Have you read Pope Pius X's Pascendi?

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Geremia said:
Pope St. Pius X is the most recently canonized pope, but have you read his most important encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis, “On the Doctrines of the Modernists”? Please vote.
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Did you really mean “religious,” or were you actually trying to ask about clergy? In other words, a secular priest list is neither a religious nor a layman; what should he do?
 
MarkThompson said:
Did you really mean “religious,” or were you actually trying to ask about clergy? In other words, a secular priest list is neither a religious nor a layman; what should he do?
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For the purposes of this poll, consider him a “religious”.
 
Geremia said:
Pope St. Pius X is the most recently canonized pope, but have you read his most important encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis, “On the Doctrines of the Modernists”? Please vote.
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Is it really his most important document and why exactly is it his most important? Perhaps it is important but not his most important. Not that I have another document to nominate.

I don’t remember where I read this but the analysis was that while he condemned Modernism, he basically invented and defined the term “Modernism” so he the critique basically went that he could include some things and exclude others. Is there any thinking as to why certain things were included but not others?

ChadS
 
ChadS said:
Is it really his most important document and why exactly is it his most important? Perhaps it is important but not his most important. Not that I have another document to nominate.

I don’t remember where I read this but the analysis was that while he condemned Modernism, he basically invented and defined the term “Modernism” so he the critique basically went that he could include some things and exclude others. Is there any thinking as to why certain things were included but not others?
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I think what you mean is that Pope St. Pius X defined Modernism as an “umbrella word” meaning “the synthesis of all heresies”.
The cognitional theoretical basis of Modernism is agnosticism, according to which human rational cognition is limited to the world of experience. Religion, according to this theory, develops from the principle of vital immanence (immanentism) that is, from the need for God which dwells in the human soul. The truths of religion are, according to the general progress of culture, caught up in a constant substantial development (evolutionism).
—Dr. Ludwig Ott’s [Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Request Rejected) pgs. 16-17​
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I think Pascendi is his most important encyclical, and these are his other important documents:
 
Have read it several times and use quotations to refute those who do not recognize why these modernist tendancies are detrimental to the Faith. I wish that more Catholics would learn their heratige and study the Faith, from the early Fathers and Doctors all the way to Pope Benedict XVI. It is very difficult to fool educated people.
 
Geremia said:
I think what you mean is that Pope St. Pius X defined Modernism as an “umbrella word” meaning “the synthesis of all heresies”.
I think Pascendi is his most important encyclical, and these are his other important documents:
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IMHO St. Pius X encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis is as or should be as prevalent today in the Church as the day he wrote the encyclical.
Many though seem to think of it as ancient or outdated.
 
Is there a list of documents out there that “religious” and laity should read?

This document is not required, or at least so far is has not been required in my education.

I have a lot of reading to do for my classes. Then add in my personal spiritual reading and the little bit of reading I do for entertainment. That does not leave a whole lot of time.

I did not vote but I think you can guess that I have not read it.

But, I am going on a long road trip over Christmas vacation and I will print this out and read it while I am not driving.

That is if you think I should read it. Maybe you can tell me why I should read it.
 
ByzCath said:
That is if you think I should read it. Maybe you can tell me why I should read it.
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Well it’s been said it’s his most important encyclical, but why hasn’t really been explicated.

ChadS
 
ChadS said:
Well it’s been said it’s his most important encyclical, but why hasn’t really been explicated.

ChadS
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:hmmm: Good question. Few in the Church both the Laity and Clergy ever thought the Encyclical Humane Vitae was important.

One might as well ask why that encyclical fell on deaf ears very much for the same reason the encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis never warranted much interest.

Same ole story, some people in the Church pick and choose what they (“personally”) find interesting and important and throw the rest in the trash.
 
centurionguard said:
:hmmm: Good question. Few in the Church both the Laity and Clergy ever thought the Encyclical Humane Vitae was important.

One might as well ask why that encyclical fell on deaf ears very much for the same reason the encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis never warranted much interest.

Same ole story, some people in the Church pick and choose what they (“personally”) find interesting and important and throw the rest in the trash.
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Perhaps it’s a matter of Pius X being well ahead of his time in his warnings and by the time his advice comes to pass those he is fighting against are the ones in charge. Although this seems simplistic to me I could see how others could make the argument. Then again much of what Pius X said had its roots in various ancient and Medieval heresies. If you read St. Francis de Salles the “Catholic Controversy” you see that 90% of what Protestants teach was adequately refuted by St. Francis and many of the positions refuted by Pius were also held by some Protestant sects in the 15th and 16th centuries.

ChadS
 
centurionguard said:
:hmmm: Good question. Few in the Church both the Laity and Clergy ever thought the Encyclical Humane Vitae was important.

One might as well ask why that encyclical fell on deaf ears very much for the same reason the encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis never warranted much interest.

Same ole story, some people in the Church pick and choose what they (“personally”) find interesting and important and throw the rest in the trash.
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You did not answer the question. You just gave an ad hominem attack on those who may hold a different opinion than yours.

As far as I am aware there is no ranking of papal encyclicals by the Church telling us what ones we should read and what ones we do not have to read. After all there are hundreds of them.

Just counting from Pope Gregory XVI (1831-46) to the current pope there are 281.

I have no opinion and was asking why this one is considered (in the opinion of the OP) important.
 
Geremia said:
Pope St. Pius X is the most recently canonized pope, but have you read his most important encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis, “On the Doctrines of the Modernists”? Please vote.
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Pascendi is no doubt important, but I think the title of Most Important is subjective.

He actually accomplished a tremendous body of work that, had it been heeded, would have resulted in a world far different than the one we see now.

For example, you have his 1912 letter, Singulari Quadam (On Labor Organizations), in which he stated,
7. Furthermore, if Catholics are to be permitted to join the trade unions, these associations must avoid everything that is not in accord, either in principle or practice, with the teachings and commandments of the Church or the proper ecclesiastical authorities. Similarly, everything is to be avoided in their literature or public utterances or actions which in the above view would incur censure.

The Bishops, therefore, should consider it their sacred duty to observe carefully the conduct of all these associations and to watch diligently that the Catholic members do not suffer any harm as a result of their participation. The Catholic members themselves, however, should never permit the unions, whether for the sake of material interests of their members or the union cause as such, to proclaim or support teachings or to engage in activities which would conflict in any way with the directives proclaimed by the supreme teaching authority of the Church, especially those mentioned above. Therefore, as often as problems arise concerning matters of justice or charity, the Bishops should take the greatest care to see that the faithful do not overlook Catholic moral teaching and do not depart from it even a finger’s breadth.
Had this been heeded back from the beginning, many of the political and sociological efforts that have been backed by labor might not ever have happened. For example, think about how labor unions at large support mass socialism. Had the bishops in question heeded the advice above (back when they had large influence), Catholic union members would have been faced with a choice of being union or being a good Catholic. In the first part of the 20th Century, I think a good portion of them would have chosen “Catholic” over “union.” Considering modern union influence over the political process, particularly on the left, that would have resulted in a far different picture than what we see today.

There are many other examples of where this pope’s writings have proven to be prophetic, not simply Pascendi.
 
markomalley said:
He actually accomplished a tremendous body of work that, had it been heeded, would have resulted in a world far different than the one we see now.
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I think this could be said about Jesus.

Every Encyclical is important that is why the popes write them. I do not think we can say that any one of them is more important than any other.
 
markomalley said:
The Bishops, therefore, should consider it their sacred duty to observe carefully the conduct of all these associations and to watch diligently that the Catholic members do not suffer any harm as a result of their participation. The Catholic members themselves, however, should never permit the unions, whether for the sake of material interests of their members or the union cause as such, to proclaim or support teachings or to engage in activities which would conflict in any way with the directives proclaimed by the supreme teaching authority of the Church, especially those mentioned above. Therefore, as often as problems arise concerning matters of justice or charity, the Bishops should take the greatest care to see that the faithful do not overlook Catholic moral teaching and do not depart from it even a finger’s breadth. [/INDENT]
Had this been heeded back from the beginning, many of the political and sociological efforts that have been backed by labor might not ever have happened. For example, think about how labor unions at large support mass socialism. Had the bishops in question heeded the advice above (back when they had large influence), Catholic union members would have been faced with a choice of being union or being a good Catholic. In the first part of the 20th Century, I think a good portion of them would have chosen “Catholic” over “union.” Considering modern union influence over the political process, particularly on the left, that would have resulted in a far different picture than what we see today.

There are many other examples of where this pope’s writings have proven to be prophetic, not simply Pascendi.
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This seems to be a very selective reading of history. Catholic bishops in this country in the 1920s and 1930s urged Catholics to keep Church teaching in mind when confronting the economic crisis of the Great Depression. Catholic priests and lay people were active in the trade union movement and to suggest that socialists or communists wholesale ran unions whether it be in the 1930s or 1970s or even today seems to me to be somewhat wishful thinking. The CIO in the 1940s and 1950s required union members to take oaths of loyalty to the U.S. government and eventually expelled several entire unions that were communist led and dominated from the CIO, other unions that remained in the CIO often marginalized local leaders and locals that refused to satisfactorily deal with communists in their organizations.

In the early 1900s and later there was a Catholic trade union association seen as an alternative to other secular organizations. This is just the tip of the iceberg in talking about Catholics confronting injustice and unfairness in society and labor practice or even the notion that labor sold out to communists completely.

ChadS
 
ChadS said:
This seems to be a very selective reading of history. Catholic bishops in this country in the 1920s and 1930s urged Catholics to keep Church teaching in mind when confronting the economic crisis of the Great Depression. Catholic priests and lay people were active in the trade union movement and to suggest that socialists or communists wholesale ran unions whether it be in the 1930s or 1970s or even today seems to me to be somewhat wishful thinking. The CIO in the 1940s and 1950s required union members to take oaths of loyalty to the U.S. government and eventually expelled several entire unions that were communist led and dominated from the CIO, other unions that remained in the CIO often marginalized local leaders and locals that refused to satisfactorily deal with communists in their organizations.

In the early 1900s and later there was a Catholic trade union association seen as an alternative to other secular organizations. This is just the tip of the iceberg in talking about Catholics confronting injustice and unfairness in society and labor practice or even the notion that labor sold out to communists completely.

ChadS
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At some point in time it broke down and now it is considered in some circles as more anti-Catholic if you oppose unions like the NEA and the SEIU (with their far-left agendas) than supporting organizations with positions that directly contradict the Magesterium. And unfortunately that perception includes not a few diocesan “justice and peace” directorates.
 
ByzCath said:
I think this could be said about Jesus.

Every Encyclical is important that is why the popes write them. I do not think we can say that any one of them is more important than any other.
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And that is why I said: Pascendi is no doubt important, but I think the title of Most Important* is subjective**.*
 
As no one has been able to tell me why this encyclical is so important I think I will be reading the Story of a Soul on my trip.
 
ByzCath said:
As no one has been able to tell me why this encyclical is so important I think I will be reading the Story of a Soul on my trip.
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Nothing wrong with reading a little bit of Therese. A little Carmelite spirituality is good for the soul.

Still, reading Pascendi is a good idea. Seeing a lot of the errors he documented back in 1903 helps explain a lot of what is going on in the Church and the world (and, in fact, the diversity of opinion here on CAF) today.

Actually, a good book to read along those lines is a compilation put together by TAN books, titled, The Popes Against Modern Errors. This book has the following papal writings in it:
  • On Liberalism (Mirari Vos). Gregory XVI. 1832.
  • On Current Errors (Quanta Cura). Pius IX. 1864.
  • The Syllabus of Errors. Pius IX. 1864.
  • On Government Authority (Diuturnum Mud). Leo XIII. 1881.
  • On Freemasonry and Naturalism (Humanum Genus). Leo XIII. 1884.
  • On the Nature of True Liberty (Libertas Praestantissimum). Leo X111. 1888.
  • On the Condition of the Working Classes (Rerum Novarum). Leo XIII. 1891.
  • On Christian Democracy (Graves de Communi Re). Leo XIII. 1901.
  • Syllabus Condemning the Errors of the Modernists (Lainentabili Sane). St. Pius X. 1907.
  • On Modernism (Pascendi Dominici Gregis). St. Pius X. 1907.
  • Our Apostolic Mandate (On the “Sillon”). St. Pius X. 1910.
  • The Oath Against Modernism. St. Pius X. 1910.
  • On the Feast of Christ the King (Quas Primas). Pius XI. 1925.
  • On Fostering True Religious Unity (Mortalium Animos). Pius XI. 1928.
  • On Atheistic Communism (Divini Redemptoris). Pius XI. 1937.
  • On Certain False Opinions (Humani Generic). Pius XII. 1950.
While you can actually read all of the above on line, it’s nice to have them in a hard copy book (works better IMO on a plane, train, or automobile).
 
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