Have you stopped seeking truth or have you given up and just accepted your faith tradition without question?

[Marc_Anthony]

Hey StrawberryJam,

Well, without God, why are we here? No good reason? We just randomly exist? We’re a chance combination of molecules luckily built into humans? If so, why do we do anything? What’s the point? I might as well be a criminal. I could have fun for awhile, and I’m going to die eventually anyway, so I wouldn’t worry about that.

Now I know the arguements about why the universe is still meaningful without God. I read them, they made no sense to me. I really didn’t buy the atheist/agnostic viewpoint. It seemed like they had to stretch for answers.

But more than anything else, I now know that Catholicism is true. Everything else is irrelevant. I searched for the Truth.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

I have FINISHED seeking truth some time around 2007-2008.

I found it in the Catholic Church! :extrahappy:

I started searching for the truth in the summer of 1989. Thus, my full journey lasted almost 20 years. Although I was baptized Catholic as a baby, and grew up in a practicing Catholic family, I had many questions: Is there anything of non-material nature that survives death? Or, are the atheistic materialists correct in insisting that there is no God, there are no angels and devils, and man doesn’t have a non-material soul? Was Jesus as described in the Bible a real historic person, are the Gospels trustworthy documentary material? Is the Catholic Church truly free of error, and does it hold the fullness of truth and divine revelation, as it insists? Or, are the Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Pope-bashers right in saying that the Catholic Church has fallen into various errors? Did the Catholic Church, and the Pope, receive all that authority from Jesus Christ, that it says it received? Can I be sure that I will get to Heaven, and have eternal life and eternal happiness, if I follow and obey the teachings of the Catholic Church? These were the questions that came up during my journey, and today I have a full and satisfactory answer to my questions.

 

[humble_maid]

I read the footsteps thing, and isn’t it Christ who carries you through your struggles in life?
The guy pointed to one set of footprints and accused Christ of not being there at those hard times. That’s when Christ replies he carried him then.

Was that just yet another way to use people’s emotions and get them to believe things about Christ we have no way of knowing?

Peace be with you,

It seems that the author of this poem was familiar with suffering and understood the importance of faith in Christ. The author was aware that while we suffer we sometimes become immersed in our own despair and forget there is hope in Jesus. He conquered death and if we continue to believe His words they will carry us in these difficult times. One must believe, but also understand His message so that it remains a beacon of light to our souls and we are relieved of the burden of sin. Though we shall suffer because we belong to him He makes our burden light by carrying our sins on His cross.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come to me all you that labor and are burdened, and I will refresh you. 29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: And you shall find rest to your souls. 30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

God Bless

 

[Bluegoat]

Peace be with you,

It seems that the author of this poem was familiar with suffering and understood the importance of faith in Christ. The author was aware that while we suffer we sometimes become immersed in our own despair and forget there is hope in Jesus. He conquered death and if we continue to believe His words they will carry us in these difficult times. One must believe, but also understand His message so that it remains a beacon of light to our souls and we are relieved of the burden of sin. Though we shall suffer because we belong to him He makes our burden light by carrying our sins on His cross.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come to me all you that labor and are burdened, and I will refresh you. 29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: And you shall find rest to your souls. 30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

God Bless

It’s a sentimental poem and I don’t think it has much artistic merit, but I think it is an honest enough description of someone’s personal experience.

 

[humble_maid]

I have FINISHED seeking truth some time around 2007-2008.

I found it in the Catholic Church! :extrahappy:

I started searching for the truth in the summer of 1989. Thus, my full journey lasted almost 20 years. Although I was baptized Catholic as a baby, and grew up in a practicing Catholic family, I had many questions: Is there anything of non-material nature that survives death? Or, are the atheistic materialists correct in insisting that there is no God, there are no angels and devils, and man doesn’t have a non-material soul? Was Jesus as described in the Bible a real historic person, are the Gospels trustworthy documentary material? Is the Catholic Church truly free of error, and does it hold the fullness of truth and divine revelation, as it insists? Or, are the Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Pope-bashers right in saying that the Catholic Church has fallen into various errors? Did the Catholic Church, and the Pope, receive all that authority from Jesus Christ, that it says it received? Can I be sure that I will get to Heaven, and have eternal life and eternal happiness, if I follow and obey the teachings of the Catholic Church? These were the questions that came up during my journey, and today I have a full and satisfactory answer to my questions.

Peace be with you,

I am a cradle catholic, and have in the last two recent years become devout. Your journey sounds very interesting, I am on this journey. However, there are so many things to learn and many of them were brought up in your post. Though we can look for the answers we must believe with our souls. I still get stumped from time to time, but that just keeps me going on and searching for all the right answers. May you please share with us how you came about having ‘a full and satisfactory answer’? Was it an epiphany or did it come about gradually over the years?

God Bless

 

[humble_maid]

It’s a sentimental poem and I don’t think it has much artistic merit, but I think it is an honest enough description of someone’s personal experience.

Peace be with you,

Thank you for your post. I was addressing StrawberryJam’s post regarding the poem. The poem was not an attempt to simply stir the emotions so as to persuade the person to believe in Christ but to bring awareness of the closeness of Christ’s Being within us all especially when we suffer.

Not to derail the thread, but I thought it would be interesting to know that the author of the poem seems to be a Mary Stevenson Zangare of the US. footprints-inthe-sand.com/

God Bless

 

[lynx]

That would be foolhardy. Faith and reason can co-exist.

Yes they can, but I never said they couldn’t.

Faith is knowing that Christ is out there, and holding to him while we suffer through the trails of life. Faith is no mere act of easiness, but an ongoing struggle for truth, hope, and love.

That’s fine, and this doesn’t contradict anything i’ve said so far.

Faith is having proof and knowing. Without knowing, or proof, it is impossible to have true faith in something.

I disagree. For faith to be faith you must believe without proof. A good definition I would give is, " Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." For instance, what proof do you have the Christ was the son of God? Or what proof do you have that God loves you? What proof do you have that prayer works? What people believe, and what can be proven are two separate things.

The act of faith alone is one of the greatest works we can see. For though there are many that would deny the existence of Christ himself, we fight on with our faith. We know, we trust, we believe.

We have faith.

You do have much faith. You may fight with your faith, and believe it as you believe the sun will rise the next day, but proof is something you don’t have. You may have stories, experiences, tradition, but not empirical, measurable, and repeatable facts.

No. Faith should be understood more as faithfulness, with a dash of hope thrown in.

All of which lack the need for actual proof to believe. Belief in God needs faith, but it does not need proof. I’m sure that when you greet the day, the warmth of the lord washes over you like an ocean. When reading the word in church i’m sure your mind and body are filled so wholly in such that you must believe. This is knowledge that faith will give you, but it is not knowledge that will produce the proof needed to ever move past faith.

The hope part really applies to everyone. Why do we choose to believe the universe is rational and knowable? Why do we choose to believe the world we percieve is real, and not a dream? Why do we believe in the law of non-contradiction, the foundation of all human inquiry?

All questions for the Apologetics forum.

 

[lynx]

No… no. Wow.

You say it like it’s the first time someone has defined faith for you

Faith is something we all have.

True.

We have faith every time we set the alarm clock that because we paid the bill our electricity will stay on. That’s a little bit of faith, right? But it is very reasonable to have enough faith that the electricity will stay on to rely on an electric alarm clock, right? Even tho we don’t have proof?

The wording through me off a little but here’s my take, I have faith that the electrical workers will do their job correctly, and I have faith in my memory that I set my alarm. Does this mean I should make a huge leap to faith in an all knowing deity?

In the same way, it is very reasonable to believe in God. For Catholics, who believe not what man decided what the Bible means but those truths which God has taught us, it is very reasonable to believe.

Yes, I understand you believe what you think you know regardless of any claims otherwise. My issue is that faith does not require proof. I still don’t know if we’ve addressed that yet.

It is very reasonable to believe in God as well. Even Aristotle was able to figure out God’s existence (altho he was very intelligent).

When I consider my journey into Catholicism and through until now, everything I have learned is eminently reasonable, and the best part is that it all fits. There are no loose ends. Why does evil exist? Catholicism has an answer. Why must we suffer? Catholicism has an answer. How can we know what to do, how can we know we are forgiven, what will happen after death–Catholicism answers all these questions and! *the answers make complete sense. *

All good things for the Apologetics forum.

So in reality, the more I question my Faith, and the more answers I come across, the more reasonable it is, and the more faith I have.

Well then, it may surprise that through my own personal faith introspection I have come to the opposite conclusion.

The question of proof… it depends on what one will accept as proof. I proved that living a God-less materialist existence was really kinda the pits.

When? I’m actually pretty happy with my current situation. Am I an exception that proves the rule?

To prove irrefutably that God exists by the scientific method, which is designed only for the material world and doesn’t work for the supernatural realm, is indeed impossible, but that is the standard to which most who ask the question require the proof to adhere.

It is to this standard which faith is defined against. If you do not have this for knowledge that you contain then that knowledge is based of of faith.

But to show that it is more reasonable to believe in God than to disbelieve is very possible to someone who is willing to consider that maybe there is more in existence than that which we are able to perceive with our physical senses. To show that living by God’s laws is not only better for individual human beings but for entire societies is very possible, for those who are willing to be honest about what makes people happy.

How other people live does not affect your faith in God. How society perceives you does not affect your faith in God. Living a life that is easy does not affect your faith in God. God acts in mysterious ways, His ways are not your ways, as such God asks only for your faith, that you put your mind and body completely in his word and live best you can adhering to that standard.

 

[Izdaari]

I will always seek truth, and follow Christ as best I can. But I know my understanding is not perfect, and will never be perfect in this life. Nor do I believe that any one faith tradition has a monopoly on truth. Though I am Protestant, I’ve found that there areas of theology that Catholics understand better, and that Orthodox understand better. (I would convert if I thought either of them had more of the truth overall, but I don’t at present think that. But I know I can learn from both.)

 

[CMatt25]

Have you stopped seeking truth or have you given up and just accepted your faith tradition without question?

No it because of the fact I have not stopped seeking that I have not given up and do not just accept my tradition without question.

 

[CMatt25]

I will always seek truth, and follow Christ as best I can. But I know my understanding is not perfect, and will never be perfect in this life. Nor do I believe that any one faith tradition has a monopoly on truth.

:clapping: Amen

 

[Bluegoat]

Why are you choosing to define faith as belief without evidence? It isn’t a catholic understanding of it, so there isn’t much point using against Catholics or other catholic Christians. You are arguing against an idea that isn’t claimed here.

 

[Adonia]

As a 54 year old, I now accept the faith as “a little child”. In my younger years and thinking about life, I thought that it could be this or it could be that, but not anymore. It all got to be too much! So, now I accept the teachings of the Roman Rite of Christianity and am trying my best to live a holy life. As far as the truth goes, we have it in Jesus Christ, Our Lord! It’s that simple.

 

[St_Francis]

You say it like it’s the first time someone has defined faith for you

It’s not the first time I have heard that, but I was thinking about the question originally asked when I read your post, and the contrast between your way of thinking and mine just hit me kind of hard.

The wording through me off a little but here’s my take, I have faith that the electrical workers will do their job correctly, and I have faith in my memory that I set my alarm. Does this mean I should make a huge leap to faith in an all knowing deity?

No, but what I am trying to show with this example of a teeny-tiny faith is that we do not even operate on scientific proof in most of our daily lives, and that we do not need material proof in order to have a *reasonable *faith.

You define faith as “knowledge without proof.” You believe that in order to have knowledge something must be proven to scientific standards, and most people who say that sort of thing also think that believing something that hasn’t been scientifically proven is unreasonable. I just wanted to show that this is not the case, even for those who claim it to be.

Yes, I understand you believe what you think you know regardless of any claims otherwise. My issue is that faith does not require proof. I still don’t know if we’ve addressed that yet.

Faith does not require scientific proof; however, it does need to be reasonable.

Well then, it may surprise that through my own personal faith introspection I have come to the opposite conclusion.

The questions I would put to you would be how and why did you come to that conclusion? (Not that you necessarily have to answer—just that those would be my questions, just as someone who thinks as you do might ask me the same questions.)

When? I’m actually pretty happy with my current situation. Am I an exception that proves the rule?

No, it seems like a lot of people feel happy with either actual or practical atheism. I don’t really understand that myself because apart from sensing that there was a lot missing from that life, life didn’t really seem all that good, lots of broken hearts, lots of meaningless activity. But a lot of the time back then I probably would have said I was happy despite that, because I went through a long period where I just accepted that life was like that, and I had a lot of things going for me, like education, good health, etc., that by the standards of practical atheism were good things.

It is to this standard which faith is defined against. If you do not have this for knowledge that you contain then that knowledge is based of of faith.

You wrote this in response to my saying this: To prove irrefutably that God exists by the scientific method, which is designed only for the material world and doesn’t work for the supernatural realm, is indeed impossible, but that is the standard to which most who ask the question require the proof to adhere. You prove my point

How other people live does not affect your faith in God. How society perceives you does not affect your faith in God. Living a life that is easy does not affect your faith in God. God acts in mysterious ways, His ways are not your ways, as such God asks only for your faith, that you put your mind and body completely in his word and live best you can adhering to that standard.

This is all true, but seeing that living within God’s teachings is better for individuals as well as for societies is *additional *evidence that what He has taught is true.

 

[humble_maid]

As a 54 year old, I now accept the faith as “a little child”. In my younger years and thinking about life, I thought that it could be this or it could be that, but not anymore. It all got to be too much! So, now I accept the teachings of the Roman Rite of Christianity and am trying my best to live a holy life. As far as the truth goes, we have it in Jesus Christ, Our Lord! It’s that simple.

Peace be with you,

Clearly you and I have learned this taking the long way home. I have been seeking truth here and there and found that if you approach the Lord like ‘a little child’ he will open your eyes and understand His words. Now I too, accept the teachings of the CC; from time to time, I still research for greater understanding; I learn much from CAF. While I am still discerning, I continually keep faith with the Holy Church.

 

[wmscott]

Have you stopped seeking truth or have you given up and just accepted your faith tradition without question?

Yes, I have stopped seeking the truth for I have found the fullness of truth in the beautiful Catholic Faith. 1Tim 3:15- “if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth”. I now utilize my time learning and understanding all the truths contained in the deposit of faith.

 

[edwest2]

First, the Church tells us that God can be known by Natural (non-faith) reason.

I was listening to Catholic Radio last Saturday. Speaking was a Jewish convert to Catholicism. He related how some young people who studied what the Church taught about the world regarding people and relationships realized it was true in a practical way. This caused them to also realize that if the Church teaches the truth about practical living then perhaps the Church also teaches the truth about spiritual things. This caused some to return to the Church or enter the Church.

The interviewer then asked this man if he thought the Church was a truth telling institution. And, of course, he said, it is. So, on two levels: our day to day life and relationships, and our relationship with God, the Church is telling the truth.

Those who believe need to read their Bible and their Catechism. Ignorance about the Bible is ignorance of Christ. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance and understanding before you read, and I suggest not reading a lot in one sitting.

Finally, there are many intriguing ideas out there, all competing for our attention. Be sober, be vigilant. Or as a sign on a Church I passed read, Avoid truth decay. Read your Bible.

God bless,
Ed

 

[lynx]

It’s not the first time I have heard that, but I was thinking about the question originally asked when I read your post, and the contrast between your way of thinking and mine just hit me kind of hard.

I understand. There a lot of different ideologies out there

No, but what I am trying to show with this example of a teeny-tiny faith is that we do not even operate on scientific proof in most of our daily lives, and that we do not need material proof in order to have a *reasonable *faith.

You define faith as “knowledge without proof.” You believe that in order to have knowledge something must be proven to scientific standards, and most people who say that sort of thing also think that believing something that hasn’t been scientifically proven is unreasonable. I just wanted to show that this is not the case, even for those who claim it to be.

It is true that there are many things I take on faith during the day. It is also true that I can be wrong in my faith because I don’t truly know. I might have faith that everyone is going to obey traffic lights, but all it takes is for one person to run a red light to refute my faith as false. Not in all cases mind you, but in this specific instance of faith.

Faith does not require scientific proof; however, it does need to be reasonable.

Why? There are those that feel the virgin birth isn’t true, and then there are those that hold fast to the belief that it is. What is the cut off point for what is reasonable or what isn’t? Or, is it the case that faith can apply at all times if someone has it.

The questions I would put to you would be how and why did you come to that conclusion? (Not that you necessarily have to answer—just that those would be my questions, just as someone who thinks as you do might ask me the same questions.)

Sure. Most of these are quick and off the top of my head, I didn’t have a lot of time to collectively gather and articulate everything perfectly.

1. Logically, the claim of a God is so outrageous that it requires a large amount of supporting evidence that I have yet to see or experience.
2. Any time I have needed God for anything, either as a child or teen, I have been remorsefully let down. The lack of my prayers being answered at every given point was a large set back in my faith. The less God made himself known to me the less known to me he became.
3. I’ve never felt the Holy Spirit. I have never had my mind and body entered by Him such that I have the faith and knowledge to believe.
4. My education has let me take into scope the world in a secular manner. The more I observed, the more I saw that religions are tantamount to tradition and superstition. Sociologically and and anthropologically, all religions dance to the same subtle beat, they all look for the same answers to the same questions, they all revolve around tradition, they all evolve to fit the times and they all rely on a higher power. Some of these are gross simplifications, but lets just say I can see past the smoke and mirrors.

My intent in this was not to offend, but just to answer your question.

No, it seems like a lot of people feel happy with either actual or practical atheism. I don’t really understand that myself because apart from sensing that there was a lot missing from that life, life didn’t really seem all that good, lots of broken hearts, lots of meaningless activity.

The difference between you and me then is that I feel life has intrinsic meaning outside of God.

You wrote this in response to my saying this: To prove irrefutably that God exists by the scientific method, which is designed only for the material world and doesn’t work for the supernatural realm, is indeed impossible, but that is the standard to which most who ask the question require the proof to adhere. You prove my point

Yes, some people require scientific evidence to differentiate knowledge from faith.

This is all true, but seeing that living within God’s teachings is better for individuals as well as for societies is *additional *evidence that what He has taught is true.

The use of the term “better” is relative in this context. I would say that if you’re gay that you are not better off. I see this as a protectionist force. If everyone lives the same way, adhering to the same morals, then life becomes simpler, which is great for a variety of reasons. However, this is not the world we live in, and there are many moral structures in the world. These differences in morality only support the idea the morality is relative to the culture, and not intrinsic to people. Therefore, I believe this goes to show that what He taught is true if you’re believer that He is always right.

 

[Publisher]

Have you stopped seeking truth or have you given up and just accepted your faith tradition without question?

My particular faith tradition first precepts is to study every subject when it comes to religious belief…we can never know enough…we can never stop wanting to learn…to read the stories of others Journey and be reminded that the Hand of God is active in many lives and only awaiting to be discovered as the Light Within in others…

I once in a while will seek to gleen insight by reading Thomas A Kempis, “Imitation of Christ”…I found a small leather volume I have with “Testament of Devotion” on a small table next to where I sit with my Bible and devotional material are a constant presence to me in the morning as I sit and drink my coffee.

One of our Queries asks something to the effect…“Do you seek to always learn of the things of God?”

A resounding "No.’ to the question…everything I read and study calls me to go Deeper into study…to see the Hand of God in all things…I suspect we will always be on a quest for Truth…eternity is a long time but I dought it will contain all that can still be learned “in the Presence”.

 

[Publisher]

I should learn to spell…“doubt”.