Have you seen the 3 d figure of the shroud of turin

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@Loud-living-dogma, yes I was talking to you. I must not be replying correctly in the forum. I thought the reply link at the bottom of an individual response would alert everyone to whom the reply was being made. I apologize for any confusion.

Thanks for the link. I am interested in reading it. Just glancing through it, Gregory S. Paul does have credible credentials for making his claims.

I do wonder, however, if distortions in the fabric (i.e., stretching or something of the like) when enshrouding whatever or whomever might come into play for the distortions in the 3D rendering.
 
@Loud-living-dogma, that was an interesting read. It seems that part of Paul’s argument is predicated on microcephalic individuals and their intelligence (i.e., that individuals suffering from microcephaly are less intelligent. This is illustrated in the following quote from Paul’s article:
If the latter were an actual human, and if its brain functioned by the same basic means as in other people, then his brain volume was so low that the intellectual capacity would have been seriously impaired, and obviously so in any surviving accounts.
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This argument might be erroneous given the following article on IQ’s and microcephaly:

notpoliticallycorrect.me

Microcephaly and Normal IQ

1400 words In my last article on brain size and IQ, I showed how people with half of their brains removed and people with microcephaly can have IQs in the normal/above average range. There is a pre…
notpoliticallycorrect.me notpoliticallycorrect.me

Still, all the information is interesting!

Thanks!
 
anna said:
it is not a fruitless thread and I do not understand why you are so upset, If you want why not just skip over this thread. There is alot of scientific evidence, and clergy pointing to the authenticity of the Shroud. I believe this is the Burial cloth of our Savior…God bless
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There are many existing threads in these forums on the Shroud. You should do a search and join them.

There is no evidence to prove the Shroud is genuine. It is not a fact. It is a matter of opinion. You are free to believe it is genuine. That is your right and I have no problem with anyone believing that. I don’t believe it is genuine.
What I object to is anyone saying it is a FACT that the Shroud is genuine. It is NOT A FACT. It is opinion/belief.

Also, It is not part of the Deposit of Faith and nor does it add anything to Church doctrine.
 
thistle said:
There are many existing threads in these forums on the Shroud. You should do a search and join them.
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@thistle, there are many threads on the Shroud. However, they are locked. So, it’s impossible for Anna to join them.
 
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jvickers said:
There are many threads on the Shroud. However, they are locked. So, it’s impossible for Anna to join them.
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You are right but these threads are very lengthy threads which she can access and read all the posts even if she cannot join to comment.
 
This is true, but sometimes new points come up that are interesting such as the point of microcephaly I brought up. (At least, I thought it was interesting 🙂.) Also, I appreciate the participatory nature of some threads. Reading older threads can be interesting when looking for specific information, but as I point out, new ideas do arise.

Thanks!
 
thistle said:
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undead_rat:
Sir, simply because the Catholic Church has not formally declared that the Shroud is authentic does not automatically mean that such has not been proven. Remember that it took the Church many many years to come to the understanding that our solar system is heliocentric. With all due respect to the Church, it sometimes is behind the curve when it comes to science, and it is science that has proven that the Shroud is authentic and that its image of Jesus was formed by a miraculous event.

You say that there is “zero evidence” when in fact there is a mountain of scientific evidence that the Shroud is authentic. That mountain started in 1898 with Pia’s astounding photograph and continues to be added to this day. Sir, perhaps your skepticism would be better served if you were to contest the points that Prof Fanti raised in his 2015 book, but then you haven’t bothered to read it, have you?
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I totally followed the threads on this subject you have been involved in and basically nobody agreed with your claims and I am certainly not engaging in another fruitless thread on this. It would be better if the OP just joined one of your other threads.

I repeat that you are entitled to believe the Shroud is genuine. Nobody is stopping you from that view but please do not tell other people, especially those who know little about the Shroud that it is a fact the Shroud is genuine.

IT IS NOT A FACT. IT IS YOUR OPINION.
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😀
 
Why would it be so important to you to attack someone on their own faith … it’s really sad to see someone treated in this way on this board.
 
I have read the other threads when they were dated. There is alot of new information and I wanted to see how others on the forum felt. I never stated that my beliefs were fact…Neither did anyone else that posted… God bless you
 
I took your advice and went back and reread some of the old posts on the Shroud. One thing I noticed was that you were not very kind to anyone who said they believed the Shroud was Jesus burial cloth. Why? God bless you.
 
I think the shroud is a beautiful object worthy of veneration through the faith we have in Jesus, whether or not it is in fact the burial cloth of our Lord.

I don’t think it is possible to authenticate it, however the scientific efforts are very interesting.
 
Interesting read. This has been a fairly interesting thread in terms of thought experimentation. I do not doubt the authenticity of the carbon dating. Thanks for finding it, @Loud-living-dogma. It is better evidence than initially presented.

We also know that microcephaly does not necessarily result in below-average intelligence!
 
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The problem becomes when these devotional items become a kind of idol.
We are not materialists folks. There will never be conclusive material proof the cloth was factually Christ’s burial cloth.
So let’s not idolize it as a proven and required item of faith. If it aids you in your faith that’s wonderful.
Let it be what it is, and not more than it is.
 
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I disagree with you…First I do not idolize the Shroud… Second your saying ’ Let it be what it is and no more than it is.’ Truth is you aren;t sure that it isn’t the Shroud of Jesus. Somehow I have the feeling both of us will really find out. God bless you
 
Didn’t say you did idolize it.
Many do, and give it more credence than the Church, and have an insistence that others give it more credence than it has.
I don’t know you so…
 
On the one hand doubters say the image is incorrectly proportioned to be human and on the other they claim to duplicate it using a human.

I wish they would make up their minds.
 
vz71 said:
On the one hand doubters say the image is incorrectly proportioned to be human and on the other they claim to duplicate it using a human.

I wish they would make up their minds.
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Well a statue in one case, a person wearing a mask in another.
 
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Katherine438 said:
Why would it be so important to you to attack someone on their own faith … it’s really sad to see someone treated in this way on this board.
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I am not attacking anyone. I am simply stating that IT IS NOT A FACT that the Shroud is genuine. It is the opinion of anyone who believes it is true.
Nobody should go around saying it is a fact when it is not. Anyone may believe in it or not. I have no problem with anyone who believes it is genuine but that is their opinion only, not a fact.
 
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