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asd72
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Thanks I’ll take a look.
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BListon
Guest
As a Catholic with friends from the PCUSA, I have never been thought of disfavorably by them, if anything, its the primitive baptists and pentecostals in this area that frown upon Catholics. The Presbyterians, Anglicans, and Methodists in this area are pretty chill. The pastor of my grandma and grandpas’s church (Methodist) would even quote Pope JPII ever so often.
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maltmom
Guest
I was raised in the Presbyterian church and since I don’t ever remembering Catholics being bashed I would agree with your statement. I grew up in a very, very Catholic city. I didn’t hear any anti-Catholic statements until I became Baptist.
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mark_a
Guest
I don’t think it’s location though. Check mine out.Same here. My experience has been one mainly of indifference to Catholicism. I guess it depends on where you are though. Catholics are like 4% of the population here, so we don’t get much attention from local churches
I think maybe it has much more to do with socio-economic status. Even the better educated Baptists in my area are more tolerant towards Catholics.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I think it varies from parish to parish and from person to person. I was baptised Presbyterian only because my father lost his Catholic faith, and as a means of rebellion, decided to have me baptised Presbyterian.
It was a stupid thing to do, but that was in keeping with his behaviour generally.
Anyway when I did become Christian, I first went to the Presbyterian Church as that was what I knew, having had some Sunday School as a kid.
However the first pastor I had was a Methodist by training, and he got on pretty well with Catholics. On the other hand there’s another pastor I know of (I hardly know him personally), who would be virulently anti-Catholic (he also lies, conspires and back-stabs), and would take the Westminster Confession of Faith’s statement about the Pope being that “man of perdition … the anti-Christ …” in all seriousness. So it depends on the pastor.
As far as the people are concerned, that in turn will depend on who trained them.
I do remember early on when there was a guest speaker at the Presbyterian Church. I got quite angry as I heard her speak, especially when she said, “Did you know every Catholic is afraid to die?” I was pretty disgusted with this blatant show of bigotry and outright lie, and almost walked out. The only thing that stopped me was that I was a new Christian myself at the time.
I think the pastor saw the look on my face, and he quickly brought the session to a close. She represented some missionary society, no doubt aimed at converting Catholics to the “light”.
So it varies. I don’t think we’ve got the divisional problems you have in the USA, but then we probably don’t have the enthusiasm either. Americans tend to wear their religion on their sleeve a lot more.
It was a stupid thing to do, but that was in keeping with his behaviour generally.
Anyway when I did become Christian, I first went to the Presbyterian Church as that was what I knew, having had some Sunday School as a kid.
However the first pastor I had was a Methodist by training, and he got on pretty well with Catholics. On the other hand there’s another pastor I know of (I hardly know him personally), who would be virulently anti-Catholic (he also lies, conspires and back-stabs), and would take the Westminster Confession of Faith’s statement about the Pope being that “man of perdition … the anti-Christ …” in all seriousness. So it depends on the pastor.
As far as the people are concerned, that in turn will depend on who trained them.
I do remember early on when there was a guest speaker at the Presbyterian Church. I got quite angry as I heard her speak, especially when she said, “Did you know every Catholic is afraid to die?” I was pretty disgusted with this blatant show of bigotry and outright lie, and almost walked out. The only thing that stopped me was that I was a new Christian myself at the time.
I think the pastor saw the look on my face, and he quickly brought the session to a close. She represented some missionary society, no doubt aimed at converting Catholics to the “light”.
So it varies. I don’t think we’ve got the divisional problems you have in the USA, but then we probably don’t have the enthusiasm either. Americans tend to wear their religion on their sleeve a lot more.
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guanophore
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Some of the most Catholic hating people I have met here on CAF were Presbyterian.
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smp501
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I can see that. My parents are Southern Baptists up in Greenville. When their preacher found out I had become Catholic, he basically told them that theologically there were some pretty big differences, but that I was not going to hell or anything. I have met some baptists who think the pope is the antichrist, but it seems that they are becoming a minority now. Back to the OP though, I guess Presbyterians are the same way. Sure there are fringe people like Lorraine Boettner (author of the horribly anti-Catholic Roman Catholicism), but the majority are either indifferent or treat us as just as they would a Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, etc.
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rfournier103
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Had an ex-girlfriend who was Presbyterian, and had a very low opinion of Catholicism. “That’s not in the Bible… neither is that or that… blah blah blah blah blah… I’ll never raise my kids Catholic… The Pope is just a man. I don’t need to confess my sins to ANYONE.”
Not very respectful, to say the least. My life would have been far better had she not been a part of it. I know this isn’t the view of every Presbyterian out there, but I must say she was a real winner. Also, my first real encounter with someone who was anti-Catholic. Quite an eye-opener.
Not very respectful, to say the least. My life would have been far better had she not been a part of it. I know this isn’t the view of every Presbyterian out there, but I must say she was a real winner. Also, my first real encounter with someone who was anti-Catholic. Quite an eye-opener.
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kkollwitz
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Go check out the website of my favorite Presbyterian, Ian Paisley:
**“Good morning! ** You are visitor 1,402,807 to the home page of the European Institute of Protestant Studies. The Institute’s purpose is to expound the Bible, expose the Papacy, and to promote, defend and maintain Bible Protestantism in Europe and further afield.”
ianpaisley.org/main.asp
**“Good morning! ** You are visitor 1,402,807 to the home page of the European Institute of Protestant Studies. The Institute’s purpose is to expound the Bible, expose the Papacy, and to promote, defend and maintain Bible Protestantism in Europe and further afield.”
ianpaisley.org/main.asp
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MSSheBear
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I was a Presbyterian for awhile in the PCA. In my experience sometimes the ex-Catholics would talk about being a Catholic before becoming a Christian and other times some of the Presbyterians would talk about Catholics being fellow believers. The theology of the PCA is what I would term “anti-Catholic.” But in general the most ant-Catholic Protestants are the conservative “non-denominational” Christians.:twocents:
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submariner2
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rfournier,
Why would you say it is anti-Catholic when she merely expresses her beliefs and difference of opinions? Mainstream protestant churches dont teach against the Catholic church. The only time the RCC is mentioned in my church it is favorable ie Mother Teresa and the excellent Boy Scout program.
But protestants also know that if they fall in love with a Catholic they are likely to be in a one-way relationship regarding religious practice. Whereas if they fall in love with another protestant there is likely to be much more tolerance regarding their religious life, ie
they can raise their children to respect both denominations.
Some may want to go along with the requirements of the Catholic church and some may not. So it is a good thing the lady makes her feelings known as early as possible so you dont get down the line with an unhappy ending. Right?
Rob
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Newsy
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I was raised Presbyterian, in what is now the PCUSA. There is much variance in the denomination. I didn’t hear anything anti-Catholic from the pulpit, but I heard plenty of it in Bible studies. I have a couple friends in the PCA church, they seem to hear a lot of anti-Catholic stuff from the pulpit. They did a “Bible study” on ‘The Gospel According to Rome’, it was trying to show that Catholics aren’t Christians.
Theologically, in the Presbyterian tradition, some choose to dwell on the mercy of God “predestining them”, while others choose to focus on God’s just anger at those He “predestines to Hell”. If you carry this a little further, it is reasonable for somebody with that mindset to hate anyone he believes that God hates. This sets up God in our image instead of conforming ourselves to the image of God.
Frankly, I have never been able to square the idea of predestination with God’s love or man’s free will. It seems like every discussion comes down to, “well if that is the case, then you weren’t chosen/saved to begin with” or my favorite, “God’s ways a far above our ways”. So, most conversations with my friends becomes frustrating to both sides, not at all productive.
Continue to pray for those in the PCUSA, they have chosen a very liberal/worldly path.
Theologically, in the Presbyterian tradition, some choose to dwell on the mercy of God “predestining them”, while others choose to focus on God’s just anger at those He “predestines to Hell”. If you carry this a little further, it is reasonable for somebody with that mindset to hate anyone he believes that God hates. This sets up God in our image instead of conforming ourselves to the image of God.
Frankly, I have never been able to square the idea of predestination with God’s love or man’s free will. It seems like every discussion comes down to, “well if that is the case, then you weren’t chosen/saved to begin with” or my favorite, “God’s ways a far above our ways”. So, most conversations with my friends becomes frustrating to both sides, not at all productive.
Continue to pray for those in the PCUSA, they have chosen a very liberal/worldly path.
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mark_a
Guest
This is true. I dread the day that one of my kids brings home an anti-Catholic boyfriend or girlfriend.
I can remember Presbyterian parents who were very upset to find out their daughters had taken a liking to my sons. I respect that and shared their concerns.
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maltmom
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I was Protestant throughout my childbearing years. I wouldn’t date a Catholic man. Why? Because we have no control over who we fall in love with. I didn’t want to be unequally yoked with someone that didn’t share my beliefs. I also would never have agreed to raise my children Catholic. Now that I’m Catholic I’m looking for a good Catholic man. I can’t have children, but I still want to be with someone who shares my faith.
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rfournier103
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Pretty interesting. And by that… I mean I can’t post what I really think on the forum without violating the fourm guidelines. I have never heard or read ANYTHING written by a Catholic that even comes close to the venom this ‘man’ is spewing.
I ALMOST feel sorry for him.
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rfournier103
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She had a VERY unfavorable view of Catholicism. I couldn’t even try to talk with her about religion without her getting very aggitated. Again, not saying that ALL shared her views, but she was pretty hostile to say the least. Thank you for the reply.
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submariner2
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rfourneir,
Main point is that her church did not teach her anti-Catholic attitude. I am sure of that.
But remember religion is a very personall thing. Many can get vey uptight when it is brought up particularly if the other does not agree. Catholics do this also as much as anyone else in my experience.
I have heard just as much anti protestant attitude on these forums as anti catholic. I think that is a two way street.
I generally do not bring up protestant/Catholic issues to my friends. Protestants can usually discuss differences between each other much easier. Criticism of ones religion is hard to take for some. Not for me as long as I can respond in kind but even so I have to be careful that someone might get mad. I never get mad, because I want only the truth and if something is true and can be proven I value it rather than resent it.
On forums such as this one I walk on eggs. Sometimes people get mad anyway.
Rob
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mark_a
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How?
You got that right!
I don’t think most here want you to do that. Say charitably what you have to say. So what if Catholics don’ like it.
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jwright82
Guest
I don’t know that this is the fairest way to present Presbyterians. But hating people is wrong no matter who it is. The biggest misconception about Calvinism is that we have some obsession with predestination and regect free will. We do neither, but those two subjects are the most disputed against Calvinists so we must in our defense talk more about them than other things. We would rather discuss many other things besides that but we are forced to discuss them in an aapologetical context.
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Newsy
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I don’t think it is an “unfair” way to present it. I have never been able to get a clear answer on the whole “predestination/ free will” idea. Maybe you can help. If man is totally depraved, never chooses to do any good, doesn’t choose God, but rather God chooses man, where is there room for man’s free will in this? The teaching of the Catholic Church is that God never violates man’s free will. God has fore knowledge and predestines some things, but God never “overrides” our free will. The CC teaches that we choose God, He loves all men, if some spend eternity in Hell it is because of their choice/choices, not His.
I know many Presbyterians, they are great people. I still have many friends in the PCA and PCUSA churches. Some have an attitude of, “you’re OK and I’m OK, let’s not get into anything too deep”. Others have the idea that “they didn’t choose God, He chose them” along with a sort of elitist idea of the “chosen ones”.
I know that many churches, in the Reformed and Presbyterian traditions, tend to be great students of ancient texts and zealous for scripture.
I am not condemning these churches, nor trying to label all Presbyterians, I am only trying to point out a line of thought that some hold to. If they think that God hates all those that He “predestines to Hell”, then it seems reasonable to hate what God hates. BTW, it is not a foreign idea to my friends in the PCA, but maybe they are an isolated case.
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