Have the Sacramental Changes Produced the Desired Results?

[system]

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**The Roman **
Catholic Church
A sacrament is an outward sign, instituted by Christ, to give grace.

**Baptism **

Prayers, exorcisms, baptism.
Godparents hold infant.
Intention: To make the infant a
child of God. Takes away original sin.

Gives you your ticket to heaven: (sanctifying grace). Jesus taught theApostles how to baptize.

Penance

Forgives your sins against God.
Gives you strength to avoid sin
in the future.

Forgives your sins against God. Gives you strength to avoid sin in the future. Unforgiven mortal sin will send you to hell.

**Holy Eucharist **

The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, under the appearances of bread and wine.

Words of Consecration at Mass are the same one that Jesus used at the Last Supper.

Bread and wine are both blessed.

Holy Communion is placed upon the
tongue by a priest.

Tabernacle at the focal point of the church.

Signs of reverence: kneeling, genuflection.

Jesus is God.

**Confirmation **

It makes you a soldier of
Jesus Christ, helping you
to practice your Catholic
Faith without fear.

Anointing with Holy Chrism (olive oil & balsam blessed by the bishop on Holy Thursday.)

Form: I sign thee with the sign of the cross and I confirm thee with the Chrism of salvation in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

This Sacrament goes back to the time of Christ.

Slight slap is given by the bishop to show our readiness to die for our Catholic Faith if necessary.

**Matrimony **

A lifetime contract between Catholic man & woman giving them all the graces necessary for their state of life. It helps them sanctify themselves and lead their children to heaven. A lifetime contract: until death do us part.

The New Church
Since Vatican II

A sacrament is a communal sign, fashioned by people, to show faith.

Initiation

Exorcisms have been removed.
Parents hold infant.
Intention: To make the individual a member of the Christian Community. New rite for infants was approved on March 19, 1969. New rite for adults was approved on January 6, 1972.

Reconciliation

Pardons your offenses against the Christian Community. New rite authorized by the Vatican on Dec. 2, 1973 & mandated in 1977.

Pardons your offenses against the Christian Community. Many priests don’t believe in sin. Situation ethics is prevalent: as long as no one gets hurt or caught, it’s ok.

**Eucharist **

A symbol of Christ’s presence in the Christian Community. Only about 29% of Catholics today believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

New Eucharistic Prayers were written by 6 Protestant Ministers & a Mason. The New Mass (Novus Ordo Miss ae) only goes back to March 22, 1970.

Bread and wine are not blessed using the words of our Lord.

Eucharistic ministers (laity)
pass out communion in the hand.

Tabernacle off to the side.

Kneelers, a thing of the past.

**Confirmation **

Makes you a witness to Christ.

Anointing with any kind of oil.

Form: Be sealed with the sign of the Lord.

This New Sacrament goes back to
August 15, 1971.

The bishop shakes hand with
those who are confirmed.

**Matrimony **

A covenant between man and woman.
If things don’t work out, you can always get
an annulment.

Source:St Josephs (Happy Neil?)

 

[Trelow]

Either you believe that the gates of hell will not prevail, or you don’t. There is no middle ground.

Are you calling Jesus a liar and the Holy Sprit a hoax?

Each and every post of yours I have read alludes that in fact you are.

 

[manualman]

Quite obviously a SSPX member and sedvacantist trouble-maker.

I suggest you read the forum rules and either comply or leave.

Your assertions about post-Vatican II catholicism are absurd and not worth responding to.

It’s almost like you are TRYING to make the SSPX people look dumb.

 

[SeekerJen]

jtnova,

Sure, if you want to pass on lies, be my guest. Don’t expect the rest of us to believe you- we know the truth as Christ’s Church has taught us.

I think any of us who were considering learning more about your church are reconsidering- I certainly wouldn’t want to be part of a sect that attempts to pass off such lies about us and about our Holy Mother Church AND (most offensive) our Lord as truth. We all know who the father of lies is.

Sorry, if you don’t follow the authority of the Pope and the Holy Mother Church, you are not a Catholic. A Christian, perhaps, but so are Lutherans and Episcopalians. The truth hurts, but at least the people here are willing to give you that truth and not dress up lies in pretty language and twisted historical information.

 

[system]

So I guess you have no response to the watering down of the sacrements. No I attend the regular church, but I know right from wrong, and the watering down of the faith has produced people that dont quite understand the long term consequences.

As our Lord said, “beware of the wolf in Sheeps clothing” as you and your ilk, the liberal Catholic who pretends to be all holy and the like, but wants everything that the church has stood for these past centuries thrown away, are much more deadly than our true enemies. I suggest you go back and read you cathechisms on what a true sacrement is, and what truly is sin.

And by the way, every one of your posts, if this was pre-Vatican II, would have fell under the form of heresy, but the church only condemns people who hold true to the faith, and not those who disobey and make it up as they go along, like todays promotion in Texas to Archbishop.

manualman:

Quite obviously a SSPX member and sedvacantist trouble-maker.

I suggest you read the forum rules and either comply or leave.

Your assertions about post-Vatican II catholicism are absurd and not worth responding to.

It’s almost like you are TRYING to make the SSPX people look dumb.

 

[katherine2]

jtnova:

So I guess you have no response to the watering down of the sacrements. No I attend the regular church, but I know right from wrong, .

Yep, nothing more wrong than parents holding their child at baptism. Look at all the evils that resulted from that.

 

[puzzleannie]

jtnova:

Reconciliation

Pardons your offenses against the Christian Community. New rite authorized by the Vatican on Dec. 2, 1973 & mandated in 1977.

Pardons your offenses against the Christian Community. Many priests don’t believe in sin. Situation ethics is prevalent: as long as no one gets hurt or caught, it’s ok.

end quote

what the priest believes or doesn’t believe has no effect on the sacrament as long as proper form, matter and intention are used.

can’t quote your entire diatribe, but Confirmation must use chrism blessed by the Bishop in Holy Week, not “just any old oil”
the exorcisms are part of the Rites of Christian Initiation, done the 3rd, 4th and 5th week of Lent.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The changes you are refering to were changes in the Rite in which the Sacrament is celebrated, not to the Sacraments themselves. They are still as you posted in the first half of your post. The Rites have in most instances focused on some other aspect that was neglected or misunderstood in the past.