Have the jaws of hell prevailed against the church?

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RE: was Vatican 2 a wrong teaching?

I have serious questions about parts of Vatican 2 myself. Dignitatis Humanae, for example, proclaims the right of all people to religious freedom, privately and PUBLICALLY. I just re-read Dignitatis Humanae this morning, and I honest to God cannot reconcile it in my mind with the Ordinary Magisterium of the Popes PRE-Vatican 2 who all explicitly condemned such notions as “insanity” and as a “liberty of perdition”.

Moreover, religious freedom PUBLICALLY means that cults like the Jehovah’s Witnesses have the divinely-given “right” to go door to door and deceive Catholics into leaving the Catholic Faith and joining their cult, thereby endangering their eternal souls. I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness and many of my fellow JWs were former Catholics who had been pulled out of Catholicism and into the JW sect. How? Through the PUBLIC exercise of JW religious freedom.

The JWs teach lies, not only about doctrine, but also about history. They lyingly teach that the early Christian church was a doctrinally-JW church which apostasized early-on and was replaced by the “apostate” Catholic church which they claim came into being entirely by the actions of Emperor Constantine.
I was horrified when I learned that their version of Christian history is an outright lie. I do NOT believe that religious organizations should have any “right” whatsoever to spread deception, so in that regard too I have a real problem accepting Dignitatis Humanae.

I wish someone on these boards could show me HOW Dignitatis Humanae can be reconciled with the Ordinary Magisterium of the Pre-Vatican 2 popes, who ALL condemned religious freedom.

Love, Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
 
(re: Vatican II)

Bear in mind also that huge parts of V II have been blown WAY out of proportion, especially in liberal parts of the country. For example, “extraordinary ministers of holy communinion” (anyone not a priest) are technically not supposed to administer the Blessed Sacrament accept in times of emergency or perile. Likewise, mass absolution of sins, designed to be used in instances such as 9/11 (during which one brave priest was able to administer it before the tower fell) is in some areas used on entire congregations, even as part of the mass!

Vatican II is not in and of itself flawed; but the American interpretation of it often is…
 
Can I then go to the Novus Ordo Catholic Churches? I was baptized and confirmed by the traditional Catholic Church. Is that all okay?

Is my soul okay? I have searched and searched for years I like the sacredness feeling in the traditional church. I want to be one of God’s many people - not some off-shoot.

Most of the Catholic Churches in my area are Novus. The traditional Church says it is a sin to go to these. Does that mean I can never go to the traditional Church?

I recently read about Matt Tabot in Ireland. He could go to so many Churches all over the city. I want to be able to do that too.

Thanks to all who have responded. God Bless each one. 👋
 
sorry about the lower case again. hopefully the keyboard will dry out soon.

yes, you may go to a traditional mass. if you are in tacoma, there’s one that is approved by the church in seattle.
latinmass.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Seattle

here’s a little history on you current church’s situation

catholicculture.net/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1056

your current church is considered a sedevacantist church.

you can validly attend a novus ordo mass if you choose.

as far as your soul…that’s not really up for us to judge. i can tell you that the sacraments of confession and marriage need faculties which a sedevacantist church does not possess. without faculties, these sacraments are not valid. i believe the other sacraments would fall into the same category as the sspx - valid but illicit.

now, as i recall, the diocese of seattle can be a little crazy - sorry if that’s changed without my knowledge - i’d go to st. joseph’s chapel and talk to the priest there. he should be able to help you and if you are going to make the transition, it might be nice to go to a tlm at least at first because it’s familiar to you.

good luck 👍
 
On the original question, ‘have the jaws of hell prevailed against the Church?’

Did Jesus say that men in the Church would never do very bad things? Is this what he was saying when he said the gates of hell would not (prevail)? The Church has prevailed against hell because it is still here and over a billion strong.

Errors have always happened in the Church and they always will until Christ comes back. Tell the Catholic bashers who love to show Church mistakes in history to take a look at the bible. One of the first people to kick a little butt in the Church when it was wrong was St Paul. The fact that we are still here after so many mistakes is proof that the gates of hell will not prevail. The whole assumption that Popes doing bad things equates to hell prevailing is total nonsense and lacks foundation. All we like sheep have gone astray. On the plus side we have 2000 years of experience unlike (all others).

-D
 
Thank you so very much! Your information really helps. I will tell my friend and the others who aren’t so happy where we are. And, I will start going to Visitation here in Tacoma. They have Masses daily.

What a relief! Thank you!
 
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