Have you ever heard of the teaching called the "carnal christian"?

[Daniel_Marsh]

Based on 1 Corinthians 3:1-4, some of us protestants believes that a christian who is saved, he walks according to the nature of the world will still make it to heaven because Christ’s blood covers all his unrepented sins.

gotquestions.org/carnal-Christian.html peacemakers.net/unity/carnal.htm
fwponline.cc/v18n1brush.html
soundofgrace.com/feb99/carnal.htm
google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=carnal+christian

Most of us protestants emphasize the Lordship of Christ and view the carnal christian as being “unsaved” Eph 2:10 Afterall, if one is truly born of the spirit, then they will seek to follow christ and walk in holiness.

 

[Fidelis]

The natural outcome of the OSAS error. If there are no consequences for your sins after acceptingJesusasyourpersonalLordandSavior, why sweat it?

It is totally unbiblical, and has arguably led multitudes to perdition.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Based on 1 Corinthians 3:1-4, some of us protestants believes that a christian who is saved, he walks according to the nature of the world will still make it to heaven because Christ’s blood covers all his unrepented sins.

gotquestions.org/carnal-Christian.html peacemakers.net/unity/carnal.htm
fwponline.cc/v18n1brush.html
soundofgrace.com/feb99/carnal.htm
google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=carnal+christian

Most of us protestants emphasize the Lordship of Christ and view the carnal christian as being “unsaved” Eph 2:10 Afterall, if one is truly born of the spirit, then they will seek to follow christ and walk in holiness.

As a protestant then, could you answer a couple of questions for me?

Define “truly” from this passage. How can a person be sure that the have met the minimum of “walking in holiness” to be saved until the end of the earthly life?

Does the “evil one” have the power to deceive a person into believing that they are saved and not a carnal christian?

If no, how can this be?

If yes, on judgement day, a christian could realize that they were deceived and are only a carnal christian, yet they had always believed themselves to be “saved”? Is this possible?

 

[petra]

Based on 1 Corinthians 3:1-4, some of us protestants believes that a christian who is saved, he walks according to the nature of the world will still make it to heaven because Christ’s blood covers all his unrepented sins.

gotquestions.org/carnal-Christian.html peacemakers.net/unity/carnal.htm
fwponline.cc/v18n1brush.html
soundofgrace.com/feb99/carnal.htm
google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=carnal+christian

Most of us protestants emphasize the Lordship of Christ and view the carnal christian as being “unsaved” Eph 2:10 Afterall, if one is truly born of the spirit, then they will seek to follow christ and walk in holiness.

Contrary to what many Protestants think, Carnal Christians are not those who have been saved and are otherwise undifferentiated from the Natural Man. Rather, the “men of flesh” that are described in 1 Cor. 3 are Christians who are weakend by venial sin, including jealousy and strife, but who are not in a state of mortal sin. Their lives are characterized by activity that has little eternal value—works of wood, hay, and straw.

Verses 13-15 describe Purgatory. If we die in a state of grace, our temporal activities will either endure or be burnt up. However, even if most of one’s works are burnt up, such a person will still be saved. We are saved if we die in God’s grace. Purgatory can be looked at as the firey entrance to heaven—it is not a place of punishment, it is a place of cleansing of our sinful temporal attachments.

petra

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

First, most OSAS do not believe in the doctrine of carnal christian.

I do not believe in the carnal christian doctrine either. This doctrine was made up by schofield in his study bible.

Ah, there is no minimum of “walking in holiness” because Christ himself is our standard. 1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Based on II Cor 4:4 and Matthew 7:22-24 It is possible for Satan to decieve non-believers in believing that they are believers. Look at any of the cults, Islam, LDS, Jehovah Witnesses, Christain Sciencists, Christadelphians and so on, each believes that they are christians when in fact, they all have a false gospel and have another Jesus.

Matthew 7:22-24 is judgement day, the key being a personal knowledge relationship with Jesus.

Look at the parable of the talents. Each person was given responsiblity to work for the master. Jesus told people “go and sin no more”. Hosea’s wife maybe, she keep sinning and Hosea keep forgiving her, but I doubt she learned her lesson.

In Matthew 25 the emphasize of true believers is in fact good works. A hallmark of true believers is doing good works ( eph 2:10).

Scripture makes contrasts between true believers and those still in the world — Eph 5:18 tells us not to get drunk, but instead be filled with the spirit. Gal 5 tells us those who are walking in the spirit do not fulfill the desires of the sin nature, flesh. Scripture tells us to “be holy because God is holy”.

Romans 12 talks about us transforming our mind, not to live like the worldly people do. I posted other scriptures at the bottom that demonstrates that we are to push onto christian maturity. If one is purposely living in sin lifestyle like homosexuality for example, then they are not following God’s will which is moving unto maturity in Christ.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Ephesians 5:18-20 (King James Version)
18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Eph 2
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 Peter 1:15-17 (King James Version)

**15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; **
16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Romans 12
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2 Corinthians 3:18 (King James Version)
18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are **changed into the same image **from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

2 Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5And beside this, giving all diligence, **add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. ** *9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. * 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

col 3
11Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

1 Corinthians 6:12
**All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: **all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ephesians 5:2
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Colossians 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Peter 3:10-12 (King James Version)
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1 Peter 3:15-17 (King James Version)
15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your **good conversation **in Christ.
17For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

1 Peter 2:12
Having your **conversation **honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation

Psalm 50:23
Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

Galatians 1:13
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Ephesians 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

1 Timothy 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth; but** be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.**

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hebrews 13:5
Let your** conversation** be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Hebrews 13:7
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

1 Peter 1:15
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Eze 18

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Ah, there is no minimum of “walking in holiness” because Christ himself is our standard. 1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
.

No minimum standard? Sounds like Christ is that stardard. Perfection is the standard, right?

Since all sin, we must be pruified like silver to be like Christ. That makes God is the silversmith, right?

 

[petra]

First, most OSAS do not believe in the doctrine of carnal christian.

I do not believe in the carnal christian doctrine either. This doctrine was made up by schofield in his study bible.

Ah, there is no minimum of “walking in holiness” because Christ himself is our standard. 1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

While the popular Protestant doctrine of the Carnal Christian is in error, the term “men of flesh” is quite Biblical. Therefore, it is relevant to determine who these people are and where they stand with Christ. The scriptures indicate that they are Christians who will have a considerable amount of works consumed in Purgatory.

True, we are called to perfection. But we are not saved by the Law, we are saved by grace. We don’t need to be perfect to be saved, we need to be in Christ to be saved.

 

[deb1]

".

Romans 12 talks about us transforming our mind, not to live like the worldly people do. I posted other scriptures at the bottom that demonstrates that we are to push onto christian maturity. If one is purposely living in sin lifestyle like homosexuality for example, then they are not following God’s will which is moving unto maturity in Christ.

Well, Catholics do believe that a Christian should mature and grow. Are you talking about something different then sanctification?

I am very confused about the term carnal Christians. I don’t know what you mean by that.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi Deb, yes I am speaking of Lordship of Christ and sanctification.

Did you follow any the links I gave?

Basically, the carnal christian doctrine is, one can be saved, but live like the devil all his/her life and go to heaven. There is no fruit of the spirit in the carnal christain, no good works from faith at all.

It is like someone on the parade ground doing an about face, repent, turning around 180 degrees and just standing there, no movement in the new direction, just walking backwards into one’s old lifestyle of sin.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The first link says,

What is a carnal Christian?

Question: “What is a carnal Christian?”

Answer: In answering your question about carnal Christians, lets first define the term “carnal.” The word “carnal” is translated from the Greek word “sarkikos,” which literally means “fleshly.” This descriptive word is seen in the context of Christians in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. As you read this passage, you see that the apostle Paul addresses the readers as “brethren” and then goes on to describe them as “carnal.” Therefore, we can conclude that Christians can be carnal in their lifestyle. This may mean that a person does not have an active prayer life, they’re not seeking the Bible as an authority for their life, they’re not regularly worshipping God with other Christians, and/or they are involved in the sinful ways of the world (see 1 John 2:15-16).

Back in 1 Corinthians 3, we see the answer to another part of your question as to whether such a person is really saved. Since eternal security is a fact of Scripture, even the carnal Christian is still a Christian. The person cannot lose their salvation, because salvation is a gift of God that He won’t take away (see John 10:28; Romans 8:37-39; 1 John 5:13). Even in 1 Corinthians 3:15, the carnal Christian is assured of salvation…“If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” The question often is not whether a person lost their salvation, but whether a person was truly saved in the first place.

For Christians who become carnal in their behavior, God lovingly chastens (disciplines) them as seen in Hebrews 12:5-11, so they can be restored to close fellowship with Him and be “trained” to obey Him. May the Lord bless you with assurance of your personal salvation and confidence in the eternal security found in Christ to the point of daily devoting your life and lifestyle to Him!

gotquestions.org/carnal-Christian.html

 

[petra]

Basically, the carnal christian doctrine is, one can be saved, but live like the devil all his/her life and go to heaven. There is no fruit of the spirit in the carnal christain, no good works from faith at all.

It is like someone on the parade ground doing an about face, repent, turning around 180 degrees and just standing there, no movement in the new direction, just walking backwards into one’s old lifestyle of sin.

Catholics have no disagreement with you that people who live like the devil aren’t saved—regardless of whether they formerly had a profession of faith.

But according to the scriptures, there is a particular profile of a person who is a “man of flesh” who is ultimately saved, but whose works of wood, hay, and straw are burnt up as he/she passes through Purgatory. It would be consistent with Catholic theology to say that this person dies in a state of santifying grace but the temporal consequences of sin have not been dealt with and/or there is still a fondness or attachment to certain sins. This is clearly not someone who lives a grossly sinful lifestyle. To do so would be to reject and fall away from santifying grace.