Have you ever talked/written to your priest/bishop about a liturgical issue/abuse? If so, what happened?

[Lepanto]

Have you ever talked/written to your priest/bishop about a liturgical issue/abuse? If so, what happened?

How was your request/complaint received? (Was he attentive or not open to hearing you out?)

How did you communicate the matter (in person, letter, phone, etc.)?

Was the situation explained to your satisfaction?

Was any action taken to rectify the situation?

Did you act alone, or were other parishioners with you on the issue?

 

[puzzleannie]

not in this parish but in a very troubled neighboring parish, both sides of the dispute (over very real issues that affected nearly every aspect of parish pastoral, liturgical and catechetical life) contacted the bishop in organized public ways. His response was correct in every way, but the dispute escalated and went on for many years, was reported on local news media frequently (very slanted) and even in national news a couple of times. 2 pastors later, a lot of very public resignations and accusations, the parish seems to have done a 180, has recently hosted a Marian Conference, and a Divine Mercy 3-day retreat is planned.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

No, because I do not think that the vast majority of what is considered an “abuse” here is even worth mentioning as it is pretty minor stuff.

 

[Daprato]

Have you ever talked/written to your priest/bishop about a liturgical issue/abuse? If so, what happened?

How was your request/complaint received? (Was he attentive or not open to hearing you out?)

How did you communicate the matter (in person, letter, phone, etc.)?

Was the situation explained to your satisfaction?

Was any action taken to rectify the situation?

Did you act alone, or were other parishioners with you on the issue?

Yes I did. I wrote my former pastor a letter outlining both true deformations of the Mass and delicts. It was well-footed noted and written without emotion.

I received a phone call from my pastor in response. He said the GIRM, CoCL, etc. were merely guidelines. That sorta stunned me. I asked if he was going to take any action at all and he said “no.” I told him in a very gentle manner that I was going to send the letter to the bishop with a new cover letter. He slammed the phone down, and no, there had been no previous tension between us.

I did what I said. I received a monumentally rude and arrogant response from my bishop. It looked like it had been dictated by a spoiled child with sarcastic comments like “I’m glad you have the time to spend researching everything we do wrong in your mind.” There is no way the bishop wrote it, and I can only hope he didn’t read it before he signed it.

I then prepared to send the whole batch to been the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments when it hit me. My pastor was clearly on his way out (not that it was planned, but he had antagonized far too many people) and the bishop had a year to go before retirement. So I shelved the paperwork.

Today we have a FAR better bishop and a FAR, FAR better pastor and most of my concerns have been dealt with. That former pastor continues to struggle in a far smaller parish as I type.

I think it comes down ultimately to the level of pride of the people involved.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

I did once. The so-called “Music Minister” picked a so-called “Mass Setting” that completely bastardized the Mass. The “gloria” did not even come close to what should of been there. There were other parts that were just as bad.

I sent a letter to the priest and he actually had the “Music Minister” drop the “Mass Setting”. This lasted a couple months until Advent where she did it again. This time, the most egregious part was the Agnus Dei. When she got to it before Mass and I heard it, I immediately got up and left.

The only time I have been back to that parish was to turn in the notice that I was leaving the parish and why.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Two words.

YES & NOTHING:shrug:

 

[G_S]

Sure, you become the bad guy.

 

[awalt]

No, because I do not think that the vast majority of what is considered an “abuse” here is even worth mentioning as it is pretty minor stuff.

Agreed- there is way more discussion about liturgical abuse on this site than helping the poor and disadvantaged, ways to grow spirituality, how to live the life of Christ in a secular world…it’s amazing. People don’t seem to realize the Mass is intended to send us out to evangelize in the world. The inward focus is downright scary at times.

 

[Karl_M]

Yes, I did write a priest and the bishop (about two different things).

Both situations were email correspondence.

The priest’s response to his liturgical abuses is that we need to focus on helping the poor, and that St. Augustine himself had said that the weakest form of argument is authority (or something really close to that).

The situation with the priest remained exactly the same. He had absoultely no interest in doing the Mass the way we deserve it to be done.

On the second issue, the person at the Bishop’s office at first didn’t give me a direct answer. I got responses like: “the parishes have been instructed on the matter.” But when I pushed a bit more (and said: I want a yes or no answer), the person responded in an extremely nice letter-and the situation was fixed in less than two days (it’s a bit complicated to explain how it happened, but it was pretty neat to see the thing I was mad about being done the right way).

 

[scylla]

Agreed- there is way more discussion about liturgical abuse on this site than helping the poor and disadvantaged, ways to grow spirituality, how to live the life of Christ in a secular world…it’s amazing. People don’t seem to realize the Mass is intended to send us out to evangelize in the world. The inward focus is downright scary at times.

It is intended for us to go out and evangelize but when our faith is misrepresented how can we evangelize and invite people to our Church.
Last time I invited someone to my parish, they were so turned off by the abuse that they never came back. They stayed Baptist because we are not acting Catholic.

If people are not being taught about Christ and how to put Him first how are they going to go out and evangelize and help others come to Christ? Not only that this is the Liturgy forum not the social justice forum, there we can discuss how to better clothe the naked, feed the hungy, properly serve others for Christ.

It seems that many have fallen into the misunderstanding of the Liturgy. I think I will start a thread on this as it seems to be a common theme.
People complain about certain things and others come back with some insane response about how we are the people of God and we need to be more charitable, etc…

Look at my next thread and I will explain…

Scylla

Oh and my response to this thread is…
Yes, I did, they admitted it was wrong and still continue to do it, as they like it.

 

[Lepanto]

No, because I do not think that the vast majority of what is considered an “abuse” here is even worth mentioning as it is pretty minor stuff.

Please cite some examples.

 

[Lepanto]

Agreed- there is way more discussion about liturgical abuse on this site than helping the poor and disadvantaged, ways to grow spirituality, how to live the life of Christ in a secular world…it’s amazing. People don’t seem to realize the Mass is intended to send us out to evangelize in the world. The inward focus is downright scary at times.

Right, as scylla said, this is the Liturgy forum. There is a Social Justice forum.

And besides, why are you assuming that proper liturgy and social activism are mutually exclusive? Why can’t we have properly conducted liturgies AND work for social justice? Are they somehow opposed to each other?

 

[adrift]

I have written both my pastor and a bishop not on the same issues.

The priest was our new pastor. I wrote him a polite letter citing what was wrong. The next Sunday it was changed. The only clue that he read my letter is I had invited him to supper and he asked me what would be a good day for him to come to eat. He has since left the parish and I miss him. His example of humility and service was powerful.

I have just recently sent a letter to a bishop about a parish I visited. The bishop wrote me and asked permission to share my letter with the priest. I had written the priest previously without response. I have not been back to that parish so I do not know if anything has changed.

 

[baltobetsy]

When I was in my 20’s and just beginning to take my faith seriously, I belonged to a parish that was pretty loose about liturgical matters. I wrote a long (and I thought beautiful) letter about what I wanted to see corrected and was charitably ignored.

*Redemptionis Sacramentum *came out when I was pushing 50, and I had a sudden urge to correct everything that was “wrong” in my parish. I had a lot of time on my hands, and wrote a very long letter, complete with citations from RS. My guardian angel kept me from sending it off, and I am thankful for that, because doing so would have caused no end of trouble and hurt. My complaints are relatively minor, so I just trust that the pastor has his reasons. He’s a good guy.

Living in Baltimore, with our new Archbishop, I think that if there were any serious irregularities going on, he would be very responsive to a request for help. But I’m not going to go whine about every little thing that isn’t exactly perfect. I will praise and thank Archbishop O’Brien and any priest who does things beautifully.

Betsy

 

[blessedtoo]

Oh yes. I’ve written to the AB many times. It’s important to note that in addition to writing about abuses, I have made a point of writing to him about those Parishes that do everything “right”.

Anyone familiar with the Seattle Archdiocese will understand the widespread dysfunction that is finally being resolved. Our current AB (just celebrated his 10 yr. anniversary) has done a marvelous job trying to turn things around for Catholics in this city. Some Parishes still stubbonly refuse to obey, but they are losing parishioners as the more faithful liturgies gain momentum.

Every single letter I have written has received a personal, thoughtful, articulate and gentle response from the AB himself. In addition, I have met other local Catholics through CAF who have also written letters to him and received personal replies. I believe that as a result of this letter writing campaign, and our AB’s bi-monthly radio program (where folks can call in and ask questions), the Holy Spirit has guided him to speak out more forcefully about abuses. He recently published new guidelines for the Mass that addressed some of our compaints: lack of kneelers in Churches, lay people giving homilies, use of proper vessels for the consecration of the wine, etc. We are very blessed and we continue to pray for him.

 

[puzzleannie]

I was so disturbed by the pastor’s sermon in another diocese we heard while travelling, that I wrote him a personal letter promising to pray for him, and told him I was also contacting his bishop, which I did the same week. Essentially in his homily he said he had stopped believing most of what the Church teaches, but had come to the conclusion beliefs don’t matter, only actions. At a Mass during which 20 families had brought children for baptism I thought this was outrageous and said so.

I was able to contact the bishop directly through a colleague, found out later the pastor was removed for a few weeks and sent away for some time for discernment and counseling. I assume mine was only one of several comments that reached the bishop’s ears and resulted in the priest getting help.

It has since transpired that he faced many personal, health, family and other issues. I sent cards of encouragement a few times, placed him on my prayer networks. He has since thanked me, returned to active ministry in another parish and according to friends who belong to his parish has changed a great deal in his outlook and method of ministry.

 

[tcraig]

I once wrote a letter to a former priest, citing several abuses that I noticed in the mass (to include his changing the words of the consecration). I took a lot of pains to make it kind and charitable, while making sure that my specific concerns were clearly outlined.

I got a letter back that, in my husband’s words, was basically an “F— you” letter. It said that if I was more spiritual and more concerned about my soul then I wouldn’t be nitpicking about “little” things. It was so rude and so nasty that I cried when I read it.

Shortly after that I gathered up my children and left that parish for a TLM.

 

[VociMike]

Have you ever talked/written to your priest/bishop about a liturgical issue/abuse? If so, what happened?

A local pastor passed out kazoos in a daily Mass attended by the school students and led the students in blowing them during the Mass.

How was your request/complaint received? (Was he attentive or not open to hearing you out?)

The pastor was antagonistic and unrepentant. He told us he would not defend the passing out of kazoos.

How did you communicate the matter (in person, letter, phone, etc.)?

By phone.

Was the situation explained to your satisfaction?

No. We now feel compelled to keep our daughter out of these “school Masses” to protect her faith.

Was any action taken to rectify the situation?

Zilch.

Did you act alone, or were other parishioners with you on the issue?

Alone.

 

[VociMike]

No, because I do not think that the vast majority of what is considered an “abuse” here is even worth mentioning as it is pretty minor stuff.

Then you find yourself in disagreement with the Pope:

“I am convinced that the crisis in the Church that we are experiencing today is to a large extent due to the disintegration of the liturgy…” - Joseph Ratzinger, “Milestones: Memoirs 1927-1977”

 

[Wolseley]

I once wrote a letter to a former priest, citing several abuses that I noticed in the mass (to include his changing the words of the consecration). I took a lot of pains to make it kind and charitable, while making sure that my specific concerns were clearly outlined.

I got a letter back that, in my husband’s words, was basically an “F— you” letter. It said that if I was more spiritual and more concerned about my soul then I wouldn’t be nitpicking about “little” things. It was so rude and so nasty that I cried when I read it.

Shortly after that I gathered up my children and left that parish for a TLM.

I read posts like these and it makes my heart ache, not only for the people who have been hurt, but for the “progressive” clergy and professional liturgistas with their pride and arrogance and bullheadedness.

This is what the aftermath of Vatican II’s nonapplication/misapplication in America has brought us to: instead of “singing a new church into being”, we savage good and decent and innocent people and literally drive them out of our churches.

“You shall know them by their fruits”, and IMO, I suspect that Jesus as Ultimate Judge will not be happy with a good many of the “fruits” that have bloomed over the last 40 years.