Have the Gifts of the Spirit decreased?

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mercuriel

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In the book of Acts you read about lots of manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit, today that seems to happen less.

Have the gifts of the Spirit diminished over time? Was there a noticeable point where they started to happen less?
 
mercuriel said:
In the book of Acts you read about lots of manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit, today that seems to happen less.

Have the gifts of the Spirit diminished over time? Was there a noticeable point where they started to happen less?
Click to expand...
Below are the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Which ones do you think have diminished?

GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The seven forms of supernatural initiative conferred with the reception of sanctifying grace. They are in the nature of supernatural reflexes, or reactive instincts, that spontaneously answer to the divine impulses of grace almost without reflection but always with full consent. The gifts are wisdom (sapientia), understanding (intellectus), knowledge (scientia), fortitude or courage (fortitudo), counsel (consilium), piety or love (pietas), and fear of the Lord (timor Domini).
 
Regarding the charisms that you refer too- they were very pronounced in the early Church…and many of them were less frequent as centuries progressed…with various degrees evident at various times… one still sees them for example at work such as in the lives of Saints.

There has been a “renewal” of such “charismatic gifts” in the last 50 years in the Church such as via the Charismatic Renewal:

nsc-chariscenter.org/

nsc-chariscenter.org/about-us/other-ccr-groups/iccrs/

etc
 
That article does not represent the Roman Catholic theology in a specific way. What does the Church teach?
 
Catechism:

Charisms

799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.

800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.253

801 It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church’s shepherds. "Their office [is] not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good,"254 so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together "for the common good."255

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p2.htm#799
 
mercuriel said:
In the book of Acts you read about lots of manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit, today that seems to happen less.

Have the gifts of the Spirit diminished over time? Was there a noticeable point where they started to happen less?
Click to expand...
Hi!
…I think that you may mean the manifestation (visible signs) rather than the Gifts… the manifestations were visible signs that were to accompany the Believers to demonstrate the Coming of the Holy Spirit (as it did during Pentecost)… as the Church evolved (took shape) there was no longer a need for such visible manifestations. Yet, the Gifts (as outlined in one of the responses) have never ceased nor diminished; rather, it is man’s stubbornness and obsessions with the world (the flesh) that has hindered his response to God (just check out the general culture of today vs. history where man, even if he was not actively involved in the Faith, held respect for God and the religious).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Personally the alleged manifestations I have witnessed to date are little more than cathartic release of distressed individuals rather than the Holy Spirit.
There is of course a place for such, however it’s prudent to test spirits.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
Personally the alleged manifestations I have witnessed to date are little more than cathartic release of distressed individuals rather than the Holy Spirit.
There is of course a place for such, however it’s prudent to test spirits.
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Perhaps. I do not know what you have witnessed.

Yes with everything one must as Paul says test and hold fast to the good.

In any case the Church is very affirmative of the Charismatic Movement …every Pope since its inception etc etc.
 
Hi all, yes I meant the charismatic gifts.

So if the general consensus is that they have diminished because there is less need of them today, then that leads to this question:
  1. Why would God restore them 50 years ago in the Catholic charismatic movement if there is less need of them today?
  2. Also is it possible that most of the alleged charismatic gifts in the Catholic charismatic movement could be interpreted as hype?
Are there any Church fathers who comment on the diminishing of the charismatic gifts? I.e. tongues, miracles, healings etc.
 
mercuriel said:
Hi all, yes I meant the charismatic gifts.

So if the general consensus is that they have diminished because there is less need of them today, then that leads to this question:
  1. Why would God restore them 50 years ago in the Catholic charismatic movement if there is less need of them today?
  2. Also is it possible that most of the alleged charismatic gifts in the Catholic charismatic movement could be interpreted as hype?
Are there any Church fathers who comment on the diminishing of the charismatic gifts? I.e. tongues, miracles, healings etc.
Click to expand...
Personally I am not a fan of those charismatic movements and I believe the “tongues” they claim to talk in are fake. They claim the Church approves of the charismatic movements which is so but that does not mean the Church has said those who claim to talk in tongues are genuine. I believe they are not.
 
Most of the things mentioned, many people do not even believe happen in the first place, like tongues, healings, etc. whenever there is a story of some healing, most jump and call it a hoax, and the healings that do get approved, majority of the time, they are something that could have healed on their own, its not like anyone has had an arm or leg miraculously grow back, or something equally amazing.
 
mercuriel said:
Hi all, yes I meant the charismatic gifts.

So if the general consensus is that they have diminished because there is less need of them today, then that leads to this question:
  1. Why would God restore them 50 years ago in the Catholic charismatic movement if there is less need of them today?
  2. Also is it possible that most of the alleged charismatic gifts in the Catholic charismatic movement could be interpreted as hype?
Are there any Church fathers who comment on the diminishing of the charismatic gifts? I.e. tongues, miracles, healings etc.
Click to expand...
There is not a general consensus that they have diminished because there is less need of them today…tis rather more complicated than that.

And there have been charisms present in the Church down through the ages …see above for more.

Some thoughts for you.
  1. There is need of an more abundant activity in this area it seems today …
A. The Pope prayed for Holy Spirit to come as a kind of new Pentecost.
B. The times are rather looking more and more similar to the first centuries.
C. God willed this new outpouring.
  1. In some cases sure.
A. Even in the first centuries where were not authentic experiences. Paul notes to test and hold onto the good.
B. The Church has discerned the fruits of the Charismatic Renewal over almost 50 years now and has approved and supported it. All the Popes from Paul VI to Pope Francis have supported it etc.
  1. Yes I believe over time there was -but I do not have quotes for you.
 
mikekle said:
Most of the things mentioned, many people do not even believe happen in the first place, like tongues, healings, etc. whenever there is a story of some healing, most jump and call it a hoax, and the healings that do get approved, majority of the time, they are something that could have healed on their own, its not like anyone has had an arm or leg miraculously grow back, or something equally amazing.
Click to expand...
Yes some claimed healings are not. Sure.

But yes amazing things do happen. And as for cases of miracles that are investigated and found to be miracles -the “could have healed on its own” factor is ruled out after extreme scientific study (such as at Lourdes). And yes amazing things happen - you can discuss such with Dr. Mary Healy.

This is though somewhat off topic. So I will leave it there. For there is no question here of charisms existing.
 
mercuriel said:
Hi all, yes I meant the charismatic gifts.

So if the general consensus is that they have diminished because there is less need of them today, then that leads to this question:
  1. Why would God restore them 50 years ago in the Catholic charismatic movement if there is less need of them today?
  2. Also is it possible that most of the alleged charismatic gifts in the Catholic charismatic movement could be interpreted as hype?
Are there any Church fathers who comment on the diminishing of the charismatic gifts? I.e. tongues, miracles, healings etc.
Click to expand...
Yes granted there was a great presence of such when the Church began and in later centuries things were different in where and when such were given.

There is not a general consensus that they have diminished because there is less need of them today…tis rather more complicated than that.

And there have been charisms present in the Church down through the ages …see above for more.

Some thoughts for you.
  1. There is need of an more abundant activity in this area it seems today …
A. The Pope prayed for Holy Spirit to come as a kind of new Pentecost.
B. The times are rather looking more and more similar to the first centuries.
C. God willed this new outpouring.
  1. In some cases sure…
A. Even in the first centuries where were not authentic experiences. Paul notes to test and hold onto the good.
B. The Church has discerned the fruits of the Charismatic Renewal over almost 50 years now and has approved and supported it. All the Popes from Paul VI to Pope Francis have supported it etc.
  1. Yes I believe over time there was -but I do not have quotes for you.
 
mercuriel said:
Hi all, yes I meant the charismatic gifts.

So if the general consensus is that they have diminished because there is less need of them today, then that leads to this question:
  1. Why would God restore them 50 years ago in the Catholic charismatic movement if there is less need of them today?
  2. Also is it possible that most of the alleged charismatic gifts in the Catholic charismatic movement could be interpreted as hype?
Are there any Church fathers who comment on the diminishing of the charismatic gifts? I.e. tongues, miracles, healings etc.
Click to expand...
Hi!
The Holy Spirit has never ceased working in the Church… the manifestations such as what happened during the first Pentecost, and some of the ensuing lesser manifestations, do not occur today. The Church has had about two thousand years of development, through the Inspiration and Guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The signs were there so that people would believe… but just as the Samaritans came to Jesus because of the wonders of His Knowledge of the Samaritan woman at the well, many more were directly involved in Listening to Christ’s Word and they Believed because they were Inspired by the Holy Spirit without the need of Jesus’ searching them in-depth and demonstrating that He could read them as plain as an opened scroll.

The Gospel was being preached; the Good News raced through the old world and Believers joined the Church through the practice of Worship rather than by witnessing great manifestations.

Does that mean that there are no supernatural events occurring throughout the world? No. It just means that we do not depend on them and the Holy Spirit engages us in a less spectacular manner.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
The other week I was listening to a priest from India talk about how they prayed over a boy who died that was bit by a cobra. His heart had stopped. The doctors jad given up on him. The villagers brought him to him as he had a reputation for praying over snake victims. However, after praying over him the boy revived and recovered over the next 8h.

An acquaintance of mine had throat cancer. He was prayed over by our parish’s prayer team. His throat cancer disappeared as did his addiction to smoking.

"he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief. "

“when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
 
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