Have you ever witnessed or experienced a miracle?

[NonServiam]

Amazing. Sad how an atheist will see this and say ‘just a coincidence’. But us believers know it is something much more amazing than just ‘luck’.

Well, since you specifically mentioned atheists, I feel compelled to comment on this. Keep in mind, however, that I’m not trying to downplay the significance of the event for the family, nor am I trying to downplay the significance of the family bond. Obviously, I think that any family would regard the experience as significant: I’m not questioning the experience or its perceived significance; I am, however, going to question the interpretation of the event as a “miracle.”

Based on the story, this event was not necessarily “coincidence.” It could be, for example, that the girl in the coma was religious (or at least had a religious background), such that hearing a prayer from the appropriate religion triggered some reserve of strength deep inside of her that enabled her to “fight back” against her condition.

Remember, they say that coma victims can hear what’s going on around them – or part of them can, anyway. Doctors often encourage people to talk to coma victims because sometimes simply the sound of another voice can help pull them out of their condition.

That would be a psychological explanation, but not a supernatural explanation. In a similar way, someone who grew up in a Hindu culture might be deeply stirred by hearing prayers to Lord Shiva said over her hospital bed: it wouldn’t demonstrate that Shiva is real.

Another option is that the repetitive sounds of the prayer – forty minutes of prayer is a long time, and the sounds of prayer can produce a droning effect similar to what one hears in mantrayoga practices – triggered some sort of change in that particular person’s psyche.

Another option is that the pastor’s prayers were silent but some unconscious behavior created by his “prayer” was somehow “picked up” by the coma victim and positively affected her.

And, of course, another option is that it’s a coincidence: this particular coma patient was going to wake up sooner or later, and the fact is that for every coma patient who is going to wake up, if someone sits and prays long enough, eventually the person will wake up during a prayer.

Anyway, I write all of this not to try to “convince” you of anything or to “test your faith” or any other daft motivation you probably want to attribute to me: I say it merely to point out that there are a lot more options than “miracle.”

In fact, given the law of averages, we would expect that some percentage of coma victims who wake up are going to wake up in time with some sort of coincidence (they wake up during a prayer, they wake up right at the start of their favorite show playing on a television, they wake up exactly during a crack of thunder, etc.). In fact, what would be “miraculous” is if such coincidences never happened at all.

 

[wcknight]

Well, since you specifically mentioned atheists, I feel compelled to comment on this. Keep in mind, however, that I’m not trying to downplay the significance of the event for the family, nor am I trying to downplay the significance of the family bond. Obviously, I think that any family would regard the experience as significant: I’m not questioning the experience or its perceived significance; I am, however, going to question the interpretation of the event as a “miracle.”

Based on the story, this event was not necessarily “coincidence.” It could be, for example, that the girl in the coma was religious (or at least had a religious background), such that hearing a prayer from the appropriate religion triggered some reserve of strength deep inside of her that enabled her to “fight back” against her condition.

Remember, they say that coma victims can hear what’s going on around them – or part of them can, anyway. Doctors often encourage people to talk to coma victims because sometimes simply the sound of another voice can help pull them out of their condition.

That would be a psychological explanation, but not a supernatural explanation. In a similar way, someone who grew up in a Hindu culture might be deeply stirred by hearing prayers to Lord Shiva said over her hospital bed: it wouldn’t demonstrate that Shiva is real.

Another option is that the repetitive sounds of the prayer – forty minutes of prayer is a long time, and the sounds of prayer can produce a droning effect similar to what one hears in mantrayoga practices – triggered some sort of change in that particular person’s psyche.

Another option is that the pastor’s prayers were silent but some unconscious behavior created by his “prayer” was somehow “picked up” by the coma victim and positively affected her.

And, of course, another option is that it’s a coincidence: this particular coma patient was going to wake up sooner or later, and the fact is that for every coma patient who is going to wake up, if someone sits and prays long enough, eventually the person will wake up during a prayer.

Anyway, I write all of this not to try to “convince” you of anything or to “test your faith” or any other daft motivation you probably want to attribute to me: I say it merely to point out that there are a lot more options than “miracle.”

In fact, given the law of averages, we would expect that some percentage of coma victims who wake up are going to wake up in time with some sort of coincidence (they wake up during a prayer, they wake up right at the start of their favorite show playing on a television, they wake up exactly during a crack of thunder, etc.). In fact, what would be “miraculous” is if such coincidences never happened at all.

Really !!! your explanations are a lot more unbelieveable than what truely happened.

Doctors are about to pull the plug and KILL this person, and the patient just happened to finally hear 45 minutes of talking that pulls her out of it !!???

That’s patently more absurd than us believing in the tooth fairy !!!

 

[HelenRose]

I personally believe that when we witness a solar eclipse we are withnessing a miracle. Them mere fact that we exist in the very tiny short period of time when the moon is just the right size and the just right distance between the earth and the sun for us to see the corona is miracle enough for me to apprecriate God’s universe.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Anyone else?

 

[pablope]

Anyone else?

Not me, personnally…but a friend.

He had blocked arteries, requiring immediate bypass heart surgery. Prior to being admitted, he drank the water from Lourdes that they brought with them after taking a pilgrimage there. At the hospital, the doctor decided to xray again…the doctor could not detect any blocked arteries. Prior to this also, his wife had notified friends and family…and we were all praying the rosary, divine mercy at their house…for a successful operation.

 

[tonyrey]

How exactly does one demonstrate to oneself that an experience is actually a miracle and not just some normal, natural working of the universe that one didn’t understand.

How exactly does one demonstrate to anyone including oneself that miracles have **never **occurred, never occur and will never occur?

 

[HelenRose]

…
Anyway, I write all of this not to try to “convince” you of anything or to “test your faith” or any other daft motivation you probably want to attribute to me: I say it merely to point out that there are a lot more options than “miracle.”

In fact, given the law of averages, we would expect that some percentage of coma victims who wake up are going to wake up in time with some sort of coincidence (they wake up during a prayer, they wake up right at the start of their favorite show playing on a television, they wake up exactly during a crack of thunder, etc.). In fact, what would be “miraculous” is if such coincidences never happened at all.

Do you actually believe that we are unaware that there are a lot more options than “miracle”?

Of course we know that there are other options!!!

But the option of a miracle is still on the table and I am grateful that I have been given the miracle of God’s grace to see it.

 

[hopeful01]

Every time I see a patient in cardiac arrest who regains a pulse, I witness a miracle.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Do you actually believe that we are unaware that there are a lot more options than “miracle”?

Of course we know that there are other options!!!

But the option of a miracle is still on the table and I am grateful that I have been given the miracle of God’s grace to see it.

I don’t think it was his(?) intention to remove any options from the table. Take a look at it in the context of what he was responding to.

Amazing. Sad how an atheist will see this and say ‘just a coincidence’. But us believers know it is something much more amazing than just ‘luck’.

Well, since you specifically mentioned atheists, I feel compelled to comment on this. Keep in mind, however, that I’m not trying to downplay the significance of the event…]Anyway, I write all of this not to try to “convince” you of anything or to “test your faith” or any other daft motivation you probably want to attribute to me: I say it merely to point out that there are a lot more options than “miracle.”…]

In fact, given the law of averages, we would expect that some percentage of coma victims who wake up are going to wake up in time with some sort of coincidence (they wake up during a prayer, they wake up right at the start of their favorite show playing on a television, they wake up exactly during a crack of thunder, etc.). In fact, what would be “miraculous” is if such coincidences never happened at all.

In otherwords, he expressed the possibility of a coincident and explitly stated that miricles were not being removed from the possibilities.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Not that this is a true miracle, but the fireplace mantle clock that my mother gave me stopped at exactly the hour she died. It stopped because it had broken and I had to take it to be repaired. The clock man said that other customers had shared with him the same experience of a clock breaking at the time of the death of a loved one.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I don’t know if this was a miracle, but right before my father died I had dreams about owls, lots and lots of owls, and also I saw a bunch of Great Horned owls and heard them hooting during the day, in a park I walk through. I never have seen them there since.

 

[alwayslooking]

I’ve seen bread and wine become the body and blood of the Lord before my very eyes.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

I don’t think it was his(?) intention to remove any options from the table. Take a look at it in the context of what he was responding to.

In otherwords, he expressed the possibility of a coincident and explitly stated that miricles were not being removed from the possibilities.

The difference is that if you’re an atheist you believe there is no such things are miracle so while we cross out all logical explanations, if miracle was still left, you wouldn’t accept that. So, of course he is crossing out the possibility. Unless of course hes an agnostic.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

I’ve seen bread and wine become the body and blood of the Lord before my very eyes.

Well, that is when the priest prays over it, but I’m talking an out of the ordinary miracle.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

The difference is that if you’re an atheist you believe there is no such things are miracle so while we cross out all logical explanations, if miracle was still left, you wouldn’t accept that. So, of course he is crossing out the possibility. Unless of course hes an agnostic.

Not necessarily. I don’t know that there is no such a thing as a miracle. (using the definition “act of a god that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature.” The other definitions are more about one’s feelings).

But I don’t know how some one would confirm a miracle. Trying the process or marking out natural explanations and then declaring that the super natural explanation must be correct is akin to the “God of the Gaps” arguments and isn’t convincing to me. (That doesn’t automatically mean it wasn’t a miracle) There is also the option of “an explanation isn’t yet available.”

When some one tells me of a miracle or some other event that’s of deep personal significance to them (ex: a friend recently told me about an experience she had with her late father from beyond the grave) I’m not inclined to try to argue for or against it. I just recognize it as something that is a personal experience in their life and let it be.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Not necessarily. I don’t know that there is no such a thing as a miracle. (using the definition “act of a god that appears to be contrary to the laws of nature.” The other definitions are more about one’s feelings).

But I don’t know how some one would confirm a miracle. Trying the process or marking out natural explanations and then declaring that the super natural explanation must be correct is akin to the “God of the Gaps” arguments and isn’t convincing to me. (That doesn’t automatically mean it wasn’t a miracle) There is also the option of “an explanation isn’t yet available.”

When some one tells me of a miracle or some other event that’s of deep personal significance to them (ex: a friend recently told me about an experience she had with her late father from beyond the grave) I’m not inclined to try to argue for or against it. I just recognize it as something that is a personal experience in their life and let it be.

I understand. I too used to be an atheist. Maybe someday you’ll see the light too.

They say when the holy spirit is filled with you, you can see and understand it.

To an atheist thats called the placebo effect. Whatever it is, its true.

Explaining God to an atheist is like explaining a sunset to a blind man.

Atheists already cross out the supernatural so its very hard for them to open their minds. Either that or they think we’re just insane. We’ll see who was really right when we die.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I understand. I too used to be an atheist.

And I used to be a Christian.

They say when the holy spirit is filled with you, you can see and understand it.

I can understand it and see the possibility that something is a miracle. I think our point of divergence on whether or not we conclude that something is a miracle.

Explaining God to an atheist is like explaining a sunset to a blind man.

What’s being illustrated here is while we can walk a mile in each other’s shoes we can’t walk a mile in each other’s minds. It’s unfortunate that there’s no way to share the entirity of an experience (and I say this with more than just religious experiences in mind). A description and retelling of one’s experience is (in general) just not as strong as living the experience itself. We also don’t have access to the complete details of the events behind what may be labeled as a miracle. Under these conditions an intervention from a super natural interaction isn’t entirity distinguishable from some of the other possibilities from natural causes.

Atheists already cross out the supernatural so its very hard for them to open their minds.

The miracle possibility isn’t crossed out.

Either that or they think we’re just insane.

Well, that’s not what I’m thinking. I’m not inclined to think that based on a lack of agreement or convergence of thoughts alone. I have met people that have had mental and psychological disabilities, disorders, and challenges. In general if I really thought that some one was “insane” I would try to minimize my interaction; I’d have concerns that my words and actions would have unpredictable and possibly injurous results on some one (not limited to myself and said person).

We’ll see who was really right when we die.

That’s possible. It’s also possible that I won’t survive my death or that my memories won’t survive death. Without possession of both I don’t think we would be able to recall this exchange of thoughts for further evaluation. I’d agree that “it remains to be seen” given that as of yet neither one of us has died and survived death to see for our selves. But I’m keeping assertions about what we will be thinking or doing after death classified as “unknown.”

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Anyone else?

 

[raaucoin]

I’ve seen bread and wine become the body and blood of the Lord before my very eyes.

 

[tonyrey]

The miracle possibility isn’t crossed out.

But in practice it is ignored! Otherwise one would pray on the off chance that a person would be cured…