Have you ever known a petition for marriage annulment to be denied?

[Cobbfmly]

How is the marriage itself invalid just because the husband is unfaithful?

My understanding is that there would have to be proof that the husband was gay or “swinging” before the marriage for there to be an annulment.

 

[palmas85]

I know somebody who did not get her annulment granted because she could not prove that her ex husband was gay. He hadn’t come out of the closet, and none of their witnesses knew this about him. It devastated her and shattered her, and she eventually changed to a protestant denomination.

I am in similar circumstances…my ex husband had a secret sex life that involved visiting swing clubs when he was supposedly away on business, among other things. None of my witnesses ever knew this side of him, nor did I. It was a complete shock to discover that he was doing this, and hiding it so well. I do have pictorial evidence of his escapades that I eventually discovered on his computer, but his lawyer is fighting to keep them out of the Tribunal’s hands. Needless to say, I’m worried that the Tribunal will rule that I must stay married to this man in the eyes of the Church because it comes down to the words of our witnesses.

Well then I suppose that you will have to just suck it up and stay married in the eyes of the Church… Either that or dump the Church. I don’t envy you but that is just the way it is.

In my case, my ex has re-married. And yes, I am still married to her in the eyes of the Church. But I look at it this way. I married her for life. If she didn’t marry me for the same reason, that is between her and God. At least my conscience is clear.

 

[Ailina]

Miles Mariae;3251970:

How is the marriage itself invalid just because the husband is unfaithful?

My understanding is that there would have to be proof that the husband was gay or “swinging” before the marriage for there to be an annulment.

What if the spouse was unaware at the time of the marriage that the other spouse was prone to such things? How does one prove that if he is so adept at hiding it from everyone?

 

[1ke]

The Church holding Protestants to the Church’s definition of marriage is something I struggle with.

Christ instituted the Sacraments. The Church cannot change what Christ instituted. They can merely investigate the facts to determine whether or not a valid marriage occurred.

Every marriage is presumed valid until proven otherwise. The divine law impediments to a valid marriage are the same for EVERYONE because God instituted marriage, and he did so with Adam and Eve. Marriage is not a merely Christian institution, although its Sacramentality is.

They get married with a Protestant understanding of marriage, they get divorced with a Protestant understanding of marriage and then they get remarried with a Protestant understanding of marriage. Later, they come to understand and accept the Church’s definition of marriage, but are unable to change what they did when they had Protestant understanding of marriage. As a result, they are unable to enter the Church.

This is a generality. There are as many ‘protestant understandings’ of marriage as there are protestant denominations. That ‘understanding’ is not identical in all of them.

The sad thing is that frequently it is easier for a Catholic to get a divorce as any marriage outside the Church, with rare exceptions, is invalid due to form. However, for a Protestant the only marriages that are invalid due to form are civil and non-Christian.

This is not true. A protestant marriage is not invalidated merely by being contracted in a civil manner. Nor is a marriage invalid simply because one or both parties are non-Christian.

 

[drafdog]

I know of a case where the annulment was denied. At a later date the case was reopened and the petition was approved. Much has to do with the willingness of people to cooperate with the process. In the case I know of one of the parties was gay and finally decided to acknowledge the condition.

Matthew

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The Church holding Protestants to the Church’s definition of marriage is something I struggle with. They get married with a Protestant understanding of marriage, they get divorced with a Protestant understanding of marriage and then they get remarried with a Protestant understanding of marriage. Later, they come to understand and accept the Church’s definition of marriage, but are unable to change what they did when they had Protestant understanding of marriage. As a result, they are unable to enter the Church.
. . .n.

Actually if they get married with the understanding that some Protestants have of marriage - a union only so long as all goes well - that is grounds for a declaration of nullity. If they did not get married with the Catholic understanding of a permanent union it was not a sacrament. I think that is a rather common grounds for a decree for RCIA candidates.

 

[Fuerza]

I know an example of a man who’s petition for an annulment was denied. They wrote a song about him…

 

[mml373]

okay, strong coffee okay? (unless you’re an Adventist or Mormon, I guess).
every year I deal with approx 20 families in various stages of marriage issues that result in eventual decisions on validity of a first marriage.

half are invalid due to lack of form (one partner was Catholic and did not obey Church laws on marriage).

about one quarter are invalid because either party had a previous marriage with civil divorce.

about 25% go to a formal canon law investigation which can take 6-24 months in this diocese (small staff, limited resources).
of those, and we are down to 5 cases from the original 20, 3 are found invalid within 6 months because the reasons and grounds are obvious and documented by testimony of witnesses, usually because one or both parties did not intend what the Church intends for the sacrament, could not and did not give valid consent, were married by force or convenience, or other readily proven grounds.

The other 2-3 take longer, because the case is complex, involves multiple previous marriages, witness hard to get whatever. Of those one will probably be declared null because it eventually is proven conditions at the time of marriage were against full proper consent. one or two will be declared valid, and a couple who has been counting on it will be disappointed and dismayed because they thought it was an automatic rubber stamp.

that is only my experience in the couple of parishes I work in, and I only see the beginning and end of the process, not the middle.

bottom line, until couples prepare properly for marriage and are properly disposed and give proper consent, which is not the case for the majority of couples who marry with at least outward attention to Catholic law, annulments will continue to be granted. Rx is better marriage preparation, better teaching on sex, marriage and family issues.

Puzzleannie,

What you have related is comforting to me, as I wait for my own annulment decision. I married someone too soon, completely unprepared for marriage and completely naive in my understanding of people. I made a huge mistake. There was no premarital counseling before the wedding, neither of us were Catholic (I was Baptist, she wasn’t practicing any religion but claimed Christianity), and… she was pregnant before the wedding.

These were dark days, before I found the Catholic faith and before I had the tools to conduct myself properly and to judge people’s character properly. During the course of the marriage, I had a spouse who wouldn’t share household responsibilities, did not value my role as the father of our children, would not attend religious services unless I practically yanked teeth, and who would not obtain child support for her daughter (who I ended up supporting.) I paid to care for three horses while putting her through school, and was disrespected at home. That marriage was the closest thing to hell that I think can exist on this earth, and the marriage was the result of a few bad decisions.

I never knew about annulments while married or after my civil divorce. I joined the Catholic church last year to find that if I ever intend to remarry I’ll need an annulment. My case is pending, and as seems the norm, limited staffing and case backlogs are making my case take time.

I so truly want the gift of a loving marriage and family experience and can only hope that God’s grace will allow that to happen. I was emotionally and physically abused while married, and filed for divorce for a variety of reasons including to protect my children from seeing Dad beaten. I have since fallen head over heels for a wonderful Catholic woman (though the relationship is highly tempered pending the annulment decision), and have come to know many wonderful Catholic families. The gift of a good family life is so precious.

At any rate. It is good to read your note and to see some experiences here. I pray that canon law permits a remedy for those of us who made poor decisions to ultimately have another chance to experience what I consider one of God’s greatest gifts… proper marriage and family within the safety and support of the Catholic church. We do need more marriage preparation… if I eventually travel down the road toward marriage again, my Lady and I certainly will do so within the guidance and counsel of the Church.

mml373

 

[mml373]

The Church holding Protestants to the Church’s definition of marriage is something I struggle with. They get married with a Protestant understanding of marriage, they get divorced with a Protestant understanding of marriage and then they get remarried with a Protestant understanding of marriage. Later, they come to understand and accept the Church’s definition of marriage, but are unable to change what they did when they had Protestant understanding of marriage. As a result, they are unable to enter the Church.

The sad thing is that frequently it is easier for a Catholic to get a divorce as any marriage outside the Church, with rare exceptions, is invalid due to form. However, for a Protestant the only marriages that are invalid due to form are civil and non-Christian.

Cobbfmly, this is an issue I am struggling with now. I married as a Protestant, a woman who wasn’t practicing religion (she claimed to be Christian, however.) I never knew about annulments and was not Catholic until after my civil divorce last year. Protestants divorce and remarry all the time. I knew nothing of annulments till I was told I’d need one if I ever intend to remarry now that I am Catholic… so await a decision from my diocese now.

I must say that awaiting the decision is unnerving and I am in complete despair thinking that I may never be able to experience the blessing of marriage because of mistakes made in the past, the failure to become Catholic as a young man (oh, what a blessing this faith has been… outside of the worry over the annulment decision), and the lack of knowledge.of annulments before marrying. Protestants who become Catholic shouldn’t be exempt from Catholic law, but it would be nice if there were some sort of leniency for those who come into the Catholic church from other religions where divorce/remarriage occurs frequently (and with no real word from those religions preventing it.)

As a Baptist (back then), I never heard the church say a word about divorcees remarrying within the full blessing of the church.

mml373

 

[Armor_of_Light]

This is a very old thread…Lets start a new one, and hope PuzzleAnnie is still around!