Have We Been Too Harsh with the Muslims Here?

[Augustine3]

In the last week or two there have many multiple threads on Islam. In one way or another there have been accusations in each of these threads that Islam is a religion of violence, conqueror and intolerance. I am the first to admit I have accused them of such things! Now I’ve been thinking, Protestants accuse us of worshipping Mary. We Catholics argue that we don’t and we show them references for this. Protestants claim the way we pray and act are what leads them to believe we worship Mary even though we Catholics say we don’t.

Have we been doing the same with the Muslims in this forum? We accuse them of certain things but they deny them and provide references to support their responses. The Muslims in this forum seem to be genuine. Are we Catholics guilty?

 

[jeffstudio]

Hi Augustine:

I read a reportedly honest review of the Bible and the Qur’an called Brothers Kept Apart by Walter Phillips. You can read the discussion at BrothersKeptApart.com

He found harmony between the teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an, but no harmony between Christian and Islamic religious traditions. Therefore, you may not have been harsh enough on Islam, but you must tread carefully with criticizing the Qur’an without examining the evidence.

 

[MartinJordan]

In the last week or two there have many multiple threads on Islam. In one way or another there have been accusations in each of these threads that Islam is a religion of violence, conqueror and intolerance.

I for one did not participate in that thread nor find anything fruitful when people say Islam is a religion of violence. I take Muslims (those who come to CAF atleast) word for it that Islam is peaceful as much as I am disgusted of so called Muslims persecuting and murdering Christians, attacking Churches .

I am the first to admit I have accused them of such things! Now I’ve been thinking, Protestants accuse us of worshipping Mary. We Catholics argue that we don’t and we show them references for this. Protestants claim the way we pray and act are what leads them to believe we worship Mary even though we Catholics say we don’t.

Our accusations against Muslims are more defending Christianity than anything else I feel. Meanwhile Protestants who believe Catholics worship Mary are simply overreacting imo. And we protecting the Church’s teaching because we believe the Holy Spirit guides the Church. I don’t think Catholic ever here in CAF react with anger against Protestants. It’s a different kettle of fish.

Have we been doing the same with the Muslims in this forum? We accuse them of certain things but they deny them and provide references to support their responses. The Muslims in this forum seem to be genuine. Are we Catholics guilty?

Not really. However, once the “accusations” start, I find some Muslims start quoting the Bible and ignorant of what the passages mean and try to find fault with Catholics. :tsktsk:

MJ

 

[dronald]

You may be right in saying that Protestants over react when saying Catholics worship Mary, but I’m sure when we do it it’s out of concern. I don’t think Catholics worship Mary, I’m sure some have taken it too far and I’m sure even fellow Catholics would call out their brother for such an act.

I don’t think we’re harsh on Muslims here, I really don’t. I think we’re harsh on Islam. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean that we need to be aggressive but we do need to be bold and tell the truth. The truth is that Jesus Christ died on that cross and was not removed, He payed for our sins and is the Son of God. These are things we cannot hesitate to claim and we can use history to back up these claims.

I love Muslims, I love them so much. I don’t love Islam.

 

[Jenny35]

Have those of you that are defending Islam (not Muslims, but Islam itself) actually read the Koran? Because I have and under no circumstances can it be called a book of peace.

 

[St_Francis]

So apparently there are a few major parts of Islam, and a couple of them are more warlike than the rest.

In addition, there are the peaceful parts of the Koran, and the bellicose parts…

So Islam seems to be not monolithic, bit with a good portion of believers amd beliefs supporting violence, lies, etc. So it’s a difficult situation.

 

[Ontheway]

The Muslims who visit this forum come here not learn about Christianity, but to explain to us that we are wrong. They cite the Koran extensively in an effort to prove that we are Kufur, ie infidels.

They have no interest in hearing about the Holy Trinity or the divinity of Christ. They have never heard of the beatitudes and will never ask. But they will insist that we study the Koran.

Some of them contribute to sunniforum.com, a Muslim discussion group. I encourage you to take a peek inside. You will be mildly astonished at what you read.

Do we treat our guests too harshly? They seem to be ill mannered guests who insist on forcing their views on us. If this was your home, how long would you tolerate that?

 

[F_Ferdous]

The Muslims who visit this forum come here not learn about Christianity, but to explain to us that we are wrong. They cite the Koran extensively in an effort to prove that we are Kufur, ie infidels.

I don’t recall having done anything as such.

 

[MartinJordan]

You may be right in saying that Protestants over react when saying Catholics worship Mary, but I’m sure when we do it it’s out of concern. I don’t think Catholics worship Mary, I’m sure some have taken it too far and I’m sure even fellow Catholics would call out their brother for such an act.

Ive never doubted protestants when they say (however unfortunate it is taken by over reacting Catholics ) that Mary should not be worshiped. Because I do believe as you say they do it out of concern. Thank you for your confidence in Catholics that we will call out on Mary worship if it is really that!

I don’t think we’re harsh on Muslims here, I really don’t. I think we’re harsh on Islam. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean that we need to be aggressive but we do need to be bold and tell the truth. The truth is that Jesus Christ died on that cross and was not removed, He payed for our sins and is the Son of God. These are things we cannot hesitate to claim and we can use history to back up these claims.

I love Muslims, I love them so much. I don’t love Islam.

You bet. I have a true personal experience that showed me Muslims are kind and generous and protective people. At the same time, I must defend my Faith from ignorance.

MJ

 

[Ontheway]

Have those of you that are defending Islam (not Muslims, but Islam itself) actually read the Koran? Because I have and under no circumstances can it be called a book of peace.

Oh Jenny,

You went to the trouble of reading the Koran and you find something there you don’t like? This is simply because the book has not been interpreted for you in a proper manner. Islamic scholars will help you with this. Without them you will remain in darkness.

There is a recent convert to Islam who has similar misgivings about the book. An imam on the Islamic forum explained to her that she should stop thinking and just repeat verses from the Koran. Of course, the verses are in Arabic and she knows no Arabic. This is how it is supposed to work. Just listen to the melody of the verse and keep repeating.

This is authentic. I could not make up a story like this.

 

[F_Ferdous]

They have no interest in hearing about the Holy Trinity or the divinity of Christ. They have never heard of the beatitudes and will never ask. But they will insist that we study the Koran.

I am actually quite interested, to be honest. I’ve regularly attended church the past one year and gone on multiple retreats as part of the Rutgers University Catholic Students’ Association. I’ve read the Bible cover to cover and participate in interfaith dialogue. And yes, I have heard of the beatitudes and we’ve been informed of them by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well. I only insist those on studying the Qur’an who seem to have scant misinformation regarding it to clarify them.

 

[F_Ferdous]

Some of them contribute to sunniforum.com, a Muslim discussion group. I encourage you to take a peek inside. You will be mildly astonished at what you read.

Why so?

 

[F_Ferdous]

There is a recent convert to Islam who has similar misgivings about the book. An imam on the Islamic forum explained to her that she should stop thinking and just repeat verses from the Koran. Of course, the verses are in Arabic and she knows no Arabic. This is how it is supposed to work. Just listen to the melody of the verse and keep repeating.

This is the very definition of a faux Imam. The Qur’an has been given to us Muslims for our Guidance. How can we be guided by something without any understanding of it?

 

[Ontheway]

Ive never doubted protestants when they say (however unfortunate it is taken by over reacting Catholics ) that Mary should not be worshiped. Because I do believe as you say they do it out of concern. Thank you for your confidence in Catholics that we will call out on Mary worship if it is really that!



You bet. I have a true personal experience that showed me Muslims are kind and generous and protective people. At the same time, I must defend my Faith from ignorance.

MJ

As Our Lord said: I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Do we treat our guests too harshly? They seem to be ill mannered guests who insist on forcing their views on us. If this was your home, how long would you tolerate that?

Thank you for that pointing out. Very true.

I am sick and tired of people walking on eggshells around Muslims in fear of offending their feelings.

 

[R_C]

In one way or another there have been accusations in each of these threads that Islam is a religion of violence, conqueror and intolerance. …] Now I’ve been thinking, Protestants accuse us of worshipping Mary. We Catholics argue that we don’t and we show them references for this. Protestants claim the way we pray and act are what leads them to believe we worship Mary even though we Catholics say we don’t.

Have we been doing the same with the Muslims in this forum? We accuse them of certain things but they deny them and provide references to support their responses. The Muslims in this forum seem to be genuine. Are we Catholics guilty?

No

The protestants making such claims don’t know what they are talking about, but we do

Are we perhaps lacking in tactfulness and charity? One may to some degree say yes, but is truth ever offensive?

I mean when the Holy Father made that notorious remark about what was new other than violence, a cry of sorrow arose from all over and clear evidence was given to the world that the Pope (or rather that Byzantine emperor) was so mistaken…in the form of dead threats to the Pope and Christians in general, churches being shot at, firebombed, and burned to the ground, extremist organization issuing joint declarations of terror, and the martyrdom of a nun…

I think we should consider what true tolerance is, and when is it that prudence and charity must end or else become hypocrisy…

 

[MartinJordan]

I am actually quite interested, to be honest. I’ve regularly attended church the past one year and gone on multiple retreats as part of the Rutgers University Catholic Students’ Association. I’ve read the** Bible cover to cover** and participate in interfaith dialogue. And yes, I have heard of the beatitudes and we’ve been informed of them by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well. I only insist those on studying the Qur’an who seem to have scant misinformation regarding it to clarify them.

Then don’t use Biblical verses out of context. Thank you.

MJ

 

[Ontheway]

I am actually quite interested, to be honest. I’ve regularly attended church the past one year and gone on multiple retreats as part of the Rutgers University Catholic Students’ Association. I’ve read the Bible cover to cover and participate in interfaith dialogue. And yes, I have heard of the beatitudes and we’ve been informed of them by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well. I only insist those on studying the Qur’an who seem to have scant misinformation regarding it to clarify them.

Hi Ferdous,

Since you are not the only Muslim visiting CAF, you should not read my comments as a personal criticism of you. In fact, I have argued elsewhere that your knowledge of Islam and Christianity could be put to better use on an Islam forum. Some of the folks there would benefit from you insights.

Many Muslims who visit here start out by telling us that the Holy Bible has been corrupted, that Christ in not the Son of God, and so forth. This is blasphemy and can not be tolerated. I suppose you would be unhappy to hear that Mohamed is not a prophet but a warlord who conquered some rival tribes, took some parts of the Old and the New Testaments, mixed them up and added some apocryphal stories to make up the Koran, a book that has many version and was written down in a script that can be read in many different ways. And what about this business of praying to a meteor?

Statements such as these are both offensive, and not difficult to make. I think you would agree that they would not be the best way to start an interfaith dialogue, but this is what we often get here. And then we Christians debate among ourselves whether we are sufficiently polite with our guests. We are not a bad lot.

Stick around. I have learned a lot from you and maybe you can learn from us.

 

[Ontheway]

This is the very definition of a faux Imam. The Qur’an has been given to us Muslims for our Guidance. How can we be guided by something without any understanding of it?

Do you read the Koran in Arabic?
If so, are you able to understand all of it, or do you need to refer to scholarly explanations?

 

[drac16]

The Muslims who visit this forum come here not learn about Christianity, but to explain to us that we are wrong. They cite the Koran extensively in an effort to prove that we are Kufur, ie infidels.

They have no interest in hearing about the Holy Trinity or the divinity of Christ. They have never heard of the beatitudes and will never ask. But they will insist that we study the Koran.

Some of them contribute to sunniforum.com, a Muslim discussion group. I encourage you to take a peek inside. You will be mildly astonished at what you read.

Do we treat our guests too harshly? They seem to be ill mannered guests who insist on forcing their views on us. If this was your home, how long would you tolerate that?

Well, that’s quite a false accusation. I’m a student of comparitive religion; I love learning about different faiths. I rented a copy of the Bhagavad Gita from my local library… do you really picture me rubbing my hands together, reading that book and giggling to myself “Wonderful! now I know how to corrupt the hindus! I’ll just take this and use it against them!”. If so, I kinda feel sorry for you, because, believe it or not, I believe there’s more to life than petty quarrels. Besides, the entire concept of “converting someone” is stupid; I can’t make someone convert any more than I can raise the dead.

If you still aren’t convinced, you can take a look at my posting history. I haven’t been here long, but I have posted in threads outside the ‘non-catholic religions’ section. I think catholics and myself can come to a lot of agreements regarding the evils of homosexuality and abortion, so I look forward to participating in threads like that in the future.