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davy050995
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truly amazing…change my life 4ever
Have you ever spent a LONG time at the Real Presence (Catholic or Protestant)?
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cheese_sdc
Guest
So… I’m the “darkness”?
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Esdra
Guest
Hi distracted, have you missed my post?
Here it is again.
Yours,
in Christ,
Esdra
Here it is again.
I don’t really know… I was a Catholic (baptised and even raised a little bit as Catholic) but was very poorly catechised! - And I think also because of the people… I am very disappointed about them. They claim to be Christians but they don’t believe like those. At least those Catholics I got to know here. I think if Catholicsm is the main religion in a country, like it is the case here in Austria - it is so different than let’s say in the US. Maybe I would even revert to Catholicsm if I wouldn’t live in Austria… If a Church starts to get too big, it’s just very different. Watered down by “atheist Catholics” (those who only go to mass because “one has to” but don’t have any Christian roots at all. And this the case here with most Catholics. I think that’s so sad. This is also the reason why I am considering to convert one for all to the Anabaptists. They are fullhearted Christians, they are small…) and liberals…
I did, but please read what happened when I was there in this thread. here.
No prob.
Yours,
in Christ,
Esdra
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crazzeto
Guest
Well my first question is, what difficulties are you facing in Austria that are keeping you out of the Catholic Church? My second one is this, how much study have you done on your own? I would suggest you start (in addition to continuing to particpate here) start studying up on the faith, and the Catholic view on Christianity.Hi distracted, have you missed my post?
Here it is again.
I don’t really know… I was a Catholic (baptised and even raised a little bit as Catholic) but was very poorly catechised! - And I think also because of the people… I am very disappointed about them. They claim to be Christians but they don’t believe like those. At least those Catholics I got to know here. I think if Catholicsm is the main religion in a country, like it is the case here in Austria - it is so different than let’s say in the US. Maybe I would even revert to Catholicsm if I wouldn’t live in Austria… If a Church starts to get too big, it’s just very different. Watered down by “atheist Catholics” (those who only go to mass because “one has to” but don’t have any Christian roots at all. And this the case here with most Catholics. I think that’s so sad. This is also the reason why I am considering to convert one for all to the Anabaptists. They are fullhearted Christians, they are small…) and liberals…
I did, but please read what happened when I was there in this thread. here.
No prob.
Yours,
in Christ,
Esdra
The reason? Well for my part, if I wasn’t in the Christian faith actually started by Christ, frankly I would want to join which ever Church that is. No matter the state of the Church right now in my local area, if it is in a bad state then maybe God is calling you to start about the work of effecting positive change to “fix his broken house” (as one saint was so called to do many hundreds of years ago).
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distracted
Guest
suffice it to say i can’t be around unbeivers long cuz i am human…I suppose I could understand where you are coming from…
-but (always a “but”…HA!)
If you were strong in your faith, why would you let that worry you?
Of course, generally speaking, you wouldn’t really want to be hanging out with people who weren’t religious, anyhow, I’d gather, just human nature. I’d venture to say you wouldn’t have much in common.
and i REALLY don’t want to anyhow… Really really dont want to…
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distracted
Guest
you give little time and attention to the practice of sitting b4 the Blessed Sacrament…
and yet i would rather do that than an kind of charismatic servce…because with the RP… well, it is a purging… and it is also personal… i get insights into my circumstances… etc… I dont have anything against charismatic “services”… but i would rather be in the Real Presence… in total silence…
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Esdra
Guest
- Catholicism is the main relgion in Austria. This means that each political community is one parish (in the meantime due to lack of priests there is normally more than one political community one parish).
We had a VERY conservative and traditional priest. It was so boring always in mass with him.
So, the whole family stopped going to mass every Sunday, what we have done before. First mom, then my sis, then me and at last my dad. My sister and I, btw, have never been fully catechised. Mom didn’t want us to because for her being catechised was so horrible.
This was about the age of 16 or so.
However, I really got a strong longing for something transcendtal. So I started reading the bible. Not regularly - just some time. I have always been attracted by Jesus.
But I also started reading historical books, especially about the religion of the Ancient Egyptians.
Somehow, without knowing it though, I think today, that I also came in contact with reformatoric writings. - Although I don’t know ho anymore.
So at first I had my own religion. A wilde mixture between pagan religions (germanic, greek, egyptian) and Christianity.
Then my longing for Christ even became bigger and I started reading in the magazines of JWs. Later on then I got to know Mormons and they gave me the Book of Mormon.
I would have become Mormon (I sincerely had contact with them!), if my mom hadn’t hidden the BOM and hadn’t forbidden me to meet “this sect”.
After and before my excurses to the LDS and JWs I have always read in the bible and I interpreted it myself - and now I can say that many things I interpreted are identical with the view of most reformators.
Well even while reading the BOM. The BOM has a great Study Helps part - also concerning the Bible. (Maybe I got my reformatoric thoughts from there. Because I eagerly read what they wrote about the Bible.) [some other views I maybe adopted from my dad - because he also new a lot of reformatoric theology. He is quite angry with the Church because so many (in his eyes) points of Vaticanum II were not implemented or reverted.]Then in Summer 2009 I met a former class mate of my mom. She told us that Jesus had appeared to her in India (she was a drug addict and worshipped Shiva, a hinduistic god).
So, I started talking to her about the bible. And I was so happy that I finally had found someone with whom I could discuss the Bible.
She was a pentecostal (but sadly enough in a sect/movement with the prosperity gospel!) and took me with her to a meeting of this movement. I didn’t like it at all. I felt that this is a completely different gospel. And later on I found out that this was a sect.
So I left. My “spiritual mom” of course was very sad about that. “You can’t leave the church you first of all got in contact with Jesus, personally.”
So, I continued searching and found finally via knowinggod.jesus.net/ a Baptist/Anabaptist community (I don’t know what they are in American terms…).
I wrote a lot of emails with the pastor there (and so went deeper into the reformatoric theology) - then I went first to service at this parish.
It was great! The people are friendly - they have accepted me at once as a brother in Christ. We talk to each other, we pray for each other. We are one family, with the Lord as our father.
“This is it what I have been searching for!”, a community that lives nearly exactely the same way than in the Book of Acts in the NT. (I have often read it and thought: “Why don’t Catholics live like those?”)
- I have studied the Holy Bible, the Study Guide of the BOM (LDS Church Edition) and got to know about the Christian faith through my pastor, who is my new spiritual father now… since I don’t have any contact to my first spiritual mom anymore. - Well and “Surprised by Truth” (Even in English. ) - They discribe the other way round like I did in this post… I don’t like this book somehow. I can’t understand why someone wants to go back to the CC when he is an evangelical…
Nothing against you, my Catholic Brothers and sisters - But I won’t go back.
However, I am hear in CAF to learn - and I already did learn a lot here.
Although sometimes it’s getting to hard on here and I quit arguing like in the thread “there is more than one catholic church - how is this possible?” for some time to regenerate!
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Esdra
Guest
Well, I have to add that my mom intensively tried to “fix His broken house”. But she did so when this conservative priest (see above) was. And so she didn’t succeed.
She wanted the mass make a little bit more lively. She was a Charismatic Catholic - A pioneer if you want. Because the Charismatic Movement only came in the 90ies of the previous century to Austria.
Well, the entire family left - and even didn’t go back when the old priest had died.
I am the only one who longed for Christ and finally came to the Evangelicals.
My dad is a “cafe-catholic” so to speak… This means he is Catholic and will stay Catholic, but hardly ever goes to mass. (He was very different in former days! At least he would have nearly become a Catholic Priest!)
Well, mom also had been quite faithful - but then due to the differences with the priest (he even called here a heretic and being in a sect!) she left the church entirely (she is only catholic on the paper - like so many here in Austria). Her new religion is psychology.
My sister was even less catechised than I (she knows pracitcally nothing about the Catholic Faith) and was only 12 years old when everyone in the family started leaving the Church. She was quite influencable, you can imagine, at that time and so she also adopted psychology as her religion, just as mom. She doesn’t want to know anything about religion. Not even about the Bible… That’s really sad. I have often tried to talk to her about Jesus - but she always has blocked my approaches so far.
Best wishes and
God may bless all of you here,
Esdra
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LJL5
Guest
YES!
When I was a regular once a week participant in an adoration hour at St. Daniel’s in Syracuse, I had a terrible night one weekend when I couldn’t sleep. I won’t go into why - I knew if I went to the chapel I could sit or kneel and pray or just adore for hours and I would be safe. So I went and I cannot tell you how peaceful and wonderful it was. I had many hours before and after that night that were part of my regular adoration. My hour was always late at night so there were few distractions other than my own physical tiredness. My godmother suggested I take up this practice because she knew I needed it. She was so very right. I cried and cried when I had to move and leave the parish. Sometimes I go back there on my way home from work and it is like I never left. I have sought out adoration chapels almost everywhere I am sent for work and it is just like home. OUR LORD is present! There is no doubt in my mind. Once you have that connection, you will always want it. I do not know how lapsed Catholics can live without the Eucharist in their lives. It was pure love in that chapel.
When I was a regular once a week participant in an adoration hour at St. Daniel’s in Syracuse, I had a terrible night one weekend when I couldn’t sleep. I won’t go into why - I knew if I went to the chapel I could sit or kneel and pray or just adore for hours and I would be safe. So I went and I cannot tell you how peaceful and wonderful it was. I had many hours before and after that night that were part of my regular adoration. My hour was always late at night so there were few distractions other than my own physical tiredness. My godmother suggested I take up this practice because she knew I needed it. She was so very right. I cried and cried when I had to move and leave the parish. Sometimes I go back there on my way home from work and it is like I never left. I have sought out adoration chapels almost everywhere I am sent for work and it is just like home. OUR LORD is present! There is no doubt in my mind. Once you have that connection, you will always want it. I do not know how lapsed Catholics can live without the Eucharist in their lives. It was pure love in that chapel.
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crazzeto
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Well this is the first sad problem that I see, though sadly you do describe why a lot of people leave the church. Faith has become about me and my feelings. I’m not trying to excuse pastors not making an effort to offer better homilies, or more fellowshiping. But there is something at the mass worth more than all that, there for it should never be boring.
You say you’ve always been attracted to Jesus (which is great), well that is perciesly why people go back to being Catholic or convert from Evangelical faiths. It’s when they do their homework and they are supprised by the truth that the Catholic Church is in fact the Church instituted by Christ him self, and that the Chair of Peter is in fact shepard of the whole flock. These are not small points when one is seeking to be closer to Jesus, after all as a protistant here said, truth such as that found in the scriptures demands obediance. Indeed it does, and obediance mean’s having faith in the Church Christ left on earth. Perhaps Dr. Scott Hahn in his Rome Sweet Home might help you understand this a little better, if you can find it in your native language (or english if you feel you can deal with it).
- I have studied the Holy Bible, the Study Guide of the BOM (LDS Church Edition) and got to know about the Christian faith through my pastor, who is my new spiritual father now… since I don’t have any contact to my first spiritual mom anymore. - Well and “Surprised by Truth” (Even in English.
amazon.com/gp/product/0898704782?ie=UTF8&tag=scotthcom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0898704782
Well would you accept an invitation (or challenge, which ever works best for you) to become better catichised? I can offer a few sources here in addition to Rome Sweet Home:I have never been proberly catechised, I realised that when I came here to CAF and started discussing. In the meantime a know some things. So I know at least now what I have left (or am about to leave.).
Nothing against you, my Catholic Brothers and sisters - But I won’t go back.
However, I am hear in CAF to learn - and I already did learn a lot here.
Although sometimes it’s getting to hard on here and I quit arguing like in the thread “there is more than one catholic church - how is this possible?” for some time to regenerate!
Mary The Second Eve by John Henry Newman (Evangelical Anglican Convert)
amazon.com/Mary-Second-Henry-Cardinal-Newman/dp/0895551810/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277485307&sr=1-1
Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths David Armstrong
amazon.com/Bible-Proofs-Catholic-Truths-Apologists/dp/1933184574/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277485438&sr=8-1
Catechism of the Catholic Church
amazon.com/Catechism-Catholic-Church-Second-U-S/dp/0385508190/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277485466&sr=8-1
Gospel of St. John Commentary Steve Ray (Evangelical Baptist Convert)
amazon.com/St-Johns-Gospel-Commentary-Individuals/dp/0898708214
Crossing the Tiber (ibed)
amazon.com/Crossing-Tiber-Evangelical-Protestants-Historical/dp/0898705770/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277485574&sr=1-1
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guanophore
Guest
On the contrary, what cafeteria Catholic means is that he has become a Protestant and he does not know it. It means that he has fallen away from the Apostolic faith that is infallibly preserved in the Church by the HS. For some reason he has rationalized that this state of spiritual schizophrenia is ok.
It is tragic when pastors hurt the flock, and even more tragic when the sheep run away on account of being hurt.
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Just pray for her. We will pray with you.
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Esdra
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Well, this description fits pretty well. As you may have read in my various posts, my dad has indeed become a protestant (and he also knows partly).
It is. But can you imagine how often this happens here in Central Europe - especially Austria?
Too often, believe me… Especially if there is an old priest who is VERY conservative (and maybe even doesn’t accept Vaticanum I and II and the Council of Trent). People are “forced to go” otherwise they couldn’t live, if they try to renew the parish. To make it more lively, to sing maybe modern songs (also Evangelical Songs). In my eyes, the Catholic Church, especially here in Austria is FAR TOO conservative.
And those who are more lively, the Charismatic Catholics, are said to be mentally ill - crazy and that they are in a sect by those Catholics who are “unfaithful”.
You can’t believe how it is going on here in Austria in the CC.
Something has to change. - The Church will die otherwise, or become a “small sect” (as one in a letter to the Editor in our local newspaper has written once).
Would you not have run away? Imagine, she spent hours preparing services or masses. And the pastor/priest simply says “We don’t want that. This is a sect?” and even worse things?!
To be perfectly honest, I would also have run away. I think if she would have known about the Baptists Church I am attending, she maybe would have converted as well…
In the meantime she is so deeply hurt that she even doesn’t want to have anything to do with religion at all.
And people are wondering why people are running away from the Church? I don’t, no really not.
Thank you. I do, my evangelical parish does.
Esdra
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guanophore
Guest
Yes. It happens here in U.S. too. It happened to me too! There are many of us that got disgusted over the way Vat. 2 was implemented (or not).
Esdra, I think you don’t realize what you are saying here. There is no such thing as an “old traditional and very conservative priets thow does not accept the Council of Trent”. There may be some priests who are still ideologically with Trent, and unable to come forward through Vat I and Vat 2, but once you read Trent.
It is sad that people go to Mass out of a sense of obligation, rather than joy.
Charismatics do have a tendency to get outside the boundaries of propriety and appropriate practice. Some of them have, like you, unwittingly embraced heresies.
Yes. Small but faithful is much more preferable to large parishes full of people who don’t live in a Christlike manner and are nominal (by name only ) Christians.
I am sure my feelings would have been hurt too. If I ran away from Christ every time one of His followers hurt my feelings, I would be in very lost shape. Been there, tried that.
It is human nature to run away from places where we feel hurt and don’t belong, and toward places where we feel accepted and comfortable. Thank God the Apostles did not give in to their human tendencies in this area! Paul got beat up nearly everywhere he went!
Yes, this is understandable. She would benefit from a LONG time at the Real Presence! Jesus would heal and restore her. He never said we would not suffer as a result of our faith in Him. He just promised He would heal us when it happened.
No, I don’t wonder a bit. People are naturally inclined toward comfort, and getting their emotional needs met.
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distracted
Guest
what a beautiful testimony…
all the more beautiful in light of … how mnay Catholics seem to not have a clue when i speak about the RP…
i mean… a lot of them don’t seem to get what the big deal is… and of course those are the ones who don’t go There … or if/when thye do… they don’t stay long…
it seems it takes me 30 minutes or so just to get the worldly gunk out of my mind and heart…
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Esdra
Guest
Well then I was talking about priests not accepting Vaticanum I and II and seeing everywhere “dangerous sects”. He even told me once that the Lutheran Evangelical Church is a sect!
This is what, let’s say, 70% of the Catholics in Catholic dominated countries do! 10% are “faithful Catholics”, like Carina (and considered by the others as “mentally ill” , a bigot, a fundamentalist and a fanatic; and 20% are only Catholics on the paper. (I give no guarantee for these figures. I just guessed!!)
Well, the Charismatics are the future of the CC. It’s the only part of the CC who really attracts people.
You are right. This is the reason why I first went to the Lutherans (but there are also sadly enough too many nominal Christians!) and later on to the Baptists (who are even smaller).
Imagine a parish. Imagine a priest who acts like the one who acted like he did towards my mom. Imagine everybody knows you and all (Remember: 70% Catholics who will say Yes and Amen to all what the priest says!) will get to know that you are in a sect and are saying you that with disgust.
Would you still stay in the RCC (Remember: My mom never left the Church officially!)??
So I am. I do feel very comfortable and accepted in my Church. Though have been “beaten up” not to seldom by others (mostly Catholics) because people think that the Baptists are a sect…
So to refer to one of your previous answers: I AM willing to be considered as a bigot, a fanatic and a fundamentalist and even being “mentally ill” for the sake of Christ.
Do you really think Baptists are in a (Cafeteria) Catholic dominated country accepted? They are considered the same being bigots etc like the faithful Catholics.
I don’t think she would do that. I think she has the same “problem” like I have: People fail, not the Church. But as I have already written to you: The people of a faith are the representatives of the Church. How could someone see the truth of the Church if there is hardly noone from whom you can see it (the truth?)
Do you understand what I am trying to say? (Because I don’t understand myself right now. Oh, sometimes it’s really hard to write so much in a foreign language!
)Apparantly the church can’t meet the emotional needs of the people.
Tell me, why, in your opinion?
There is something wrong in my eyes…
In Christ,
Esdra
PS: Sorry, OP, I got VERY off-topic here…
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distracted
Guest
the future of the Church is catechized Catholics…
i have had very little dealings w/ Charismatics… and yet i am still Catholic…
those who are not catechized don’t stay in the Church… cuz they don’t see how the RCC is different… from other churches (so called) and then there are other reasons… but one who is totally catechized is far less likely to leave…
Charismatics only make up a small % of Catholics…
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