Have you been celibate for a LONG time?

[SoledadLuLu]

It’s uncanny SoleDadLuLu, but your situation is almost identical to my wife except that in my opinion her mom did not take wonderful care of her - even in the physical sense.

WOW…That is ODD! I will call her my spiritual twin.

This also sounds very similar to my wife’s mother. Maybe there is a connection between a mother’s love and affection towards her daughter and a woman’s desire (or lack thereof) for intimacy with the opposite sex.

I disagree with this. I love my children and am very affectionate with them, and they know that they are loved.

As far as a woman’s desire (or lack there of ) for intimacy with the opposite sex, sorry, but that comes from a male/father figure. There must be a trust developed within that relationship that is never broken if a child is to grow up trusting the opposite sex. If a female child is sexually molested/raped by a male/father figure, She carries with her a full suitcase of guilt, shame, anger & hurt that is very difficult to empty. Or if a woman is raped…To trust her husband in all affairs of marriage, but especially sexually, is the most difficult, painstaking slow process, that some women never achieve freedom. Sometimes, it is just not possible to overcome and it is just better not to have sex.

I think distracted posted that she was “forced upon” and this is most likely why she chooses to be celibate. Forgive me Distracted if I am putting words in your mouth. See her quote below:

Hmmm… wanna get together?? Just kidding… but i think it is SO cool that you are a virgin… I always thought it would such a gift to marry one… even though i am not one myself (i had it forced on me years ago… )

I hope, and pray Distracted, that you will find the courage to heal. May God be with you in your Journey…

 

[JReducation]

What do you mean? People make the commitment for many reasons… I know a man who has been celibate for many years… and he is not a Christian… so obviously, not everyone makes the decision “for the kigndom”… Maybe you meant that they should, not that they DO… (?). With me, it is both…

Again, you seem rather rigid here… like there is only ONE way to look at celibacy…

Just my two cents…

We have to distinguish here. Maybe that’s why we’re not communicating. In Catholic rhetoric celibacy has only one meaning: a life that is voluntarilly, knowing and totally consecrated to God for the sake of the Kingdom. It involves a vow that can be either private or public.

A person who lives a celibate life because they are not married has not made a commitment to celibacy. He or she leaves the doors open to the possibility of marriage.

The person who embraces celibacy through a vow, closes the posiility of marriage for as long as the vow is in effect. This can be for a period of time or for life.

For example, I mentioned in one of my posts a ministry called Madona House. They are lay men and women, but they make a vow of celibacy for life. There is no turning back. It is a private vow that can be dispensed by the bishop alone. It is not a public vow like that made by members of religious orders. Nonetheless, it is a vow and the Church requires that it must be for the sake of the Kingdom. It must be volunatary. The person must have full knowledge that this is permanent.

In another example, gay, widowed, divorced and single Catholics are called to live a celibate life, but they are not called to make a vow. Their celibacy rises out of the circumstances. The Church encourages them to accept their celibate state as a means to sanctification.

What I was talking about in my post, is the vow of celibacy that lay people, religious and priests make. The Church has a very rigid requirement here. It must be for one reason only, Love of the Kingdom. They church will not accept the vow for any other reason. Your observation above was 100% correct. It is very rigid, because the Church is very rigid in its theology regarding a vow of celibacy.

Does that make it clearer? Two kinds of celibacy: consecrated celibacy and celibacy by circumstance. Not the same in the eyes of the Church.

**Can. 1191 §1. A vow, that is, a deliberate and free promise made to God about a possible and better good, must be fulfilled by reason of the virtue of religion.

Can. 1193 By its nature a vow obliges only the person who makes it.**

As you can see by the canons, if a vow, whether it’s celibacy, poverty or obedience, has to be for a better good. In Perfectae Caritatis Vatican II defined the better good for vow of celibacy as the Kingdom of God.

Any other situation that imposes celibacy on a person is not a vow and should be embraced with love, but is not binding in the same degree that a vow is.

JR

 

[distracted]

This also sounds very similar to my wife’s mother. Maybe there is a connection between a mother’s love and affection towards her daughter and a woman’s desire (or lack thereof) for intimacy with the opposite sex.

Wow… that kinda blew me away…

I have analyzed this mother-daughter thing (what i thought was) to death… but i never thought of this…

It is like you are saying that the less the mother loves the daughter, the more the daughter wants to connect with a man?

My father was OK… (in some ways he was beyond OK)… and i always had a lot of affection for him, even when he wasn’t being so great a father…(he tended to be a little “distant”)… because i always felt that he meant well… whereas, with my mother… I don’t know what to say…

 

[distracted]

if a woman is raped…To trust her husband in all affairs of marriage, but especially sexually, is the most difficult, painstaking slow process, that some women never achieve freedom. Sometimes, it is just not possible to overcome and it is just better not to have sex.

I think distracted posted that she was “forced upon” and this is most likely why she chooses to be celibate.

No, you are totally wrong on this one (though i can understand your logic)… Over the years of my celibacy, i have been working on my issues… (anger against men, etc.) and been going to Mass as often as possible, etc… God has given me a completely different attitude toward men and physical intimacy… (hate the s-word… )… I feel my virginity has been “restored”… particularly in the sense that i see things in that area in totally different light…
I choose to be celibate because by God’s laws, i have no choice… (don’t wnat to commit fornication)… But even if it weren’t for God’s laws, i see how harmful fornication is… and don’t believe in hurting myself anymore. I used to be rather self-destructive… which IS a result ofthe “force”… (and other things…)… But when i realized how much Jesus cared and how He would never leave me (though i leave Him… )… well, i got over a lot of that self-destructiveness…
God bless.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

"SoledadLuLu:

As far as a woman’s desire (or lack there of ) for intimacy with the opposite sex, sorry, but that comes from a male/father figure. There must be a trust developed within that relationship that is never broken if a child is to grow up trusting the opposite sex. If a female child is sexually molested/raped by a male/father figure, She carries with her a full suitcase of guilt, shame, anger & hurt that is very difficult to empty. Or if a woman is raped…To trust her husband in all affairs of marriage, but especially sexually, is the most difficult, painstaking slow process, that some women never achieve freedom. Sometimes, it is just not possible to overcome and it is just better not to have sex.

You might be right about that. I think the father plays a huge role in the development of his daughters. I am a father of four beautiful girls. I am very aware of the importance of my involvement in their lives.

I also have four sisters. They all married men that had some good qualities that my father possessed. One sister married a practicing Catholic (my dad is a practicing Catholic), one sister married a man with a stable job (my dad was a good provider), one sister married a handy man (my dad is a handy man), and one sister married a man who desires to please her (my dad desires to please my mom).

Of course they also all married men who also share some of my dad’s not so good qualities. I am very aware that my dad has had a very deep impact on my sisters selection of spouses. I pray that my daughters will chose the right qualities of mine (understanding that it is probably inevitable that my bad qualities may come out in the selection process as well) when chosing a spouse. I have my work cut out for me.

It is like you are saying that the less the mother loves the daughter, the more the daughter wants to connect with a man?

That’s not exactly what I had in mind. I think more accurately it is the less the daughter feels loved by the daughter the more likely she is to connect with a man - preferably someone like her father (whether or not that father is a positive influence or not).

When girls become teenagers I think there is a natural tendency for girls to feel less love from their moms. And then naturally they draw closer to a man with traits similar to her father.

Of course this becomes more complicated when the mother actually doesn’t love the daughter.

But then again - I’m no expert nor do I claim to be. I can only go by what I observed frommy own upbringing and other women I know of that I have come in contact with throughout my life.

 

[SoledadLuLu]

No, you are totally wrong on this one (though i can understand your logic)… Over the years of my celibacy, i have been working on my issues… (anger against men, etc.) and been going to Mass as often as possible, etc… God has given me a completely different attitude toward men and physical intimacy… (hate the s-word… )… I feel my virginity has been “restored”… particularly in the sense that i see things in that area in totally different light…
I choose to be celibate because by God’s laws, i have no choice… (don’t wnat to commit fornication)… But even if it weren’t for God’s laws, i see how harmful fornication is… and don’t believe in hurting myself anymore. I used to be rather self-destructive… which IS a result ofthe “force”… (and other things…)… But when i realized how much Jesus cared and how He would never leave me (though i leave Him… )… well, i got over a lot of that self-destructiveness…
God bless.

Distracted, I am glad that you feel restored. Again my apologies for speaking for you.

That’s not exactly what I had in mind. I think more accurately it is the less the daughter feels loved by the daughter the more likely she is to connect with a man - preferably someone like her father (whether or not that father is a positive influence or not).

Well, its kind of universal, at least to those that I have met in therapy. It seem they all suffer from “If my own mother does not love me…no one else will” rendering themselves unlovable. This is carried with them for a long time, and they seek out love in lots of ways that are wholly detrimental. Wholly, I mean physically, spiritually and mentally.

Distracted, you are most fortunate, to have progressed in your healing. Continue to look to Jesus, he is the one who can heal.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

That’s not exactly what I had in mind. I think more accurately it is the less the daughter feels loved by the daughter the more likely she is to connect with a man - preferably someone like her father (whether or not that father is a positive influence or not).

Oops. I had a typo. I meant to say the less the daughter feels loved by the mother.

 

[Salonika]

I can’t help but wonder if , when u get too old to have children, you will regret not having more of them while u had the chance…? .

Can only speak for myself as someone who has never had children as is now too old to have them– I don’t regret not having children. Sometimes when I look at parents who have a close relationship with their children, I think it would be great to have that.

But my good sense soon reasserts when I start thinking that a good relationship is largely the result of good parenting and I have to recognise again how much being a good parent would have stretched me.

I am not convinced by people who say “the ability to parent well would have come as soon as you had given birth” I’ve seen too many times when this has not happened. The psychological health of children is too important to take this risk. To have a child say “you didn’t want me” or “you shouldn’t have children” and know that they are correct would have been too much of a burden for me to carry.

 

[KingAlfred]

I would like to know what your opinion is of celibacy, after having been celibate for a long time (over 10 years)…

I would like to know if you plan to remain celibate for the rest of your life - or maybe you are only celibate because you haven’t met the right person or whatever…

I would rather be alone than with the wrong person… but i also believe that, as the Bible says, it is not good for man to be alone…

thanks

I’m involuntarily celibate, and hate it. But, my only alternative is to commit adultery, which I won’t and can’t do. In the grand scheme of things, however, it’s probably for my own good. I was never able to cope with the emotional after-effects of sex. They always tormented me and caused me to make bad decisions.

 

[distracted]

I think more accurately it is the less the daughter feels loved by the mother the more likely she is to connect with a man - preferably someone like her father (whether or not that father is a positive influence or not).

Not true… that very last sentence… From what i have read in the field of psychology, a woman (or man even) usually chooses someone who is the most like the parent he/she had the most problems with. That is because the person is trying (sub-consciously) to re-do what went wrong and make it better “this time”… I know this to be true because of my own situation. My mother never loved me and still doesn’t and never will (took me long enough to figure that out ) she may be incapable of loving anyone (though she seems very possessive of some family members… but that’s not love). No… i shouldn’t have said Maybe… I feel she is incapable of love…

When girls become teenagers I think there is a natural tendency for girls to feel less love from their moms.

i don’t agree… I actually wanted to bond with my mother MORE while going through adolescence and early adulthood… but she would not have it…

naturally they draw closer to a man with traits similar to her father.

No… I think they find men who are like (again) the parent they had the most trouble with… I nevefr thought that was very true until i took pen and paper and wrote out all the character traits of the men i was attracted to or involved with… (I’ve been celibate for many years now, so a lot of them were just those i was attracted to, never got invooved with… cause God was looking out for me… ). Anyway it was amazing how much like my mother these guys were… Amazing and very scary… :hypno:

 

[distracted]

I’m involuntarily celibate, and hate it. But, my only alternative is to commit adultery, which I won’t and can’t do. In the grand scheme of things, however, it’s probably for my own good. I was never able to cope with the emotional after-effects of sex. They always tormented me and caused me to make bad decisions.

so you are married andcelibate?? Hmmm…

I assume u are a man?? What kind of emotional after-effects… (or is it personal??). I know of women’s after-effects but don’t know much about men’s…

You mean…

Men actually have emotions about sex?? cool…

 

[Conservative]

Unless you enter a religious order - be it the priesthood, sisterhood or monastic life - you don’t “plan” to be celibate. God has created us with natural desires - which we must keep in tow until (if and when) we marry.

Today’s society laughs at that theory. Ever shop for a new car? Tell them you’d like to test-drive a new model - for one week - with the promise to return the car undamaged - without signing any papers or putting up cash…They will laugh in your face ! I’m worth MORE than a Lamborghini (sp?) - and I won’t be test-driven! So, don’t let Society convince you of the wrong thing.

Some of us just end up not being lucky enough to find the “right one” - or maybe God had other plans for us. But in the event you have decided just not to marry - don’t let ANYONE tell you that you’re wrong or out-of-step. It’s a shame that we have to be afraid to mention in public that we are “celibate” if single - out of choice not to live a loose life. Sadly, they just don’t get it. Keep up the good work - and if you’re looking for a partner, keep looking - and ask God to assist in the search for His choice for you.

God bless you in the search - and don’t let the celibacy thought dominate your thoughts. Good luck!

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

Not true… that very last sentence… From what i have read in the field of psychology, a woman (or man even) usually chooses someone who is the most like the parent he/she had the most problems with…

I sure hope you’re wrong. My wife had serious problems with her mother. Of course the term “usually” implies “in most cases” and perhaps my wife chose someone that doesn’t fit in the “usually” category. I bet I do share some of her qualities though.

distracted:

…My mother never loved me and still doesn’t and never will (took me long enough to figure that out ) she may be incapable of loving anyone…

I strongly disagree with you on the point I have bolded. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that your mother never loved you and that she still doesn’t. But to say that she never will love you is a slap in the face of God’s ability to transform people. She might be incapable of loving anyone, but only God knows if she actually is incapable of loving anyone. Pray for her daily. Never underestimate the power of God’s grace!

distracted:

…I actually wanted to bond with my mother MORE while going through adolescence and early adulthood…

I’ll take your word on that. Being a man, I can only respond via observation and not actual experience.

 

[SoledadLuLu]

From what i have read in the field of psychology, a woman (or man even) usually chooses someone who is the most like the parent he/she had the most problems with. That is because the person is trying (sub-consciously) to re-do what went wrong and make it better “this time”… I know this to be true because of my own situation. My mother never loved me and still doesn’t and never will (took me long enough to figure that out ) she may be incapable of loving anyone (though she seems very possessive of some family members… but that’s not love). No… i shouldn’t have said Maybe…

While this is sadly very very true, Distracted, but through your healing, more than likely you would choose someone who is totally opposite of your mother. You would choose someone who is able to love you.

I can relate to having a Mother who is incapable of love. Mine is that way. It is difficult at times…but there is no greater motherly love than that of our Spiritual Mother Mary. Rely on her, she will love you unconditionally and help you through times of suffering.

 

[distracted]

Ever shop for a new car? Tell them you’d like to test-drive a new model - for one week - with the promise to return the car undamaged - without signing any papers or putting up cash…They will laugh in your face ! I’m worth MORE than a Lamborghini (sp?) - and I won’t be test-driven! So, don’t let Society convince you of the wrong thing.

yes, it is odd that society puts such a low value on sex… (and the result of sex, a child)… I also have learned though Jesus that i am worth more than “a Lamborghini”… Very tragic that i didnt learn a long time ago…

God bless you in the search - and don’t let the celibacy thought dominate your thoughts. Good luck!

I don’t… I just get tired of having no one to talk to… I can live without sex… but God says It is not good for man to be alone… (especially for years and years and years…)…

 

[distracted]

While this is sadly very very true, Distracted, but through your healing, more than likely you would choose someone who is totally opposite of your mother. You would choose someone who is able to love you.

one thing is for sure… I can see now, when a man does not love me… I could see b4 also… more or less… but i ignored what i saw… i pretended, believed what i wanted - NO - needed to - believe…

I don’t expect a man to love me like Jesus (and others in Heaven) love me… but, well …it would be nice if i could find one who is at least capable of acknowledging that i am… well, of the human species… or something… (?)

I can relate to having a Mother who is incapable of love. Mine is that way. It is difficult at times…but there is no greater motherly love than that of our Spiritual Mother Mary. Rely on her, she will love you unconditionally and help you through times of suffering.

Yes, i have found this to be true… I have this book on how Mary speaks to a priest named Fr. Gobbi. Have you heard of him?? Anyway, that book has this power to make me feel very close to Mary… At first i questioned whether Mary would talk to one person like that… over so many years… but when i read w ht she says, i am sure it is really her… An awesome book…

 

[distracted]

As you can see by the canons, if a vow, whether it’s celibacy, poverty or obedience, has to be for a better good. In Perfectae Caritatis Vatican II defined the better good for vow of celibacy as the Kingdom of God.

it is a “better good” to be celibate simply for the reason that one doesn’t want to hurt oneself getting intimate with the wrong person… Your definition seems to be very impersonal… though i admit i may be misunderstanding.

I guess what i am saying is that celibacy is celibacy no matter what the reason or main reason. I am celibate because, for one thing, i don’t want to commit fornication & i don’t wnat ot commit fornication because it is against Christ and also it is agianst me… The whole reason God says fornication is wrong is because it hurts people… even when/if they don’t see that it does… It hurts long and short-term… usually both… and is anti- holy matrimony…
i oculd not be celibate just for some “kingdom”… but if i know that God made this “rule” becaue He loves me, that is different…

I guess it is about the same thing… more or less…

 

[distracted]

i would like to know if anyone has been celibate for a long time but is not particularly liking it…

I like it sometimes and dislike it at others, which i am sure is the answer most people would give…

I think the main reason i am not married is because i am psychologically “damaged”… & not many men would be able to deal with it…

but then, men are psychologically damaged too… & God knows that i couldn’t handle them either… ’

 

[KingAlfred]

I would like to know what your opinion is of celibacy, after having been celibate for a long time (over 10 years)…

I would like to know if you plan to remain celibate for the rest of your life - or maybe you are only celibate because you haven’t met the right person or whatever…

I would rather be alone than with the wrong person… but i also believe that, as the Bible says, it is not good for man to be alone…

thanks

Yes. No. No.

 

[distracted]

Yes. No. No.

so, you plan to remain celibate for the rest of your life??

Hmm… that means you haven’t been celibate for very long…

I am only half kidding…

I liked it for the first 50 years… but the 2nd 50…

again, just kidding… but only halfway…