Have you found that Roman Catholic converts..

[Jean_1958]

My mistake. I thought the OP was talking about former Catholics who converted to Protestantism, not Protestants who converted to Catholicsm.

On the contrary, I have never really heard of converts to Catholicism speaking poorly of Protestantism or whatever their former faith was.

Jean

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Just yesterday, I had a Newman Catholic shirt on, and Mom suggested that I wear that shirt just to rub my Baptist families noses in it (I’m not sure If I am doing that). I apologized for giving off that vibe, and just explained that I am very excited about the faith, and changed shirts before our family get together (didn’t want faith to be a divisive thing). Not sure if that was the right thing to do, but arguing over religion is never good at a family get together.

Yes, you have very good instincts!

John Henry Newman himself a convert, always looked upon his fellow countrymen that were Anglicans, and that were sincere, as being very good Christians. He never did convert members of his own immediate family. He always counseled Anglicans considering the RCC to take very slow deliberate steps, never wishing them to rush in without gravely considering the entire matter.

 

[Della]

I think Scott is a brilliant man and does a lot of good work but I am apparently of the same mind as you are concerning parts of his conversion.

Of course, there’s more than one type of Calvinist. Mr. Hahn is only repeating what he learned of Calvinism at his seminary. So, there’s bound to be differences between what he was taught and preached and another branch of Calvinism. I’ve seen Calvinists of various types argue with one another right here on CAF.

As to the OP’s experience–I’ve never heard a word against another Christian body within a Catholic Church in the whole of my 20 years as a Catholic, so I’d have to say it was a one off thing. If he were a member of my parish I’d try to have a private talk with him about his anger, especially about expressing it from the pulpit.

As to the sign, it may be that there had been heavy proselyzation within the area of the parish that had made many Catholics start to question their faith. It happens a good deal in the Bible belt.

Our parish experienced a local Baptist church (it’s less than 3 blocks from our Catholic church) putting anti-Catholic material on the windshields of cars during Mass. Our senior pastor called the Baptist pastor and told him he didn’t think that was very ethical or Christian of them, and it never happened again. Sometimes you have to say something when others do such things to other Christians.

 

[Cajetan]

Of course, there’s more than one type of Calvinist. Mr. Hahn is only repeating what he learned of Calvinism at his seminary. So, there’s bound to be differences between what he was taught and preached and another branch of Calvinism. I’ve seen Calvinists of various types argue with one another right here on CAF.

That’s true.

The dominant form of Calvinism in the United States today, though rooted in the old ‘Westminster Confession’ British-American Presbyterian tradition, has moved far from its roots since the 1960s. Basically, the large denominations within it (like the PCUSA) have become liberalized almost beyond recognition. Even newer denominations which were formed a few decades ago as an ‘F-U’ response to this liberalization (like the CRC and the PCA) are now slowly becoming liberalized.

(There are also, it must be said, major differences between the British-American and ‘Continental’ Calvinist traditions like the Dutch. There has always been. Certainly different ways of expression, but also differences in terms of doctrine.)

One interesting development in this tradition, however, is the Internet generation with their blogs and YouTube and whatnot. These young people are fed up and can be said to have rediscovered the soul of Calvinism through digging up the writings of Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, and Calvin himself (especially his commentaries on Scripture), the old Reformed confessions and catechisms, etc. They are quite theologically astute and theologically orthodox. Also, you see quite a lot of Baptists in this camp, the Baptist faith, historically, having strong Calvinist roots. A decent article on this movement appeared in Christianity Today not long ago, called “Young, Restless & Reformed.” Their contemporary gurus are ‘popular’ theologians like R.C. Sproul, J.I. Packer, and John Piper, and are apparently becoming such a problem in the Southern Baptist Convention (with young pastors “preaching Calvinism”) that this denomination has held several conferences in recent years regarding what to do about them.

Keep an eye on them, because they mean business.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

… have become un-Christian towards the faith they were originally from? I’ve met converts to the Roman Catholic Church and they are filled with zeal for their new found faith, but they don’t always seem to speak in a Christian manner towards the church they came from?

   Example:  I heard a Roman Catholic deacon(ex-Lutheran) railing AGAINST Lutherans from the altar in my church.  I was very embarrassed by his venom.  Certain things shouldn't be said from the altar.

    Banner put outside the Catholic Church:  "Don't listen to your neighbors!  Come in and find out about the Truth for yourself".  Another divisive example.  Unnecessary and antagonistic.

   I am happy that the Holy Spirit has led them home.  But that does not give them license to denounce other Christian faiths.

I believe my strong Christian upbringing was spirit led and an important part of my conversion.

I watch the Journey Home frequently on EWTN. It is a show where converts, primarily clergy, share their spiritual journies

The only case I’ve seen where the previous church was disparaged was from a Seventh Day Adventist, who still claimed great affection for her former Church and friends.

All others, to my recollection, claimed great appreciation for their protestant heritage.

 

[JPUSC]

… have become un-Christian towards the faith they were originally from? I’ve met converts to the Roman Catholic Church and they are filled with zeal for their new found faith, but they don’t always seem to speak in a Christian manner towards the church they came from?

   Example:  I heard a Roman Catholic deacon(ex-Lutheran) railing AGAINST Lutherans from the altar in my church.  I was very embarrassed by his venom.  Certain things shouldn't be said from the altar.

    Banner put outside the Catholic Church:  "Don't listen to your neighbors!  Come in and find out about the Truth for yourself".  Another divisive example.  Unnecessary and antagonistic.

   I am happy that the Holy Spirit has led them home.  But that does not give them license to denounce other Christian faiths.

I think this is a typical human reaction for people to be vehemently against a group they were once part of, especially if they had bad experiences in their previous group or they are much happier in their current environment.

I’ve observed the same things with other organizations, such as college fraternities, schools, sports teams, etc.

If there’s any truth to this story, this makes a good example. Brett Favre, who was once the star of the Green Bay Packers, was rumored to be trying to help the Packers’ opposing teams after he left and joined the Jets. I believe there was bad blood between him and the Packers.

 

[AaronK88]

I’ll admit that sometimes when I get into arguments concerning faith with protestants, I’ve brought out a nasty side. I actually come from atheism, and I’ve always been disappointed and a little stupified by the popularity of protestantism. When studying protestant religions in history, before when I was an atheist, I remember having a profound respect for Catholics for keeping true to their faith for the most part for 2000 years. Protestantism always seemed so watered down for me. And I could never get over their rejection, or flat out ignorance of Catholic doctrines such as Marian doctrine. When presented with the truth, they play semantics and accuse us of worshiping idols or what have you.

I know many protestants aren’t like that, but the ones that are just aggravate me. And I shouldn’t be, I should be patient and I should be the bigger person, but sometimes I am not.

 

[Peter_J]

   Example:  I heard a Roman Catholic deacon (ex-Lutheran) railing AGAINST Lutherans from the altar in my church.  I was very embarrassed by his venom.  Certain things shouldn't be said from the altar.

Speaking for myself, if I had that experience I would strongly consider switching to a different parish.

 

[survive]

I was raised atheist and went through the whole New Age gamut from Shirley MacLaine to Carl Jung to Ram Dass to Starhawk etc. I found Christ in the sense of learning enough to become convinced he is God and I am not and He is the One who can save my wretched soul (and this isn’t a complex I had – trust me, I was messed up by that age) when I was about 30. My Baptist brother convinced me I had to make an emotional/intellectual commitment to let God rule me from that point on. Thence I got into the Evangelical Friends Church, and liked a lot about it but the “missing pieces” called to me, I knew not to where. So I had mixed feelings about RSF while within it. I explored a lot and found a place where they would baptize me. In the meantime I was almost drawn into UPC (Jesus-Only Pentecostals) not knowing the difference. No one told me. No one explained that Christian Science isn’t just another denomination, but a fairly different belief system. I was unbaptized and untaught.
So, when I got into a Pentecostal (Trinitarian) nondenominational storefront church full of excitement and bible studies and classes and activities I felt like something wonderful was finally happening. In a lot of ways it was wonderful. The people were kind, and I learned a lot about faith and boldness and courage. I got a chance to do good things. I read the Bible a lot and retained a lot of it too. I learned about responsibility. I made good friends. But then I was surfing, reading all I could about religion and history and discovered that I had been lied to. Badly. Often. by the people I counted on most. That’s why I converted. I vaccilated for months but finally, after a few incidents at my Pentecostal church and a few explanations of theology in RCIA and here deeper and clearer than I ever got back there, I knew I was coming in. At my old church they lectured me for wasting their time because I tried – very patiently and humbly – to make an appointment to ask some doctrinal questions of any ofthe pastors and top leaders, whoever had time in the next few weeks. A go-between had to ask for me, as they were suddenly ignoring me since I’d left a message about having some questions on a couple of their answering machines. There were other things that struck me as inappropriate. It’s painful. Part of me wants to rejoin them just to sing and dance and do outreach again, and part of me is so glad I got out it’s metallic on my tongue.

 

[celticsfan1983]

I’m very glad to hear that, Survive. God bless you

 

[Della]

So, when I got into a Pentecostal (Trinitarian) nondenominational storefront church full of excitement and bible studies and classes and activities I felt like something wonderful was finally happening. In a lot of ways it was wonderful. The people were kind, and I learned a lot about faith and boldness and courage. I got a chance to do good things. I read the Bible a lot and retained a lot of it too. I learned about responsibility. I made good friends. But then I was surfing, reading all I could about religion and history and discovered that I had been lied to. Badly. Often. by the people I counted on most. That’s why I converted. I vaccilated for months but finally, after a few incidents at my Pentecostal church and a few explanations of theology in RCIA and here deeper and clearer than I ever got back there, I knew I was coming in. At my old church they lectured me for wasting their time because I tried – very patiently and humbly – to make an appointment to ask some doctrinal questions of any ofthe pastors and top leaders, whoever had time in the next few weeks. A go-between had to ask for me, as they were suddenly ignoring me since I’d left a message about having some questions on a couple of their answering machines. There were other things that struck me as inappropriate. It’s painful. Part of me wants to rejoin them just to sing and dance and do outreach again, and part of me is so glad I got out it’s metallic on my tongue.

Had a similar thing happen to me. I got involved in the Assemblies of God as a teen. I too got all excited about what they had to offer and got deeply into “the movement.” I went through one of their Bible colleges and graduated with a B. A. in Bible and religious education. I too had no idea there was anything else, but it wasn’t the internet that got me to rethink some things it was the writings of C. S. Lewis, for whose life and witness I still thank God. He showed me one could be a liturgical worshiper and be a profoundly committed Christian.

I too felt like I’d been lied to, but most of the other people in the AoG were just as ignorant as I was and only repeated what they heard/read about the Catholic Church from its detractors.

The Bible was nearly poisoned for me because all I could see when I read it was AoG interpretation. And when I stopped being an AoGer there was no internet, no Catholics explaining Catholic teaching using the Bible as there are now.

Learning how wrong about the Church the AoG and other Protestants sects were made me personally upset, but I never railed against people for being mistaken, only against those who knew better but kept telling us what they knew wasn’t the truth. I have learned to feel pity for people like that because they are playing with fire–and I believe most who know the truth but still won’t admit it are living in fear and deep denial. Only God can judge our hearts, but we can see the damage done by those who will not acknowledge what they know to be true, can’t we?

 

[jmcrae]

I do not get it either.

I have also heard many former Catholics say they have never heard any Scripture in mass YET we have 2 Gospel readings from the old testament and one Gospel reading from the new testament. Plus, the priest gives a homily that revolves around the new testament reading and will even repeat some of the Scripture ontop of it.

How can a former Catholic of so long sit in the pews and never hear any Scripture? It makes no sense.

Jean

I finally figured out what it is that they never heard. They never heard the literal words, “John three, sixteen,” or “Romans, eight, one to seventeen,” because we don’t do Scripture cites at Mass. There is tons of Scripture, but no Scripture cites - no recitation of the chapter and verse that is being read from.

Just as an experiment, take a group of Scripture verses and post them to one of your Protestant sites, without the cites, and see what kind of a reaction you get. I would bet you that the majority would not even realize that you are quoting Scripture at all - they would probably just think you are posting your personal opinions.

 

[Peter_J]

I am surprised of your assesment of Hahn, not that I disagree, but I haven’t found many on this forum who are unbiased enough to see the obvious. I read Hahn’s “Rome Sweet Home” (I may have the title wrong) and came away less than impressed.

In my opinion, Dr. Hahn is a very smart man and a good writer. The thing is, he really has a kind of “cult following”, who make him out to be another Cardinal Newman or another G.K. Chesterton. Hence I’m sure that many people read his book(s) with super-high expectations and come away disappointed – kind of like if you went to a Justin Timberlake concert expecting him to be another Frank Sinatra.

 

[fbl9]

I finally figured out what it is that they never heard. They never heard the literal words, “John three, sixteen,” or “Romans, eight, one to seventeen,” because we don’t do Scripture cites at Mass. There is tons of Scripture, but no Scripture cites - no recitation of the chapter and verse that is being read from.

Just as an experiment, take a group of Scripture verses and post them to one of your Protestant sites, without the cites, and see what kind of a reaction you get. I would bet you that the majority would not even realize that you are quoting Scripture at all - they would probably just think you are posting your personal opinions.

why go somewhere else to do this experiment…it can be done here and one can get the reaction you have spoken of…personal experience…
to sum up what it seems most of the converts to catholism have been saying is that they feel they have been LIED to by the very people they entrusted with their souls,and when this realization sets in one can get very growly…been there done that myself…
it takes time to temper own’s “zeal” for myself when i finally accepted His church as just that, HIS, had i joined this board then i would say there would have been a 100% chance you all wouldn’t be reading this post…

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

… have become un-Christian towards the faith they were originally from? I’ve met converts to the Roman Catholic Church and they are filled with zeal for their new found faith, but they don’t always seem to speak in a Christian manner towards the church they came from?

   Example:  I heard a Roman Catholic deacon(ex-Lutheran) railing AGAINST Lutherans from the altar in my church.  I was very embarrassed by his venom.  Certain things shouldn't be said from the altar.

    Banner put outside the Catholic Church:  "Don't listen to your neighbors!  Come in and find out about the Truth for yourself".  Another divisive example.  Unnecessary and antagonistic.

   I am happy that the Holy Spirit has led them home.  But that does not give them license to denounce other Christian faiths.

That’s nothing. A Mormon friend of mine told me about his girlfriend, her family, and a lot of her community were Catholic converts to the Mormon faith. It was alarming to know of such a quick conversion, regardless of what faith!

Anyways, a lot of converts or Catholics gone atheist/agnostic may have some grudge against its teachings or its history. Others just “grow out of it”. I’m not crazy about it, but I don’t mind it too much: Christianity is not for everyone.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[Pwrlftr]

In my opinion, Dr. Hahn is a very smart man and a good writer. The thing is, he really has a kind of “cult following”, who make him out to be another Cardinal Newman or another G.K. Chesterton. Hence I’m sure that many people read his book(s) with super-high expectations and come away disappointed – kind of like if you went to a Justin Timberlake concert expecting him to be another Frank Sinatra.

Hey…JT is bringing sexy back…let’s see Scott Hahn top that.

 

[survive]

Had a similar thing happen to me. I got involved in the Assemblies of God as a teen. I too got all excited about what they had to offer and got deeply into “the movement.” I went through one of their Bible colleges and graduated with a B. A. in Bible and religious education. I too had no idea there was anything else, but it wasn’t the internet that got me to rethink some things it was the writings of C. S. Lewis, for whose life and witness I still thank God. He showed me one could be a liturgical worshiper and be a profoundly committed Christian.

I too felt like I’d been lied to, but most of the other people in the AoG were just as ignorant as I was and only repeated what they heard/read about the Catholic Church from its detractors.

The Bible was nearly poisoned for me because all I could see when I read it was AoG interpretation. And when I stopped being an AoGer there was no internet, no Catholics explaining Catholic teaching using the Bible as there are now.

Learning how wrong about the Church the AoG and other Protestants sects were made me personally upset, but I never railed against people for being mistaken, only against those who knew better but kept telling us what they knew wasn’t the truth. I have learned to feel pity for people like that because they are playing with fire–and I believe most who know the truth but still won’t admit it are living in fear and deep denial. Only God can judge our hearts, but we can see the damage done by those who will not acknowledge what they know to be true, can’t we?

I’m sometimes afraid to open a Bible. I feel all mixed up and like a bad person when I look at it. Yet, I have four versions. I like to read about the Bible, but I skim right over the longer Scripture quotes. I can read the Missal in Mass though. It must just be the experience of opening one in my home or wherever, alone, with no one to interpret it, and not knowing what it means, that flashes me back to the old days and makes me feel mixed up. I feel on some levels like they have a claim on me back there and I’m wrong for leaving even though it was in response to an ultimatum, so I was semi-kicked out. Part of the resentment must be that it’s painful always flashing back and forth, afraid to do a necessary thing like Bible study.:banghead: And struggling to stay focused and not feel like you’ll wake up tomorrow reimmersed in the old church.

 

[Della]

I’m sometimes afraid to open a Bible. I feel all mixed up and like a bad person when I look at it. Yet, I have four versions. I like to read about the Bible, but I skim right over the longer Scripture quotes. I can read the Missal in Mass though. It must just be the experience of opening one in my home or wherever, alone, with no one to interpret it, and not knowing what it means, that flashes me back to the old days and makes me feel mixed up. I feel on some levels like they have a claim on me back there and I’m wrong for leaving even though it was in response to an ultimatum, so I was semi-kicked out. Part of the resentment must be that it’s painful always flashing back and forth, afraid to do a necessary thing like Bible study.:banghead: And struggling to stay focused and not feel like you’ll wake up tomorrow reimmersed in the old church.

I addressed your concerns in a PM to you so we won’t take the thread off topic.

 

[valient_Lucy]

… have become un-Christian towards the faith they were originally from? I’ve met converts to the Roman Catholic Church and they are filled with zeal for their new found faith, but they don’t always seem to speak in a Christian manner towards the church they came from?

   Example:  I heard a Roman Catholic deacon(ex-Lutheran) railing AGAINST Lutherans from the altar in my church.  I was very embarrassed by his venom.  Certain things shouldn't be said from the altar.

    Banner put outside the Catholic Church:  "Don't listen to your neighbors!  Come in and find out about the Truth for yourself".  Another divisive example.  Unnecessary and antagonistic.

   I am happy that the Holy Spirit has led them home.  But that does not give them license to denounce other Christian faiths.

You’re absolutely right about denouncing other Christian faiths. We must avoid it by all means. It is not only uncharitable, it’s generally counterproductive.

As for how former Protestants behave, I can’t really say. I don’t actually have any friends or close acquaintances who converted. I do remember someone who used to be a Protestant saying something inaccurate about Protestantism, and I corrected them.

I suppose I can only speak for myself. I can’t say that I’ve never criticized Protestantism, but I try not to do it. After all, I don’t really regret anything in my past. Well, perhaps I do regret the way I behaved during the time leading up to my conversion. I do have some bad feelings towards a former pastor, but my feelings are more directed towards him rather than to that church as a whole. My only other stumbling blocks are some family members with whom I do not get along. I don’t criticize them or their beliefs to their face, though sadly I do gossip about them. It’s a terrible habit, that I must break. So at those moments, it can be difficult to bite my tongue. But in those cases, it’s more of a reaction to them, rather than to their beliefs, and aside from them, I don’t find it difficult to be respectful to Protestant beliefs.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Hey…JT is bringing sexy back…let’s see Scott Hahn top that.

I had no idea sexy was missing, but I am so glad that JT brought it back!