Have you done any research on Genesis 9:6 translation to use against abortion?

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Missian_Alyssa

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Have you done any research on Genesis 9:6 translation of “man in man” aka “human in human” to use against abortion?
On the authority of R. Ishmael it was said: [He is executed] even for the murder of an embryo. Whence do we know all this? — Rab Judah answered: The Bible saith, And surely your blood of your lives will I require;4 this shows that even one judge [may try a heathen].5 At the hand of every living thing will I require it: even without an admonition having been given;6 And at the hand of man: even on the testimony of one witness;7 at the hand of man:8 but not at the hand * of a woman; his brother: teaching that even a relation may testify. On the authority of R. Ishmael it was said: [He is executed] even for the murder of an embryo. What is R. Ishmael’s reason? Because it is written, Whoso sheddeth the blood of man within [another] man, shall his blood be shed.9 What is a man within another man? — An embryo in his mother’s womb.*
Talmud Sanhedrin 57b
come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_57.html
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Genesis 9:6
Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB)

6 Whoever sheds man’s blood in man, his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God is man made.

this is the nearest English translation, I could find so far.

Does anyone know, whom is behind this Jubilee Bible?
I can not find translators names anywhere and that makes me nervious about using it.
 
I wish I could contribute an answer, but just want to say that I think this is a very interesting question.
 
Missian_Alyssa said:
Have you done any research on Genesis 9:6 translation of “man in man” aka “human in human” to use against abortion?

Talmud Sanhedrin 57b
come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_57.html
Click to expand...
If everyone in the world was following the laws of God, then abortion would not happen. However, we know that the world is fallen as Satan is the “god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4) and so unjust things will happen (and abortion falls into that category).

Should the law demand that she carry her pregnancy through (so the child could be adopted) what is going to stop her from doing something to herself that would ultimately kill the baby anyway??

And for that matter, you would have to paint women that drink or do drugs during pregnancy with the same brush.
 
Dave_Noonan said:
Maybe you should get a different Bible 🙂
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the translation of man is ruddyand in Gen. 2:7 speaks about a living soul.

A *soul * = the animal principle only

It did not yet have God’s image (spirit) until it was put into the garden in Gen. 2:8 - therefore it could not have been a human man.
 
"Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. For your lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning; of every beast I will require it and of man; of every man’s brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image. "
  • Genesis 9:4-6 (ICSB - RSVC2E)
" Ver. 6. Shed. God had not subjected Cain to this law of retaliation, as he was the first murderer, and the earth was unpeopled. H.—Here he declares, that it is just to inflict such a punishment on the offender. M.—Judges are hence authorized to punish murderers with death. C.—The general law, thou shalt not kill, admits of exceptions, and forbids killing by private authority, or out of revenge. H.—The blood of your lives, may signify the blood on which your life depends; or, according to the Rabbin, it is a prohibition of suicide, which one would think is so contrary to the first law of nature, self-preservation, as to require no prohibition; and yet, to the scandal of philosophers, some have written in its defence! H."

“9:6 his blood be shed: Murder is a crime against the sanctity of human life, and man is held fully responsible for the destruction of that life (CCC 2258). Homicide thus merits the stiffest penalty: capital punishment (Lev 24:17). The Lord can delegate to men, whether individuals (Num 35:19) or states (Rom 13:4), the judicial authority to avenge wrongful deaths. However, according to OT standards, a policy of strict proportion (one life is taken for one life lost) must be observed; otherwise, a single homicide might spark an ongoing blood feud that leaves many persons dead as a result.”
(ICSB commentary)

I don’t think the passage is specifically talking about abortion only. It is talking about murder in general of which abortion is a specific case of. God is requiring the lifeblood of any man or animal who takes the lifeblood of man. Of course abortion fits into this category. The location of a murder should not make any difference to its morality. Its just as wrong to kill under a tree as it is to kill under an umbrella. Or to kill in a woman.
 
dmwessel said:
the translation of man is ruddyand in Gen. 2:7 speaks about a living soul.

A *soul * = the animal principle only

It did not yet have God’s image (spirit) until it was put into the garden in Gen. 2:8 - therefore it could not have been a human man.
Click to expand...
“Man” and “red” come from the same Hebrew root, but they don’t mean the same thing. Many words in Hebrew can be derived from the same root but can have quite divergent meanings.

There’s no “soul” per se in the Old Testament. This idea is comes into Christianity via Greek philosophy.
 
dmwessel said:
the translation of man is ruddyand in Gen. 2:7 speaks about a living soul.

A *soul * = the animal principle only

It did not yet have God’s image (spirit) until it was put into the garden in Gen. 2:8 - therefore it could not have been a human man.
Click to expand...
Genesis 1

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 **So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; **fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Genesis 9

6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made man.
7 And as for you,** be fruitful and multiply**;
Bring forth abundantly in the earth
And multiply in it.”

Last I checked, Chapter 9 is after chapter 2 and chapter 1 is before chapter 2.

A text out of context becomes a pre-text.

:rolleyes:
 
fisherman_carl said:
I don’t think the passage is specifically talking about abortion only. It is talking about murder in general of which abortion is a specific case of. God is requiring the lifeblood of any man or animal who takes the lifeblood of man. Of course abortion fits into this category. The location of a murder should not make any difference to its morality. Its just as wrong to kill under a tree as it is to kill under an umbrella. Or to kill in a woman.
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I think we all agree it speaks of all mankind. But, a literal reading would include the unborn.
 
dmwessel said:
I

Should the law demand that she carry her pregnancy through (so the child could be adopted) what is going to stop her from doing something to herself that would ultimately kill the baby anyway??

And for that matter, you would have to paint women that drink or do drugs during pregnancy with the same brush.
Click to expand...
Last, I checked murder is against the law. So, making a law that one can not murder the most helpless makes sense.

The argument that one is going to sin or break such a law is a non-argument really because it would not justifly doing away with other laws. If one breaks a law then there is a pentality. “Everyone drives 120 on the freeway – should we not pull them over?”

Your part about drugs and booze is a red herring. Stay on topic please. thanks.

Maybe, a law making it illegal to sell booze to a pregrant woman in a bar would make sense – that would make a good discussion for another thread.

Please, stay on topic. Thanks
 
Missian_Alyssa said:
Genesis 1

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 **So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; **fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
Click to expand...
Sorry I haven’t been getting notices that people had written anything, which is strange.

In Gen. 2:7 it is merely a soul (translated as ‘the animal principle only’), devoid of God’s image. It only got God’s image when God put it into the garden in Gen. 2:8.

In the verse you quoted “he created he him” (as in one). Then in the rest of the verse, one becomes two (male and female).

When God wanted to “make a helpmeet for Adam”, Adam (one) then left the garden and gave birth to Eve (one becomes two). After that Adam is mentioned as being male; all of the female genes had been pooled into her. It says that “God closed up the flesh”- meaning that Adam was no longer capable of producing offspring, it was a one time event.

That means that man in Gen. 2:7 was dual-sexed (an it) when it was put into the garden
.
Genesis 9
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6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made man.
7 And as for you,** be fruitful and multiply**;
Bring forth abundantly in the earth
And multiply in it.”
Click to expand...
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” (Matt. 5:43-48
Last I checked, Chapter 9 is after chapter 2 and chapter 1 is before chapter 2.
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A text out of context becomes a pre-text.
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:rolleyes:
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They’re not in chronological order.
 
Missian_Alyssa said:
Last, I checked murder is against the law. So, making a law that one can not murder the most helpless makes sense.

The argument that one is going to sin or break such a law is a non-argument really because it would not justifly doing away with other laws. If one breaks a law then there is a pentality. “Everyone drives 120 on the freeway – should we not pull them over?”

Your part about drugs and booze is a red herring. Stay on topic please. thanks.

Maybe, a law making it illegal to sell booze to a pregrant woman in a bar would make sense – that would make a good discussion for another thread.

Please, stay on topic. Thanks
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Let me try and put this a little simpler for you…not everyone follows the Bible…so in that case the only thing that is going to change things is to push for a “law” that makes babies “viable human beings” while in-utero.

If a woman is determined to have an abortion, she will find a way…but if such a law was passed it would discourage a lot of abortions.
 
Dave_Noonan said:
“Man” and “red” come from the same Hebrew root, but they don’t mean the same thing. Many words in Hebrew can be derived from the same root but can have quite divergent meanings.

There’s no “soul” per se in the Old Testament. This idea is comes into Christianity via Greek philosophy.
Click to expand...
Man only got *God’s image * in Gen. 2:8 - so what was man before it got God’s image in Gen. 2:7.

Gen. 2:7 says that man was merely a soul - so then “what is a soul without God’s image?”
 
Perhaps only canonical translations matter? Perhaps these “trump” Jewish versions, in terms of coming from divinely inspired text?

See newadvent.org/bible/gen009.htm which has Greek, English, and Latin, and notes on the Hebrew from the translator.
 
dmwessel said:
Man only got *God’s image * in Gen. 2:8 - so what was man before it got God’s image in Gen. 2:7.

Gen. 2:7 says that man was merely a soul - so then “what is a soul without God’s image?”
Click to expand...
Not sure what translation you’re reading, but there’s no “soul” in the Old Testament.
 
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