Have some good thoughts for me?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sharonh28
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

sharonh28

Guest
I also posted this on the Catholicesjw’s site. I do wonder why Catholics who convert to JW’s would find an eternity on this earth more attractive than an eternity with God. Anyway here is my question.

I am a cradle Catholic who attended Catholic Schools in the 1950s and 60s - through Vatican II and beyone. I have been told everything from burning in hell for the least little thing to almost no one will go to hell. It is difficult to be that bad. After 16 years of Catholic Schools, only one Theology Class in College and several little classes in my Parishes along the way, I feel that I have a general grasp of my faith. I had a friend almost 30 years ago that became a JW because the CC taught that anyone who commits suicide goes to hell. I think only God knows their souls, and their souls must be very desperate at that point. None the less, a couple of JW ladies have been visiting me for the last three weeks. I don’t want to play gotcha, but one is an ex Catholic who was very surprised when I told her (after she told me the hell, fire and damnation was too much for her) that I wasn’t so sure hell even had fire, I only know that whatever and wherever hell is - God is not there. This seemed to surprise her. They also seemed very surprised when I said that I know KNOW that I have a soul. I went as far as to say I could feel it. These ladies are very nice and I enjoy the stimulation of discussing the Bible, all the while, telling myself not to try the “I gotcha” game. I feel they will not accept literature from me although I accept theirs, but wonder if there is anything I can say that will get them thinking without the gotcha. I say this because the one lady looked so surprised when I said I was a very devout CAtholic but wasn’t so sure about the hell fire. just sure about the seperation from God. I just wonder if there is anything else like that, that especially might make a fallen away CAtholic consider what they left. thanks, sherrie
 
sharonh28 said:
I also posted this on the Catholicesjw’s site. I do wonder why Catholics who convert to JW’s would find an eternity on this earth more attractive than an eternity with God. Anyway here is my question.

I am a cradle Catholic who attended Catholic Schools in the 1950s and 60s - through Vatican II and beyone. I have been told everything from burning in hell for the least little thing to almost no one will go to hell. It is difficult to be that bad. After 16 years of Catholic Schools, only one Theology Class in College and several little classes in my Parishes along the way, I feel that I have a general grasp of my faith. I had a friend almost 30 years ago that became a JW because the CC taught that anyone who commits suicide goes to hell. I think only God knows their souls, and their souls must be very desperate at that point. None the less, a couple of JW ladies have been visiting me for the last three weeks. I don’t want to play gotcha, but one is an ex Catholic who was very surprised when I told her (after she told me the hell, fire and damnation was too much for her) that I wasn’t so sure hell even had fire, I only know that whatever and wherever hell is - God is not there. This seemed to surprise her. They also seemed very surprised when I said that I know KNOW that I have a soul. I went as far as to say I could feel it. These ladies are very nice and I enjoy the stimulation of discussing the Bible, all the while, telling myself not to try the “I gotcha” game. I feel they will not accept literature from me although I accept theirs, but wonder if there is anything I can say that will get them thinking without the gotcha. I say this because the one lady looked so surprised when I said I was a very devout CAtholic but wasn’t so sure about the hell fire. just sure about the seperation from God. I just wonder if there is anything else like that, that especially might make a fallen away CAtholic consider what they left. thanks, sherrie
Click to expand...
Hello,

I really think you hit the nail on he head, the only other thing I can add is that seperation from God had many levels so there could be fire for some, and just plain lonliness for others either way it is Hell. I can’t understand why someone would want earthly fame when they can have eternal life with Jesus and never have to die again. Catholics who leave the church are far more vulnerable to damnation than those who never been in the church. I would ask them to question you about anything they want and if you can’t answer them at the moment let them know you will get it for them.

God Bless,
Kathleen
 
if it were me, I’d ask how they could follow a religion that has had so many false prophecies. For years the JW’s predicted that Amegeddon would happen before the generation of people who were born prior to 1914 had died. Back in the 80’s, we were told over & over again that it HAD to be any day now. Fast forward all these years & that “generation” who were aware of the events of 1914 have died. Which means the JW’s are false prophets according to the Bible.

Throughout their very brief history, the JW’s have NEVER gotten one prediction right. I’d ask about that.

God bless you for wanting to help them.
 
Just a point to ponder. If one loves and experiences the Eucharist and knows what the Mass truly is and understands the sacramental life of the Church then one is Catholic. Yes, baptism initiates you into the faith. But those who claim to have been Catholic usually don’t know the first thing about Catholicsim and could have never fully experienced the Eucharist.

One last point. Pray for the JW’s. They are in a mind altering cult which is next to impossible to leave once sucked in. They brainwash those to believe that all of Christendom (false religion; Catholic and Protestants) are satanic in nature. They reject the Trinity and the hypostatic nature of our Lord. If they leave they are disfellowshipped and shunned by family and friends.

The best thing to do is what you are doing. Try to reason with them. Using Scripture is futile because they have distorted the Word so bad that they are convinced that the Word is “a god”. See their New World Translation bible John 1:1.

Good luck and my best thoughts and prayers are with you…teachccd:)
 
Yes, I have already said the “a” god thing/ And like I said their prophesies that have not come to pass are not even “gotcha” as more than even the Bible, I think they are taught on how to deal with these questions, they are not answers that make a lot of sense to me, however, they seem to think they are entirely acceptable. My friend 30 years ago and I had a conversation about the end and I told her that even in the Bible it says that “no man knows the hour or the day” Her response: “It doesn’t say you can’t know the year.”

I like the idea of asking them to ask me about my religion. I know that at one time they were very anti Catholic and probably just have a bigger anti-Christian pot now.

The other point I would like to make with them I guess is that the Bible gets its authority from Church tradition. I have even argued this with other Catholics, even one who studied for the priesthood, who needed a Bible reference for everything. I told him that without Church Tradition giving authenticity to the Bible it would be just another book.

I would really like to engage these ladies to pur forth the Catholic Faith as I am sure they have many errors in their thinking of Catholic beliefs. Thanks
 
sharonh28 said:
Yes, I have already said the “a” god thing/ And like I said their prophesies that have not come to pass are not even “gotcha” as more than even the Bible, I think they are taught on how to deal with these questions, they are not answers that make a lot of sense to me, however, they seem to think they are entirely acceptable. My friend 30 years ago and I had a conversation about the end and I told her that even in the Bible it says that “no man knows the hour or the day” Her response: “It doesn’t say you can’t know the year.”

I like the idea of asking them to ask me about my religion. I know that at one time they were very anti Catholic and probably just have a bigger anti-Christian pot now.

The other point I would like to make with them I guess is that the Bible gets its authority from Church tradition. I have even argued this with other Catholics, even one who studied for the priesthood, who needed a Bible reference for everything. I told him that without Church Tradition giving authenticity to the Bible it would be just another book.

I would really like to engage these ladies to pur forth the Catholic Faith as I am sure they have many errors in their thinking of Catholic beliefs. Thanks
Click to expand...
Hi Sharon,

I had sworn not to come back to the JW questions, but being married to one, well, they catch my attention right away. :o The JWs have books on how to answer to your Catholic reasoning. It’s hard to deal w/them because they are so well trained that unless you are a priest or a nun, they will not bother w/you because they know they will not be able to win you.

I read your new post and decided not to answer it because these people are completely prepared on how to answer you. If they do not know how to answer you, they will tell you they will talk about that later. They usually go to an elder and tell him what happened, then they are told what to say.

Another thing… they will never take your literature because it’s against their beliefs. They believe that we are all doomed and will die and never get to live on Paradise Earth. Since you have agreed to speak to them, they will try incessantly to convert you. They do not care that you believe what you believe in. They “know” you’re wrong and because you’re wrong, they are doing you a great favor by being there, talking to you about Jehovah.

About the “soul” thing, they were probably surprised that you said you could feel it. They believe your soul is simply your life. They believe life = soul. They probably thought, “well, of course you can feel it, you’re alive, aren’t ya?”

It’s hard to have a “gotcha” moment with these people. They believe you are basically possesed by the devil and he is speaking to them thru you.

As far as them being Christian, well, they aren’t. To be a Christian, you have to believe and accept the Trinity. They believe Jesus was just the human son of Jehovah, they believe he’s Michael the Archangel. The Holy Spirit is only Jehovah’s “active force”.

All you can do for the JWs is pray for them. Many, if not most, were poorly catechized Catholics (my husband included :(). They need to be prayed for so they can see they are in the hands of the devil by being in a cult (not religion) that teaches false prophecies.

May God bless you for trying to help them, but they do not want to convert back. Most die being JWs. They will be JWs even if it means dying, they’ll defend their faith at all costs, and will ALWAYS attack the CC. All of their literature attacks the CC, believe me, I have all their books. I have my husband’s books and mine (because they thought I’d become a JW). I even have their “secret” JW books that you only get if you baptize.
 
Thanks, Do you think I should just send them away or try, she did promise that she would read what I copied and printed from EXPRESSIONS OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH about our authority for the Bible - one of them was Catholic and was totally furprised when I said the absense of God is what hell is, whether firey or not. The topic thing drives me crazy and you are right, many times she has said we will get back to that later. Thanks so much for your time. sherrie
 
sharonh28 said:
Thanks, Do you think I should just send them away or try, she did promise that she would read what I copied and printed from EXPRESSIONS OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH about our authority for the Bible - one of them was Catholic and was totally furprised when I said the absense of God is what hell is, whether firey or not. The topic thing drives me crazy and you are right, many times she has said we will get back to that later. Thanks so much for your time. sherrie
Click to expand...
Sherrie,

I’m not sure if it’s a good idea to have them come every wk, but it’s probably a worse idea to have them not come. If they are willing to read your Catholic material AT YOUR HOUSE w/o telling you they’ll be back another time and discuss it, then by all means, do it. Otherwise, they will only waste your time and energy trying to show them they are wrong. You see, these people took your literature, but said they’d be back next time to discuss it. That’s their tactic. Most likely than not, they went to an elder at their congregation to ask for help on how to talk to you about this, and most likely, they got introuble for accepting your literature. They ar NOT supposed to take non-JW literature because it’s an act of apostatizing. It’s against Jehovah (well, more like, agaist the Watchtower). They always read the bible from front to back. They have 3 meetings a week, a total of 5 hrs a wk. They “study” the bible one book at a time on Tuesdays, they also study how to preach, how to introduce their Watchtower and Awake magazines, and how to refute claims against their beliefs and especially how to refute Catholic beliefs, this is all done on Tuesdays. Then, Fridays, they study a book and use the bible to back up the content of the book (every yr they use a different one, right now they are studying one called The Apocalypse, and they have a set schedule of what to read every wk). Remeber that they use the bible all the time, but they ALWAYS take it out of context. Then, Sundays they have a “public speech” in which they present a certain topic and talk to you about it, and use the bible to back up what they say, then they “study” the bible by using a Watchtower magazine article. They have a question and answer technique (in which you don’t learn anything, even a kid in 1st grade could get the answers right because they are spelled out for you in each paragraph that corresponds to each question).

They are TRAINED every wk. They train for 5 hours, and they preach for at least 16 a month. SO add it up, 5 times 4 wks equals 20, plus 16 equals 36 hrs of doing this. You are only a name, and address and an hour they submit to the elders to report to the Watchtower. You even could count as a study they give… it’s up to you if you wnat to continue talking to them, but it does you no use, unless they do as I said above. That they read your literature in front of you and discuss it there w/o them leaving and coming back another time to your house. Believe me, they will not do this. By any chance do you have “Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth”? If you don’t, you can get it off of here. You can purchase these to give away to them. This might be a good thing to give to them and try and discuss it right there and then.

The fact that they took what you give them surprises me because they are forbidden from doing so. Maybe you hit something, especially w/the part where you explained hell as you did. Probably because you planted the seed of doubt they won’t be allowed to visit you any longer. Probably if they go back, it’ll be the pioneer w/an elder just so he can EXPLAIN things to you because the pioneer did wrong.

This always happens. If you want them to visit you, well, you could still try and help them open up their eyes but most likely they will not listen. Any time they hear something agaist their religion or something that proves the CC is the true Church, they will attack you w/something which most Catholics cannot argue with BECAUSE we are not as trained as they are.

Gosh, what wouldn’t I pay to see a JW talking to a priest or to an apologist! Well, I saw my husband talking to a priest, but that was only because we went to a marraige encounter and they were exchanging jokes… anywho, I hope this helps you.
 
BTW, I had to tell 2 JW ladies to stop coming to my house to talk to me, but it took me many months to make them stop. I was tired of their constant attacks against the CC, so I told them plain and simple: “I’m happy being Catholic, and I will never stop being one”. As soon as they saw I wasn’t happy w/my husband being a JW, they stopped coming.
 
Thanks so much. When I gave the one lady the copy of our authority for the Bible. I just said. I would like to give you my understanding of the authority of the Bible, I understand that the Watchtower does not allow you to read other literature…but…I feel we could have more intelligent conversations if you could see where my starting point comes from. She told me that the WT doesn’t CONTROL them. I also mentioned that I was reading a great deal of material she has provided for me, and that in the two pages of print I was giving her, there was not one word that mentioned anything about her converting to my faith or any other subversive moves on my part. I only thought we could be more productive knowing where each of us stands on authentification of the Bible. thanks for your help. s
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top