L
lak611
Guest
I claim it is bad based on the “bad or improper texts” which you yourself admitted. Also, the deifficulty in singing it (can hardly get a breath).
- Status
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
I’d be interested in hearing your analysis of Michael Joncas “I Will Go Up” and his Mass setting of “No Greater Love”.
I’ve sung in a cathedral choir for 18 years and the only time we sing Haugen, Haas, Joncas et al is for diocesan events. I couldn’t tell you the last time we’ve sung Holy God We Praise Thy Name - possibly because the choir went into “revolt” because Worship III only had one refrain of “Infinite Thy vast domain, everlasting is Thy reign” whereas most of us grew up with two refrains. We insisted upon two refrains.
Funny how the congregation will sing the old hymns (you ought to hear them with Immaculate Mary - sung unfortunately only in May). It’s been my experience that my congregation will sing the older hymns but categorically refuse to sing Gather Us In, On Eagles Wings, etc.
I will acknowledge that there might be a correlation between traditional Catholic music, a downtown cathedral which any diocesan member may join, and people unhappy with Haugen, Haas, et al ? Something to think about.
M
MusicMan
Guest
You did claim it was bad measured by technical analysis. Please see post #17.
L
lak611
Guest
I was quoting somebody else who said that. I just claim bad theology and too difficult to sing.
6
6YRSHOME
Guest
So you just don’t like it. That’s your right, but there are others who do. GIA wouldn’t have published their music if it wasn’t theologicly sound. I know because a friend of mine has composed a mass and he knows what their standards are.
I don’t like the resposorial Psalms by Owen Alstott but I wouldn’t want to him banned based soley on my opinion. I know I might start a revolt if all we had to sing at mass were things written prior 1900.
Who is to say what they are going to say is “traditional” Catholic music 30 years from now. Things change, music styles change. That’s part of life. There is no point in listening to the same old songs over and over. There is no point in singing if the music doesn’t speak to you.
As a musician I am always looking forward to singing something fresh and uplifting as long as it is reverent, and in line with the readings.
I don’t like the resposorial Psalms by Owen Alstott but I wouldn’t want to him banned based soley on my opinion. I know I might start a revolt if all we had to sing at mass were things written prior 1900.
Who is to say what they are going to say is “traditional” Catholic music 30 years from now. Things change, music styles change. That’s part of life. There is no point in listening to the same old songs over and over. There is no point in singing if the music doesn’t speak to you.
As a musician I am always looking forward to singing something fresh and uplifting as long as it is reverent, and in line with the readings.
L
LilyM
Guest
I don’t know that How Great Thou Art, to take a random example
is easier to sing than Eagle’s Wings … and I’ve certainly heard the odd overly slow and utterly dirge-like rendition of the former as well as the latter.
L
lak611
Guest
GIA is not strictly a Catholic publisher. They do not publish only theologically sound Catholic music. From their site:
"Beautiful hymnals
(at the same monthly cost as disposable worship aids—or less!)
Gather Comprehensive—Second Edition
RitualSong
Gather Comprehensive
Gather—Second Edition
Worship
Gather—First Edition
Lead Me, Guide Me
African American Heritage Hymnal (Protestant-based)
Singing Our Faith (children’s hymnal)
Hymnal for the Hours
Hymnal for Catholic Students
Hymnal Supplement 1991 (Lutheran)"
giamusic.com/about.html
C
Corki
Guest
First of all that’s a very trusting attitude you have. I am less familiar with GIA but OCP has several songs and musical settings of propers that are directly opposed to the GIRM (such as the infamous sheep-less Agnus Dei) as well as theologically unsound songs. I wouldn’t automatically assign theological soundness to the songs in GIA either.
The point of singing at Mass is not to have the music speak to you.
It is to join with the congregation in speaking to God. Mass is about God, not about you. And your opinion of singing the “same old songs over and over” is against Church teaching. There have been several documents where the Vatican said exactly the opposite. We are supposed to sing the same songs over and over so that everyone can learn them and join in. We should have a whole new play list each week.
L
lak611
Guest
Eagle’s Wings is by Michael Joncas, not Haugen/Haas.I don’t know that How Great Thou Art, to take a random example
O
OutinChgoburbs
Guest
Sure they would have.
So would OCP.
What is so theologically sound about, “Tree of Life, and awesome mystery, in your death we are reborn. Though you die through all of history, still you rise with ev’ry morn, still you rise with ev’ry morn”?
How about, “Here in this place, new light is streaming, now is the darkness vanished away. See, in this space, our fears and our dreamings, brought here to you in the light of this day.” Besides, it has all the commercial aspects of a Barry Manilow song, esp. the “brought to you here in the light of this day”. I always pause and wait to hear a sales pitch after that line.
That said, my sister’s Missouri Synod parish uses lots of Haugen and Hass.
O
OutinChgoburbs
Guest
This is an actual song, not just a hymnal, and apparently our new “theme song” which is sung at the end of every school Mass (it is in Gather Comprehensive). For lack of a better term, it sounds cowboy-like. All the kids bob up-and-down when we sing it. I have to say, it sounds good (esp. second refrain a capella), is not theologically off, and other than the bobbing and cowboy-ish-ness…well, it’s not “Gather Us In” at any rate.
6
6YRSHOME
Guest
I just know that my friend had to do the responses with exact wording, and the parts of the mass had to be in line with Catholic standards.First of all that’s a very trusting attitude you have. I am less familiar with GIA but OCP has several songs and musical settings of propers that are directly opposed to the GIRM (such as the infamous sheep-less Agnus Dei) as well as theologically unsound songs. I wouldn’t automatically assign theological soundness to the songs in GIA either.
The point of singing at Mass is not to have the music speak to you.
We do sing the songs over. That has nothing to do with singing contemporary music. The congreation learns new songs rather quickly, it is usually only a few weeks before they are singing a new song with the choir.
I’m saying that we do not have to sing “How Great Thou Art” and " Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" and such every week either.
Mass is coming to worship God and partake of Him in the Eucharist. It is about worshiping Him with all our senses. I have to be there in order to do this right? The songs that we sing are to reinforce the readings, and to lift up our voices in praise. So yes it does have to speak to me.
L
lak611
Guest
The awful Mass of Creation with Bread of Life, Prince of Peace added to the Agnus Dei, against GIRM rules, is by Haugen.First of all that’s a very trusting attitude you have. I am less familiar with GIA but OCP has several songs and musical settings of propers that are directly opposed to the GIRM (such as the infamous sheep-less Agnus Dei) as well as theologically unsound songs. I wouldn’t automatically assign theological soundness to the songs in GIA either.
The point of singing at Mass is not to have the music speak to you.
L
lak611
Guest
M
mystified
Guest
I’m Catholic, don’t have the taste for H&H, and rarely have reason to attend sevices at a Lutheran church outside of funerals.
My friends who are Lutheran (Mo. Synod and independent Luth.) tell me they like to sing, but prefer the “old” songs.
My friends who are Lutheran (Mo. Synod and independent Luth.) tell me they like to sing, but prefer the “old” songs.
L
lak611
Guest
Do you know if your friends (Lutheran) churches have Haugen/Haas in the hymnals? Do their churches just choose the older hymns and ignore Haugen/Haas?
S
slyboots
Guest
Many of the Haas/Haugen hymns I also do not care for. However I very much like their psalms. They are extremely singable. And in my opinion, I feel that making the psalms simple singable songs helps me remember them throughout the week whereas more complicated melodies do not.
However, I do much prefer the beauty of “Let all mortal flesh keep silence”, “Tantum Ergo”,“Pange Lingua”,“St Patrick’s Breastplate” than “Ashes”.
However, I do much prefer the beauty of “Let all mortal flesh keep silence”, “Tantum Ergo”,“Pange Lingua”,“St Patrick’s Breastplate” than “Ashes”.
M
MusicMan
Guest
And those of us who happen to like the Mass of Creation just use the phrase “Lamb of God” for all three verses, just like the GIRM instructs us to. The Gather Comprehensive book is inconsistent on whether or not Mr. Haugen instructs the musicians to sing the non-GIRM verses, but simply using the phrase “Lamb of God” solves the whole problem.
C
Corki
Guest
That’s the sheep-less Agnus Dei. (Actually there is one sheep but four verses so three sheep-less ones.)
I think every liturgical vissive from the Vatican in the last 10 years has denounced it - not by name but denounced any song versions that change the words. Yet we still get it week after week after week …:banghead:
By the way, I really like Hass in the CD player of my car. So it isn’t really a matter of musical taste. Just please, not in Mass.
L
lak611
Guest
I agree with you. I also happen to like Audio Adrenaline and Jars of Clay, but not for Mass. I do like contemporary Christian music and Christian rock, but it does not belong in a Mass.
- Status