Have things where you are changed since the MP took effect?

[Catholic_Dude]

I am asking people if things relating to the Mass have changed where they live because I have been told by people that certain parishes that had reputations for mediocre NO masses have been “cleaned up” from the regular mediocre level in the past to recently a more reverent atmosphere.

Could this be the start of the mutual edification the MP envisioned? I am starting to wonder if Bishops who are not so MP friendly are sending private letters to the priests telling them to take care to maintain reverent NO masses so people wont get fed up and demand the TLM as an alternative.

Then again the reports I heard of priests taking care to maintain reverence could be a mere coincidence in regards to the MP taking effect.

 

[nobeerinheaven]

Considering there has only been one Sunday-obligation mass since the MP took effect on Sept. 14, I have to think it’s still to early to tell anything. That said, my parish’s mass last Sunday was pretty good, although I have no reason to think (thus far) that it was because of the reemergence of the TLM.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Masses here have always been reverant. We have heard nothing about having an Extraodinary Rite Mass at this parish, but 2 or 3 parishes near here have been offerring them all along. In fact, even when traveling this summer we did not see any horrible abusive Masses. I really doubt that the situation is as black as some like to paint it. Of course, I don’t live in So Cal either.

 

[markadm]

There has been no change in my home Parish; we suffer from the modern ‘music’ and it’s still upsetting. I don’t think anyone’s asked for any change though.

I admit I get so upset by it that I go into the nearest city to the Masses offered by an FSSP Priest.

 

[Jakub]

I am within the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, no further comment needed by me, and I have not read or heard that anything has been issued by the Cardinal…

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Considering there has only been one Sunday-obligation mass since the MP took effect on Sept. 14, I have to think it’s still to early to tell anything. That said, my parish’s mass last Sunday was pretty good, although I have no reason to think (thus far) that it was because of the reemergence of the TLM.

I should extend my comments to those Sundays leading up to Sep 14 as well.

I am within the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, no further comment needed by me, and I have not read or heard that anything has been issued by the Cardinal…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I am asking people if things relating to the Mass have changed where they live because I have been told by people that certain parishes that had reputations for mediocre NO masses have been “cleaned up” from the regular mediocre level in the past to recently a more reverent atmosphere.

Could this be the start of the mutual edification the MP envisioned? I am starting to wonder if Bishops who are not so MP friendly are sending private letters to the priests telling them to take care to maintain reverent NO masses so people wont get fed up and demand the TLM as an alternative.

Then again the reports I heard of priests taking care to maintain reverence could be a mere coincidence in regards to the MP taking effect.

Would you prefer a poorly done OF so that the EF would be requested?

I wonder, respectfully, if it’s occurred to anyone that the demand isn’t that great or isn’t going to be that great? Is it difficult to believe that people would prefer to attend a Mass in the vernacular to a Mass in Latin (I personally think, it’s just my opinion, that THAT it what it boils down to, people preferring their own language for Mass)?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Would you prefer a poorly done OF so that the EF would be requested?

No, I would never prefer or approve of an irreverent OF.

I wonder, respectfully, if it’s occurred to anyone that the demand isn’t that great or isn’t going to be that great? Is it difficult to believe that people would prefer to attend a Mass in the vernacular to a Mass in Latin (I personally think, it’s just my opinion, that THAT it what it boils down to, people preferring their own language for Mass)?

Sure people as a whole prefer their own language, but the problem was that Latin (which is our heritage) was virtually eradicated and deamonized which the NO was never supposed to do or imply.

One of the reasons I fell in love with the EF for the fact it has more “meat” so to speak in regards to the amount and length of prayers (The OF is basically an EF with much of the “meat” removed).
For example:Iudica Me:
Judge me, O God, and distinguish my cause from the nation that is not holy: deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man.
R. For Thou, O God, art my strength: why hast Thou cast me off? and why do I go sorrowful whilst the enemy afflictech me?
V. Send forth Thy light and Thy truth: they have led me and brought me unto Thy holy hill, and into Thy tabernacles.
R. And I will go in unto the Altar of God: unto God, Who giveth joy to my youth. … …

Munda Cor Meum: Cleanse my heart and my lips, O Almighty God, Who didst cleanse the lips of the prophet Isaias with a burning coal; through Thy gracious mercy so purify me that I may worthily proclaim Thy holy Gospel. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Lavabo:
I will wash my hands among the innocent,
and I will encompass Thine Altar, O Lord.
That I may hear the voice of praise, and tell of all Thy wondrous works. … …
I have a very strong feeling “demand” will increase when people read these prayers for them self and realize how beautiful they are. Anyone who understands even just a little bit of Spanish (like myself) can understand most of these prayers in Latin.

 

[the_phoenix]

At the indult Latin Mass parish that I attend, it appears that the amount of money in the Sunday offering is beginning to increase a bit. Normally I’ve seen it hovering within a range of $2,700 - $3,300 per week. Two Sundays ago, they managed to take in $4,400 some odd dollars. However, please note that this $4,000-ish amount might be a one-time fluke because on that particular weekend they held a special Latin High Mass at Noon on Saturday, so donations may once again return to their more normal $3,000-ish … though of course I hope for continued growth.

In any case, I’d say that an extra $1,000 for one extra Latin Mass over a weekend shows a decided interest, and this is a good thing.

~~ the phoenix

 

[JKirkLVNV]

No, I would never prefer or approve of an irreverent OF.

Sure people as a whole prefer their own language, but the problem was that Latin (which is our heritage) was virtually eradicated and deamonized which the NO was never supposed to do or imply.

One of the reasons I fell in love with the EF for the fact it has more “meat” so to speak in regards to the amount and length of prayers (The OF is basically an EF with much of the “meat” removed).
For example:Iudica Me:
Judge me, O God, and distinguish my cause from the nation that is not holy: deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man.
R. For Thou, O God, art my strength: why hast Thou cast me off? and why do I go sorrowful whilst the enemy afflictech me?
V. Send forth Thy light and Thy truth: they have led me and brought me unto Thy holy hill, and into Thy tabernacles.
R. And I will go in unto the Altar of God: unto God, Who giveth joy to my youth. … …

Munda Cor Meum: Cleanse my heart and my lips, O Almighty God, Who didst cleanse the lips of the prophet Isaias with a burning coal; through Thy gracious mercy so purify me that I may worthily proclaim Thy holy Gospel. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Lavabo:
I will wash my hands among the innocent,
and I will encompass Thine Altar, O Lord.
That I may hear the voice of praise, and tell of all Thy wondrous works. … …
I have a very strong feeling “demand” will increase when people read these prayers for them self and realize how beautiful they are. Anyone who understands even just a little bit of Spanish (like myself) can understand most of these prayers in Latin.

See, looking at the above, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE, 110%!!!
I’ve done a lot of soul searching about this and I have to say that WHAT I love in the OF is the fact that it is in my native language. I have loved what it says in my native language, and I continue to love the “noble simplicity” of it (even if the OF were in Latin, it would be more austere, which personally I don’t think is a bad thing). But set side by side, in English…well, the prose of the EF simply lifts you right into the Presence. To hear “Receive, Holy Lord, God Almighty and Everlasting this unblemished Host, which I, Your unworthy servant, offer to Thee, my living and true God” would make it difficult to hear “Blessed are you, O Lord our God, King of the Universe, through Your Goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made.” They just don’t compare. The thing is that the EF is NOT in English or another vernacular language. So you don’t HEAR that. I think if the EF were offered (scandal of scandals) in the vernacular, with a few minor changes in the pursuit of noble simplicity, at least for low or daily mass, then the faithful of the Church would beat down the doors to get to it. The OF would fade, and I don’t think it would be gradual (and I would bid it a sad, but realistic farewell, this liturgy that nurtured MY soul for so long).

I wish we’d go to this, say at St. So and So’s in South Wherever:

Sat PM: Anticipatory Mass of Sunday, 5:00 PM, Low EF (English), followed by Benediction (English, with sung Latin).

Sunday: 6:30 AM: Low Mass (Latin)
8:00 AM: Low Mass (English)
9:30 AM: Low Mass (Latin)
11:00 AM: High Mass (Latin): 1st and 3rd Sun.
High Mass (English with sung Latin 2cnd and 3rd Sun.
12:30 Low Mass (Latin)
5:30 Low Mass English

Confession: Anytime (We’ve got a priest chained in the confessional. Please do not feed him).

 

[Genesis315]

There were already a bunch of TLM indults in my state (CT) so I didn’t think there would be much more added to be honest. But the night of September 14 I knew of close to 10 EF Masses that were celebrated in parishes that never had them (some had high Latin OF Masses already) including the one I attended. There, almost no one knew when to stand, kneel, sit, etc. but the pastor said he will be having a class–(he’s helping some priests learn it as well). It was also attended by two other priests who are beginning to learn it as well as seminarian.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

There were already a bunch of TLM indults in my state (CT) so I didn’t think there would be much more added to be honest. But the night of September 14 I knew of close to 10 EF Masses that were celebrated in parishes that never had them (some had high Latin OF Masses already) including the one I attended. There, almost no one knew when to stand, kneel, sit, etc. but the pastor said he will be having a class–(he’s helping some priests learn it as well). It was also attended by two other priests who are beginning to learn it as well as seminarian.

You have got to be kidding me. A BUNCH in a small state like CT yet hardly any in most other states? Whats the secret?

I checked the population of CT and its about 3.5 million people…where do you put them all? Thats about how many are here in Oregon.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

See, looking at the above, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE, 110%!!!
I’ve done a lot of soul searching about this and I have to say that WHAT I love in the OF is the fact that it is in my native language. I have loved what it says in my native language, and I continue to love the “noble simplicity” of it (even if the OF were in Latin, it would be more austere, which personally I don’t think is a bad thing). But set side by side, in English…well, the prose of the EF simply lifts you right into the Presence. To hear “Receive, Holy Lord, God Almighty and Everlasting this unblemished Host, which I, Your unworthy servant, offer to Thee, my living and true God” would make it difficult to hear “Blessed are you, O Lord our God, King of the Universe, through Your Goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made.” They just don’t compare. The thing is that the EF is NOT in English or another vernacular language. So you don’t HEAR that. I think if the EF were offered (scandal of scandals) in the vernacular, with a few minor changes in the pursuit of noble simplicity, at least for low or daily mass, then the faithful of the Church would beat down the doors to get to it. The OF would fade, and I don’t think it would be gradual (and I would bid it a sad, but realistic farewell, this liturgy that nurtured MY soul for so long).

I wish we’d go to this, say at St. So and So’s in South Wherever:

Sat PM: Anticipatory Mass of Sunday, 5:00 PM, Low EF (English), followed by Benediction (English, with sung Latin).

Sunday: 6:30 AM: Low Mass (Latin)
8:00 AM: Low Mass (English)
9:30 AM: Low Mass (Latin)
11:00 AM: High Mass (Latin): 1st and 3rd Sun.
High Mass (English with sung Latin 2cnd and 3rd Sun.
12:30 Low Mass (Latin)
5:30 Low Mass English

Confession: Anytime (We’ve got a priest chained in the confessional. Please do not feed him).

The idea of an English EF could actually be a very real thing in the future. That is even more of a future possibility since the MP came out.

As for your claim of “hearing” the EF, are you talking about the people hearing the priest pray aloud or just having the priest pray in English?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

The idea of an English EF could actually be a very real thing in the future. That is even more of a future possibility since the MP came out.

As for your claim of “hearing” the EF, are you talking about the people hearing the priest pray aloud or just having the priest pray in English?

No, when I said “hear,” I simply meant that you don’t hear that prose, you hear it in Latin. Obviously, you hear it.

 

[Genesis315]

You have got to be kidding me. A BUNCH in a small state like CT yet hardly any in most other states? Whats the secret?

For one, the Vice President of the local seminary is big TLM supporter, so I’m sure he influences priests (he offered one of the indults). But besides that, people just seem to be more orthodox and educated around here so there’s less fear and more appreciation–we’ve got some great bishops from what I hear (I just recently moved here). Not that preference for the TLM is a measuring stick for orthodoxy or education, but outright opposition or hostility towards it usually is usually a result of a lack thereof.

Catholicism still permeates the culture here that was shaped by Irish, Italian, and Polish immigrants not to mention some German and French as well. Saints feasts and processions are still big, big events in town. I came from Florida where we really have no ethnic heritage that manifests itself in public life, so I am really appreciating this new culture.

This area also has a lot of people who appreciate the arts–I think that plays a big role in what kind of people become liturgy directors and music directors. There is no lack of skilled choirs in Gregorian chant and other forms of more traditional music. The OF are all done very reverently from what I have experienced–and as I said before, I know of a few that are ad orientam and have either a little or all Latin.

Likewise, we have a parish that is home to the St. Monica Insitute of Patristic Studies and the St. Gregory Institute of Sacred Music. Likewise, when the MP was announced some priests formed the Society of St. Hugh of Cluny and went about spreading information, getting guest speakers to come in, and training priests.

That all made a difference.

I checked the population of CT and its about 3.5 million people…where do you put them all? Thats about how many are here in Oregon.

Haha, I don’t know! And we still have beautiful rural areas and small towns too!

 

[the_phoenix]

Haha, I don’t know! And we still have beautiful rural areas and small towns too!

What with all the good news in Connecticut about so many Latin Masses, it being a haven for the arts, and scenic countryside that makes a landscape and nature photographer’s heart like mine beat faster, I’ll have to seriously look up some further info and see about vacationing in your state.

I’ve usually been journeying into the Deep South these past few years …

Awesome to hear there are some green pastures up North too!

~~ CD … er, that’s my shorthand form for “CountryDreaming,” the name I go by on the Flickr photography website … guess I’m getting carried away in travel daydreams …

~~ the phoenix

 

[otjm]

You have got to be kidding me. A BUNCH in a small state like CT yet hardly any in most other states? Whats the secret?

I checked the population of CT and its about 3.5 million people…where do you put them all? Thats about how many are here in Oregon.

The percentage of Catholic population to the whole is much higher there than it is here.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

No, when I said “hear,” I simply meant that you don’t hear that prose, you hear it in Latin. Obviously, you hear it.

You mean the elegant and “old English” style of prayers as they are in the English side of the missal? Those already exist as you already know and the TLM has them and preserved that style. I must be missing something here.

For one, the Vice President of the local seminary is big TLM supporter…
But besides that, people just seem to be more orthodox and educated around here so there’s less fear and more appreciation–we’ve got some great bishops from what I hear (I just recently moved here). …

Catholicism still permeates the culture here…

Well it looks like I might be moving to Connecticut in the upcoming years. On a more serious note however I have talked with some seminarians over when I live and some said they are eager to learn the TLM so I still have high hopes.

 

[mystified]

In the Diocese of Barney…I mean, Orange???

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The percentage of Catholic population to the whole is much higher there than it is here.

That is a good point, but even then the only thing that explains a “bunch” are the Bishops who are open to the TLM.