Have you encountered a problem with lack of Advent in Protestant churches?

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Speaking as a Lutheran pastor I, too, lead our congregation in celebrating Advent. I do get some grumbling from people who want to begin singing Christmas hymns beginning on Advent 1, but we have held the line. The only thing that concerns me is that people of that mindset probably don’t get all that they should out of the sense of anticipation that is so much a part of Advent.

Of course, we in the Church are fighting a very difficult battle when popular culture starts flinging Christmas at us months ahead of time.
 
In many…if not most…Friends Meetings…advent is a “cultural celebration” of our greater Western culture…and is given no more mention than a “passing thought” formally. Some Friends do mention the season when they are let to “vocal ministry”…but it usually is in conjunction to drawing out attention that there are many children still seeking “room in the inn” and that the weather is less than hospitable for those who “have no room”.
 
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Have you encountered a problem with lack of Advent in Protestant churches?
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I belong and participate in a Protestant church.

We have no “lack” of Advent.

We embrace the church season.
With paraments and ecumencial lectionary readings.
With the 4 Sundays with the 4 themes.
With an Advent wreath - with the 4 candles and the large, white on in the middle.
With Advent hymns.

And yes, I’m Protestant. And the congregation I am registered at legally is affiliated with a Protestant denomination.

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It is so good to hear that some hold fast to Advent. I so appreciate personally the season of Advent, the waiting, the anticipating. As a church musician, I begin practicing for Advent and Christmas easily a month ahead, and I can listen to Christmas music anytime. It bothers me, though, to see Christmas used as ‘draw’ in stores before Hallowe’en!! The commercial aspect of Christmas, in my mind has no place in our churches, and, to me, it seems this is one time where the Church in its own quiet way can say to the world, we will wait, prepare - spiritually, prayerfully, and celebrate Christmas when it arrives - at the birthday of the Christ child. Christmas Day is the FIRST of the twelve days of Christmas, not the last. It is in those 12 days FOLLOWING Christmas Day when the pageants, parties , etc. should be taking place. Personally, I do practice what I am ‘preaching’ - tree and family gatherings are forthcoming, and it has made all the difference! I appreciate being able to go to church the 4 weeks of Advent to escape the insanity of the frantic ‘Christmas’ mentality that seems to push many into a panic and frenzy. I dread even going to the store for necessities! And parking!!! Read the Christmas story, listen to the WORDS of the Christmas hymns. They speak of peace and calm and stillness and joy. Advent liturgy and hymns are to help prepare and quiet our mind and heart, and encourage us to do and be better as we begin the new church year. In a world of commercials, sales ploys, unending Christmas lists, credit card bills, etc., we NEED 4 weeks (at least!) to prepare for what Christmas is really meant to be, and for Whom.

I just think that those who don’t celebrate Advent as Advent are really missing out. If it is something that takes some getting used to, I suggest that it is something WORTH getting used to. Pastors who don’t hold fast to Advent, in my mind, are cheating their parishioners out of a sacred and holy experience that only truly comes one month every year, and is equally as important as Christmas itself, and that they have passed up an opportunity to be a teacher, a true leader. It is far easier to ‘give in’ to what the world says is right. We choose our battles. I think fighting to preserve Advent in our churches - ALL churches - is one worth fighting. Imagine a world that slows down for 4 weeks to prepare for the birth of our Savior.

On that note, I encourage us all to enjoy and reflect these last few days of Advent. Improving the world around us begins with improving ourselves. We are the only Bible many will ever read.

Peace, God bless, and Merry Christmas!
Linda
 
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To the opening poster…**

IF you are an official, registered member of the congregation volunteering your gifts as a member of that faith community, THEN I think you have a “right” to state what should and should not be done. But even there, every congregation has it’s “chain of authority” and ways to resolve disagreements - rarely is one given unaccountability and absolute lordship in their area of ministry.

IF you are a hired employee, then I think you need to do what you are told to do. If you cannot do so, resign. But it would be good to speak with your superior, humbly, and see if some resolution can be made. But ultimately, we are to be submissive to the authorities. It’s what an employee does.

When I was a kid and teen, I OFTEN worshiped AS A GUEST in the congregations of others. My mommy told ME that a guest respects the home of another - and submits to the rules, practices, whatever of that home. If they feed me liver for dinner, my mommy told me to eat at least some of it and find SOMETHING in the meal to praise and to thank the cook for ALL of it. It matters NOT if I like liver or not - I am a GUEST. I hope you get my point… You are not only a paid employee with a boss, but you are a GUEST in the congregation of OTHERS. They WILL have customs, traditions, practices different than your home. Remember what St. Paul tells us and give no offense. IF you CANNOT do that, have the courtesy to resign your job and stop being a guest there. Giving them LOTS of notice and helping them find a replacement (if they so permit).

That’s MY $0.01

Pax
  • Josiah
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AmericanJosiah said:
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To the opening poster…**

IF you are an official, registered member of the congregation volunteering your gifts as a member of that faith community, THEN I think you have a “right” to state what should and should not be done. But even there, every congregation has it’s “chain of authority” and ways to resolve disagreements - rarely is one given unaccountability and absolute lordship in their area of ministry.

IF you are a hired employee, then I think you need to do what you are told to do. If you cannot do so, resign. But it would be good to speak with your superior, humbly, and see if some resolution can be made. But ultimately, we are to be submissive to the authorities. It’s what an employee does.

When I was a kid and teen, I OFTEN worshiped AS A GUEST in the congregations of others. My mommy told ME that a guest respects the home of another - and submits to the rules, practices, whatever of that home. If they feed me liver for dinner, my mommy told me to eat at least some of it and find SOMETHING in the meal to praise and to thank the cook for ALL of it. It matters NOT if I like liver or not - I am a GUEST. I hope you get my point… You are not only a paid employee with a boss, but you are a GUEST in the congregation of OTHERS. They WILL have customs, traditions, practices different than your home. Remember what St. Paul tells us and give no offense. IF you CANNOT do that, have the courtesy to resign your job and stop being a guest there. Giving them LOTS of notice and helping them find a replacement (if they so permit).

That’s MY $0.01

Pax
  • Josiah
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There isn’t anything you have said that I have not already thought about. Trust me, I am praying about the situation in which I find myself. I asked the pastor, before taking this position several months ago if she observed Advent as Advent, because I know it is something that truly matters to me. She said, at the time, that she did, and proceeded to tell me that she and her husband attended Catholic Mass on occasion, which was not an issue for me, but, I felt we shared a mutual respect for our Faiths. With that understanding, I accepted the position as organist/ pianist. Her actions have not corresponded with her words. In a sense, I feel betrayed. Telling me I had no right to ‘impose my Catholic values’ on their church by expecting her to adhere to how she led me to believe she would observe Advent was upsetting. I had made it very clear BEFORE taking this position how important this was to me. Maybe it is something to work on for next year. But, certainly, it is something I need to continue to pray about. For now, though, I plan to put it behind me and celebrate and enjoy Christmas as it is meant to be.

Thank you.
 
O.S.Luke said:
I can only speak for myself, but this Methodist pastor celebrates 4 Sundays of Advent, and Twelve Days of Christmas, beginning December 25th.

If folks want to sing Christmas hymns, why not have an Evensong service? That’s certainly an Anglican and Methodist thing to do. But lets not buy into the world’s rush into Christmas.

It would be helpful if someone would write some more decent Advent hymns, though…
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Hey, Rev., I hear that the Orthodox have some good Advent hymns. 😉

In Christ,
Andrew
 
LindaSK said:
I guess it’s just that my (name removed by moderator)ut always mattered before. I either chose the hymns based upon the scripture readings or worked with the pastor to plan services/Masses. I truly feel ‘put in my place’. For the first time, it doesn’t feel like a music ministry, but a job. In all my years and in all the churches I’ve played in, I have never felt this way. And I feel like I’m cooperating in liturgy that is really wrong. When I started here, I had asked this new pastor how she felt about observing Advent as such. She led me to believe she would observe it appropriately. She and her husband even choose to go to Mass when they vacation in Canada. So, I am am disappointed and upset by this. The world does Advent badly. Christian churches should feel obligated to get it right, beginning with their pastor.
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When I was in the Presbyterian Church, the words “Advent” and “Lent” weren’t even mentioned to the best of my memory. As a result I am still partly Protestant in that regard, in that I regard Christmas and Easter as the high points and the rest as merely pointing to them.

The business of ordinary Sundays, Pentecost etc. didn’t rate a mention.

My problem is living like a Christian day by day, ordinary time or special season making no difference. I’m not a great fan of the liturgical year.

Personally if you feel strongly enough about it, I’d suggest you drop out of the Methodist service rather than raise ill feelings between you and the pastor / congregation and by extentsion give them more reasons to feel negative towards the Catholic Church. Of course you can get as involved as you like within the Catholic Church.

At one stage I thought about trying to join in with my wife’s Baptist Church with my guitar (pretty basic I might add), but my old Presbyterian (actually ex-Methodist) pastor’s warning, “I think you might have trouble with the Baptists” kept coming to mind.

So I haven’t made much effort, and only go to her church on occasion.

You’re not going to change them, I can assure you.
 
Incidentally in our Catholic Church, we have the opposite position. Our paid music coordinator is Protestant…

He’s a good bloke, easy to get on with, pretty popular with our singers (on those occasions when we use singers), and by and large he does what the priest wants. The last priest specialised in liturgical studies, as well as being a musician by vocation, so the coordinator felt he got plenty of support. The new priest has a good singing voice, but he’s not a liturgical specialist. I sometimes think the music should be supported more.

In our case however the Catholic way is rubbing off on the coordinator. He’s from an AOG background, but has been crossing himself for some time, and while he doesn’t take communion, he once said to me that he found the Catholic way of doing things was beginning to gain a foothold.

However I still think we could learn a lot from the Protestants in two areas - their willingness to experiment and their usually better sermons (aka homilies). My old pastor could really preach, and if there’s one thing I don’t much admire about the Catholic Church, it’s the rather substandard homilies. Another priest I spoke to, a specialist in medieval church history (and who did give homilies with a bit of meat) admitted to me “That’s something the Catholic Church has struggled with for a long time.”
 
I’m a little confused by the original post. I was raised in an evangelical/Pentecostal church, and had never heard of Advent until I was an adult, and then it was because I saw an Advent calendar for sale. Would you mind explaining what, exactly, the pastor did that was wrong or inappropriate? I read the original post three times, and still can’t figure out what she & the OP are fighting over, other than 1-2 songs that apparently do or don’t belong in a certain Sunday before Christmas.

I thought I was doing well by learning that Advent was the 3-4 weeks before Christmas, and now it appears there are a bunch of songs that you either must sing or must not sing (I’m still not sure which) on precise Sundays before Christmas. Sigh. The world seems divided into Christians who have never heard of Advent, and Christians who take its existence so for granted that they can’t explain its ins & outs.

(And how is that blasted calendar supposed to work, anyway?)
 
Le_Cracquere said:
I’m a little confused by the original post. I was raised in an evangelical/Pentecostal church, and had never heard of Advent until I was an adult, and then it was because I saw an Advent calendar for sale. Would you mind explaining what, exactly, the pastor did that was wrong or inappropriate? I read the original post three times, and still can’t figure out what she & the OP are fighting over, other than 1-2 songs that apparently do or don’t belong in a certain Sunday before Christmas.

I thought I was doing well by learning that Advent was the 3-4 weeks before Christmas, and now it appears there are a bunch of songs that you either must sing or must not sing (I’m still not sure which) on precise Sundays before Christmas. Sigh. The world seems divided into Christians who have never heard of Advent, and Christians who take its existence so for granted that they can’t explain its ins & outs.

(And how is that blasted calendar supposed to work, anyway?)
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For a brief rundown on Advent, see the following.

catholicism.about.com/od/holydaysandholidays/p/Advent.htm

For an explanation of the liturgical year, see the following. If you get hold of an old missal from a second hand book shop, you will see a chart of years A,B &C for a ten year period.
Over a 3 year period, the Bible readings cover most of the Bible (the nuts and bolts of it anyway - I don’t think Numbers would be covered in too much detail for example).

fisheaters.com/time.html

Exactly what songs are most suited for Advent and Christmas I’ll leave to the experts. No doubt Carols are the most common, but I for one am sick of hearing them, even though I’ll be playing a few tonight. Every political Tom, Dick and Harry has a Carols night these days, but for all the songs about Christ, our society continues to become more un-Christian with every passing year.

Like I said in an earlier post, as a former Protestant, I’m not a great fan of the liturgical year. For a lot of Protestants (other than Anglicans, and maybe Lutherans and a couple of others), it would seem confusing at first. However if you go through RCIA, the Parish Priest should give you a brief rundown on the liturgical year, the different colours he might wear for Advent, Lent, Ordinary Sundays and so on.
 
Le_Cracquere said:
I’m a little confused by the original post. I was raised in an evangelical/Pentecostal church, and had never heard of Advent until I was an adult, and then it was because I saw an Advent calendar for sale. …

(And how is that blasted calendar supposed to work, anyway?)
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I’m a born and raised Catholic (Roman rite). I don’t remember a year that I have not had an Advent calendar.

They’re great fun! Sometimes, you get an Advent calendar that behind each door is a little piece of wrapped chocolate.

The Advent calendar works like this.

Starting with December 1st, you open the little “door” on the calendar that has the number “1” on it. Behind the door is a picture or some text that is specific for that date.

On December 2nd, you open the little “door” on the calendar that has the number “2” on it. Same thing… behind THAT door is a picture or some text that is specific for that date.

Note – the pictures or text behind each door are picked by whichever company designed and manufactures that particular Advent calendar.

The “fun” part is if you have an Advent calendar that has a lot of detail on the graphics… so much so that it’s rather tough to actually FIND the #1 door… and the #2 door, etc.

Some years it’s taken me about 20 minutes just to find the #1 door! :rolleyes:

The last door is #25. Behind it is most likely a graphic of the Nativity scene.

Hope that helps?

P.S. My sister and I now mail an Advent calendar to each other every year. We now live in different states. This year, she sent a VERY simple one to me. Has a cartoon of bears and such on it. The one that I sent to her is VERY complicated. Got it at the Borders Bookstore. I think she got mine at the Hallmark card shop.
 
Le_Cracquere said:
I’m a little confused by the original post. I was raised in an evangelical/Pentecostal church, and had never heard of Advent until I was an adult, and then it was because I saw an Advent calendar for sale. Would you mind explaining what, exactly, the pastor did that was wrong or inappropriate? I read the original post three times, and still can’t figure out what she & the OP are fighting over, other than 1-2 songs that apparently do or don’t belong in a certain Sunday before Christmas.

I thought I was doing well by learning that Advent was the 3-4 weeks before Christmas, and now it appears there are a bunch of songs that you either must sing or must not sing (I’m still not sure which) on precise Sundays before Christmas. Sigh. The world seems divided into Christians who have never heard of Advent, and Christians who take its existence so for granted that they can’t explain its ins & outs.

(And how is that blasted calendar supposed to work, anyway?)
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La Cracquere, the discontinuity is this →

think of it as if Thanksgiving had songs particular to Thanksgiving. About turkeys and dressing and cranberry sauce.

But you’re singing those songs during the hot days of Summer. WAYYYYYY before Thanksgiving.

It’s a disconnect because Thanksgiving songs aren’t appropriate when your mind is on the 4th of July picnic food!

Hope that helps?
 
Le_Cracquere said:
I’m a little confused by the original post. I was raised in an evangelical/Pentecostal church, and had never heard of Advent until I was an adult, and then it was because I saw an Advent calendar for sale. Would you mind explaining what, exactly, the pastor did that was wrong or inappropriate? I read the original post three times, and still can’t figure out what she & the OP are fighting over, other than 1-2 songs that apparently do or don’t belong in a certain Sunday before Christmas.

I thought I was doing well by learning that Advent was the 3-4 weeks before Christmas, and now it appears there are a bunch of songs that you either must sing or must not sing (I’m still not sure which) on precise Sundays before Christmas. Sigh. The world seems divided into Christians who have never heard of Advent, and Christians who take its existence so for granted that they can’t explain its ins & outs.

(And how is that blasted calendar supposed to work, anyway?)
Click to expand...
The word ‘Advent’ means ‘to come to, or approach’. Liturgically, it is the 4 weeks preceding the Christmas season, celebrating the birth of Christ, which does not BEGIN until Christmas Eve, with Christmas Day being the FIRST day of Christmas through Epiphany, the day the Church celebrates the arrival of the wisemen in Bethlehem, on Jan. 6, being the TWELFTH day of Christmas.

The stores and the commercial world would have us believe Christmas officially begins around Thanksgiving, with its presence seen in stores shortly after school begins! The ‘world’ gets it wrong. Churches should use Advent as a season of preparation and anticipation in order to properly appreciate and celebrate the birth of Christ December 25 through Jan. 6, or, in some Rites, through Candlemas Day Feb. 2. We shouldn’t be tired of Christmas music and ready to take down the tree and decorations by Dec. 26. We should be watching and waiting and be anxious to hear and sing the music, and listen to the Nativity story on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, and the rest of the upcoming Christmas season. Dec. 26 should not be just a day of recuperation and after-Christmas sales. It should be filled with the same joy and excitement as Christmas Day itself. That can only be possible if we prepare properly and wait for Christmas, hence the season of Advent. We are called to be in the world, not of the world. My original post includes an article from the Methodist Board of Discipline that speaks very well to the intrusion of Christmas on Advent.

Advent hymns should be sung during Advent, Advent liturgy read, and Advent candles lit. Christmas decorations should not be put up in churches either after the last Sunday of Advent, or, a glimpse of them after the pink(rose) candle is lit the third week of Advent. Christmas hymns, pageants, liturgy should wait until Christmas. Entering church on Christmas Eve should evoke different emotions than the Sundays of Advent did. It should be truly special - from the vestments to the decorations and the liturgy and the music. It is the birthday of Jesus!! They are two distinct seasons. Just as churches wait to sing the Easter hymns on Easter Sunday, the same should be done at Christmas.

When a woman learns she is pregnant, there is the time before the arrival of the baby to prepare, not just physically, but emotionally, mentally, and spiritually for the day the baby is born. The excitement, hopefully, does not end the day after the baby is born, but has only just begun. So, also, should it be with the birth day of our Savior. The feeling on Christmas Day should be that “It has arrived!!”, not, “Thank goodness it is over.”

In this hectic world, I am grateful that the Church provides the seasons of Advent and Lent as seasons of reflection and reconciliation.

May the awe and wonder of the Christmas season which begins tonight be with you through the rest of the season into the New Year.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=iUbCbT4Yuog&feature=related

This is one of my favorite Advent hymns, ‘Come, Thou long Expected Jesus.’

Parents awaiting the birth of a child are said to be ‘expectant.’ This conjures, at least in my mind, joyful anticipation. In its most elementary form, that is what Advent is all about.
 
I have a friend who is a Pastor in a conservative branch of the Presbyterian Church. His parish does advent…and lent…and a form of stations of the cross…and has a crucifix during lent as well…pretty liturgical really.
 
O.S.Luke said:
A good Methodist hymn, written by Charles Wesley. Wish he’d written more Advent hymns!
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This refers to ‘Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus.’ I heartily agree!! Wesley was a prolific hymn writer - good stuff, too!! Sadly, though, not much for Advent, but this one really nails it for me!

Merry Christmas!!

[A little off the track, I know, but I made a quick run to the grocery store first thing this morning. Great time to shop there - everyone must be grabbing after Christmas specials at the mall!!! I wished a “Merry Christmas” to the first guy I saw coming out of the store. He said, “It’s over! YEAH!!!” I said, “No, it’s just begun!” He just gave me a very strange look. But, to me, that is why Advent is so important. We just put up our tree Christmas Eve. Through the Christmas season I make ornaments for it, after I’ve made everyone else’s Christmas gifts. It evolves through the Christmas season! Oh - I wished the checkout lady a ‘Merry Christmas’, too. She got it, and returned the greeting!! Try it and see what kind of reactions YOU get!]
 
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