Have there ever been anti-councils in Church history?

[ajpirc]

If there have been men in the history of the Church that have claimed to be pope but were seen as false, have there ever been councils that claimed to be ecumenical and infallibly define doctrine but were also seen as false?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

There was the Council of Pisa.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Pisa

Also, earlier, there was the false Fourth Council of Constantinople, which some Orthodox to this day consider ecumenical. (There is a true Constantinople IV as well).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Council_of_Constantinople_(Eastern_Orthodox

That’s all I know of.

Edit: I thought of the Council of Trulo, and found it and two other Orthodox councils/syonds on Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinisext_Council
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Council_of_Constantinople
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_of_Jerusalem_(1672

 

[MarkThompson]

When the Council of Basel was transferred to Ferrara in 1438, some bishops remained in Basel, claimed to be continuing the true council, and elected the Duke of Savoy as Antipope Felix V in opposition to the weak Pope Eugene IV. Felix eventually renounced his claim and was made a (legitimate) cardinal.

 

[ajpirc]

Thank you for the answers.

Who decides if a pope or council is false?

 

[Just_Lurking]

Also, the Robber Council of Ephesus (see here).

 

[ajpirc]

How are we to know if a Council is true or not or even just speaking infallibly?

 

[MarkThompson]

How are we to know if a Council is true or not or even just speaking infallibly?

If you are asking about past councils, you can look in places like the Catholic Encyclopedia for these answers. If you’re asking about hypothetical future councils, it will either be fairly obvious (e.g., a “council” of womenbishops meeting in Taos, New Mexico is not a legitimate council), or else you simply wait for the judgment of history. It is extremely difficult to imagine the kind of situation arising today in which it would not be obvious whether a council were legitimate.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Thank you for the answers.

Who decides if a pope or council is false?

Generally it is possible just soberly looking at the historical facts to recognize which claimant to the Papacy was legitimately elected.

For a council to be ecumenical it must have the approval of the Pope, whether while the Council is going on (as in recent councils) or afterwards by the Pope granting his approval to the council’s decisions (as was usual with the early councils held in the East). The reason for this is that for a council to be an act of the Extraordinary Magisterium it must be speaking for the whole college of bishops. If it is separated from or even opposed to the head of that college it is unable to do so. In my opinion one of the big problems with the Eastern Orthodox ecclesial structure is they have no such clearcut way of telling whether a council is ecumenical or not.

 

[CarlosBarrera]

There is a man in Kansas who claims to be Pope. He’s trying to “start from square one.” as far as Saviour and Apostles go.

Here is a short trailer on his story:

youtube.com/watch?v=iPrbk4brhEE

 

[wisdomseeker]

There is a man in Kansas who claims to be Pope. He’s trying to “start from square one.” as far as Saviour and Apostles go.

Here is a short trailer on his story:

youtube.com/watch?v=iPrbk4brhEE

which came first? this pope or those who ellected him?

 

[corsair]

CarlosB, there was (is) one in Palmar de Troya, Spain and there was one near Spokane, WA. And there are probably more heretics scattered throughout the world that are doing the same.

 

[CarlosBarrera]

CarlosB, there was (is) one in Palmar de Troya, Spain and there was one near Spokane, WA. And there are probably more heretics scattered throughout the world that are doing the same.

I have spoken with a Palmarian one time. He used to be a seminarian in the SSPX’s French seminary.

 

[corsair]

a friend of mine had a son who was infatuated with the Tridentine Mass. When he graduated from high school he joined with the Palmarians and went to Spain to become a priest. Within 6 months he was a priest and within 9 months a Bishop and then a Cardinal.
after about 5-6 years he returned to the USA a broken young man, both in spirit and health.

Before he died two years ago he had reconciled with the church.

 

[CarlosBarrera]

a friend of mine had a son who was infatuated with the Tridentine Mass. When he graduated from high school he joined with the Palmarians and went to Spain to become a priest. Within 6 months he was a priest and within 9 months a Bishop and then a Cardinal.
after about 5-6 years he returned to the USA a broken young man, both in spirit and health.

Before he died two years ago he had reconciled with the church.

God Bless His Soul

 

[CarlosBarrera]

which came first? this pope or those who ellected him?

Actually David Bawden, now called Michael I, was one of the three present in his conclave, the other being his mother and father.

 

[MarkThompson]

Actually David Bawden, now called Michael I, was one of the three present in his conclave, the other being his mother and father.

You are forgetting his friend Teresa Benns, whom he subsequently excommunicated for heresy. I don’t think Bawden ever followed up on his promise to issue a Syllabus of Bennsian Errors, though. Too bad.