Having a hard time feeling sorry for offending God. (God is perfectly content)

[Ben_Sinner]

Recently I have been reflecting that God is perfectly content in himself and nothing I do will take away any of that.

So when I sin, I used to think “This hurts God’s feelings”, and was able to feel more sorrow for my sins. Now that I realize that when I sin, it is ‘offensive’ to God, but he isn’t actually hurt by it. If I were to fall off the face of the universe, it wouldn’t bother him one bit. So it seems like God is indifferent to me because he doesn’t lose any contentedness with my lack of love for him.

 

[PumpkinCookie]

Recently I have been reflecting that God is perfectly content in himself and nothing I do will take away any of that.

So when I sin, I used to think “This hurts God’s feelings”, and was able to feel more sorrow for my sins. Now that I realize that when I sin, it is ‘offensive’ to God, but he isn’t actually hurt by it. If I were to fall off the face of the universe, it wouldn’t bother him one bit. So it seems like God is indifferent to me because he doesn’t lose any contentedness with my lack of love for him.

We cannot harm God even in the slightest, of course. He is unlimited, invulnerable, does not change, has always and will always know everything and everyone. To be offended is a weakness, an imperfection, a human foible. There isn’t anything that could “bother him one bit.”

However, we harm ourselves and others when we sin. Sometimes it can be easy to trade our dignity for pleasure, or our honor for material gain. But, we enfeeble our characters and hack away at our nobility when we do these things. We offend ourselves, and when we harm others, we offend them too!

But, don’t just feel sorry. Make amends, do the right thing, apologize to those you have harmed.

I think you’ve discovered, here, the heart of the problem with the modern Christian understanding of a “relationship” with God where loving feelings and tender concern are exchanged in some sort of cosmic-telepathic relay. Love flourishes among human beings because we are imperfect, uncertain, weak, and vulnerable. We love each other because we have to, we need each other to survive. We are able to love each other because we are uncertain about the future (necessary for mutual trust and commitment). We are able to love because there is mutuality, sharing of a common experience and nature.

God is not able to trust us. He can’t because he knows everything. Nothing is uncertain. He does not need us. He cannot “want” us. It is impossible for us to “love” him, and impossible for him to “love” us (at least in a way resembling what we call “love” on a day-to-day). We cannot give him a gift, we cannot share the truth about ourselves since he already knows, he is utterly invulnerable to us so we cannot know the deepest truth about him either. There is no mutuality, there cannot be “love.”

Can one have a “relationship” with…reality? Can one have a relationship with being itself? I guess…but it doesn’t resemble anything like a loving relationship.

Does this sound deflating? I’ll admit it is certainly NOT romantic like many Christian theologies. But, I find it peaceful. I’m no more than a thin vapor of a split second of God’s dream. As my physical self is insignificant to the universe as a whole, as though I’ve never existed at all, my spiritual self is almost nothingness in relationship to the Creator. All of us will “fall off the face of the universe” so very soon. We’re all just barely here, and isn’t it wonderful and miraculous!?

 

[Crusaderbear]

Just the idea that something as omnipotent and powerful as God exists and allows us to exist should keep us from willingly offending him as much as possible!

Even mighty mountains are worn away 1 grain at a time, I’d rather not hasten the process by falling away willingly, no matter how ‘insignificant’ a grain I may be!

 

[JuanFlorencio]

Recently I have been reflecting that God is perfectly content in himself and nothing I do will take away any of that.

So when I sin, I used to think “This hurts God’s feelings”, and was able to feel more sorrow for my sins. Now that I realize that when I sin, it is ‘offensive’ to God, but he isn’t actually hurt by it. If I were to fall off the face of the universe, it wouldn’t bother him one bit. So it seems like God is indifferent to me because he doesn’t lose any contentedness with my lack of love for him.

So, now that the concept of your god has changed in your mind, how are you going to behave from today?

 

[Faxero]

God might not feel particularly threatened whenever we sin, but he does seem to experience pain; remorse, regret, and anger in reaction to our sins, as shown numerous times in scripture.

 

[Tomdstone]

We cannot harm God even in the slightest, of course. He is unlimited, invulnerable, does not change, has always and will always know everything and everyone. To be offended is a weakness, an imperfection, a human foible. There isn’t anything that could “bother him one bit.”

I thought that sin was an offense against God?

 

[Tomdstone]

God might not feel particularly threatened whenever we sin, but he does seem to experience pain; remorse, regret, and anger in reaction to our sins, as shown numerous times in scripture.

My reading of Scripture is similar.

 

[PumpkinCookie]

I thought that sin was an offense against God?

In my opinion God cannot be offended, but I’m not offering Catholic answers here since I’m not Catholic. To me, sin is “missing the mark” and/or failing to live up to our greatest potential.

 

[Faxero]

In my opinion God cannot be offended, but I’m not offering Catholic answers here since I’m not Catholic. To me, sin is “missing the mark” and/or failing to live up to our greatest potential.

If God can’t be offended, then why did he send a great flood to E.X.T.E.R.M.I.N.A.T.E virtually all of Mankind???

Why did he make the Egyptians suffer to the extent they did?

Why was Israel commanded to exterminate the nations who ruled the Promised Land…? !

If God can’t be offended, then why would he bother sending anyone into eternal fire???

Yes, when we commit sin, we certainly are ‘missing the mark’, and we refuse to live up our god-given potential. Yes, we’ll suffer for ‘missing the mark’, for sure…! :doh2::blackeye::doh2:

 

[pianistclare]

Christ is fully human and fully Divine.
Of course He can have His feelings hurt.
On earth, He expressed sorrow, He mourned, He was angry at the money changers, He loved His earthly parents, He cared for His friends and others…all human emotions.
In this way God truly understand what we go through.

 

[PumpkinCookie]

If God can’t be offended, then why did he send a great flood to E.X.T.E.R.M.I.N.A.T.E virtually all of Mankind???

Why did he make the Egyptians suffer to the extent they did?

Why was Israel commanded to exterminate the nations who ruled the Promised Land…? !

If God can’t be offended, then why would he bother sending anyone into eternal fire???

Yes, when we commit sin, we certainly are ‘missing the mark’, and we refuse to live up our god-given potential. Yes, we’ll suffer for ‘missing the mark’, for sure…! :doh2::blackeye::doh2:

I’m not Catholic, these are just my opinions

1. Based upon our best archaeological and geological evidence, there is no reason to believe there was ever a worldwide flood that killed everyone except Noah’s family and the creatures on an ark.
2. Again, no solid evidence for the stories in the exodus.
3. He didn’t. I believe God’s commandments are written into nature, and peace is the natural state of man. The Israelites went to war for the same reason many nations do the same: they wanted to conquer and dominate.
4. He doesn’t. The concept of hell is intellectually, morally, and spiritually bankrupt. I’d be happy to talk your ear off about it, but suffice it to say I do not believe God sends anyone to hell…permanently that is.

Yes, we do suffer by missing the mark. Sin causes pain and suffering for all involved, and some not involved! Sometimes we suffer without missing the mark too. Not necessarily because God supernaturally imposes it upon us, but because our expectations of life exceed the given reality.

God is not a child, so easily wounded and offended. He sheds no tears and is never surprised. God is not pusillanimous, quick to take offense and placated by obsequious appeal. God is not a lover of vain flattery. God is not a raging lunatic whose anger can be aroused by dust and ashes and quelled only by the spilling of innocent blood.

He is beyond us. His dignity far surpasses any human being, and the most noble creature is nothingness by comparison.

I’m not Catholic, there are just my opinions

 

[Faxero]

1. Based upon our best archaeological and geological evidence, there is no reason to believe there was ever a worldwide flood that killed everyone except Noah’s family and the creatures on an ark.
2. Again, no solid evidence for the stories in the exodus.
3. He didn’t. I believe God’s commandments are written into nature, and peace is the natural state of man. The Israelites went to war for the same reason many nations do the same: they wanted to conquer and dominate.

God is not a child, so easily wounded and offended. He sheds no tears and is never surprised. God is not pusillanimous, quick to take offense and placated by obsequious appeal. God is not a lover of vain flattery. God is not a raging lunatic whose anger can be aroused by dust and ashes and quelled only by the spilling of innocent blood.

The simple act of feeling negative emotions does not make one childish. One’s way of handling such emotions, as well as how he reacts to the ‘triggers’ of such emotions, helps define and foster character.

God may experience negative emotions, but he does not react to them childishly. Being the most powerful being, all of his decisions, including his decisions involving the punishment of men, have value.

 

[RPRPsych]

ANOTHER ZEN PARABLE

This story concerns Poshu and Moshu, the wise monks under the tutelage of Master Wushu, whom we have already encountered in an earlier thread.

One day, to his chagrin, Master Wushu came upon them quarreling again.

“What is going on?” he demanded. “Are you, once again, fighting over who is the greatest?”

The two monks hung their heads. It was Poshu who spoke first.

“Master Wushu,” he replied, “Moshu and I were arguing about the true nature of God. Does he truly feel wrath, or is he perfect and impassive?”

“He does not,” Moshu said stoutly. “He is perfect, and what is perfect cannot change.”

“Be quiet!” Poshu retorted. “The holy books speak of God being displeased by our evil deeds, and punishing sinners in His anger.”

“Let us discuss this over milk and cookies,” Master Wushu suggested.

After Moshu and Poshu had been pacified by several chocolate chip cookies, Wushu taught them true wisdom.

“God’s true essence and nature,” he said, “are incomprehensible not only to man, but to any rational being. The best one can do is to use certain descriptors of what He is, such as saying that He is all wise, or what He is not, such as saying that He is without sin. However, at times, we must resort to human terms to convey certain aspects of moral teaching to the less learned. When we speak of God’s anger, we merely refer to His carrying out the decrees of His justice. When we speak of his feeling sorrow, we refer to the fact that He loves us, and that our sins separate us from His love.”

“That is crystal clear, Master Wushu,” Poshu replied. “I now understand.”

“Yes, Master Wushu,” Moshu chimed in. “Anyone with an IQ over that of a pumpkin would understand your wise words.”

“A pumpkin?” Master Wushu burst out laughing. “You are a funny monk, Moshu. The Laughing Buddha is proud of you.”

INTERPRETATION

God is not offended by pumpkins, for He created them without brains. However, when men with reason and rational souls deliberately close their minds to the Truth, He is grieved. Yet, He is patient with us, not wanting that any soul should be lost.

 

[Tomdstone]

… when men with reason and rational souls deliberately close their minds to the Truth, He is grieved.

Some Roman Catholic amateur philosophers tell us that God is unchangeable so He would not be able to grieve under that scenario.

 

[PumpkinCookie]

ANOTHER ZEN PARABLE

This story concerns Poshu and Moshu, the wise monks under the tutelage of Master Wushu, whom we have already encountered in an earlier thread.

One day, to his chagrin, Master Wushu came upon them quarreling again.

“What is going on?” he demanded. “Are you, once again, fighting over who is the greatest?”

The two monks hung their heads. It was Poshu who spoke first.

“Master Wushu,” he replied, “Moshu and I were arguing about the true nature of God. Does he truly feel wrath, or is he perfect and impassive?”

“He does not,” Moshu said stoutly. “He is perfect, and what is perfect cannot change.”

“Be quiet!” Poshu retorted. “The holy books speak of God being displeased by our evil deeds, and punishing sinners in His anger.”

“Let us discuss this over milk and cookies,” Master Wushu suggested.

After Moshu and Poshu had been pacified by several chocolate chip cookies, Wushu taught them true wisdom.

“God’s true essence and nature,” he said, “are incomprehensible not only to man, but to any rational being. The best one can do is to use certain descriptors of what He is, such as saying that He is all wise, or what He is not, such as saying that He is without sin. However, at times, we must resort to human terms to convey certain aspects of moral teaching to the less learned. When we speak of God’s anger, we merely refer to His carrying out the decrees of His justice. When we speak of his feeling sorrow, we refer to the fact that He loves us, and that our sins separate us from His love.”

“That is crystal clear, Master Wushu,” Poshu replied. “I now understand.”

“Yes, Master Wushu,” Moshu chimed in. “Anyone with an IQ over that of a pumpkin would understand your wise words.”

“A pumpkin?” Master Wushu burst out laughing. “You are a funny monk, Moshu. The Laughing Buddha is proud of you.”

INTERPRETATION

God is not offended by pumpkins, for He created them without brains. However, when men with reason and rational souls deliberately close their minds to the Truth, He is grieved. Yet, He is patient with us, not wanting that any soul should be lost.

LOL.

Grief is a spiritual imperfection resulting from an imperfection of essence. It is the dismay we feel when we are made to realize our impotence or powerlessness as we fail to achieve our wills. We cannot always achieve what we will for a variety of reasons, but can the same be said of the omnipotent omniscient Creator? I doubt it!

God is not able to be patient, since patience requires uncertainty. God has always and will always know the outcome of everything. God has neither expectations nor estimations, everything is known to him, and therefore patience is impossible. Further, patience is also the result of impotence in some sense.

For instance, if you must be patient with me here, it is the result of impotence in my powers of reason, or impotence in your powers of explanation, or more likely both. We both will that I understand something, but we cannot bring it about because we are not omnipotent. God, however, always achieves his will and nothing can frustrate his ends. There cannot be patience without frustration, and who can frustrate the omnipotent and omniscient Creator?

 

[john_doran]

Recently I have been reflecting that God is perfectly content in himself and nothing I do will take away any of that.

So when I sin, I used to think “This hurts God’s feelings”, and was able to feel more sorrow for my sins. Now that I realize that when I sin, it is ‘offensive’ to God, but he isn’t actually hurt by it. If I were to fall off the face of the universe, it wouldn’t bother him one bit. So it seems like God is indifferent to me because he doesn’t lose any contentedness with my lack of love for him.

ideally, one feels sorry for one’s wrongdoing because one has done wrong, not because one’s wrong has made someone else feel bad.

for example, i ought to feel contrition for some infidelity that i commit against my wife, even if she never discovers it (and can thus can never be (consciously) hurt by it); and i should feel contrition for some sin i commit against my infant son, even though he lacks the capacity to understand it. because what i did was wrong.

if you’re sorry for something you did only because someone is (reasonably understood to be? actually professing to be? otherwise obviously?) hurt by what you’ve done, then your emotions and your moral intelligence are…problematic.

 

[fred_conty]

Recently I have been reflecting that God is perfectly content in himself and nothing I do will take away any of that.

So when I sin, I used to think “This hurts God’s feelings”, and was able to feel more sorrow for my sins. Now that I realize that when I sin, it is ‘offensive’ to God, but he isn’t actually hurt by it. If I were to fall off the face of the universe, it wouldn’t bother him one bit. So it seems like God is indifferent to me because he doesn’t lose any contentedness with my lack of love for him.

God’s love for us is perfect. The Father sent his only Son into the world for our sake because he loved us. Thru Jesus, we became one with God thru his living within our souls because he loved us and wanted union with us. His greatest act of love was …“what greater love does a man have then to lay down his life for his friends.”

Sin frustrates all the above. It gives ingratitude where deep love should have be given. It is a turning away from the one who loves us the most.

“I offered my back to those who struck me,
my cheeks to those who tore at my beard.
I did not cover my face against insult and spittle.”
Isaiah 50;6

Isaiah gives a clear picture of what we mean to him.

 

[ffg]

Recently I have been reflecting that God is perfectly content in himself and nothing I do will take away any of that.

So when I sin, I used to think “This hurts God’s feelings”, and was able to feel more sorrow for my sins. Now that I realize that when I sin, it is ‘offensive’ to God, but he isn’t actually hurt by it. If I were to fall off the face of the universe, it wouldn’t bother him one bit. So it seems like God is indifferent to me because he doesn’t lose any contentedness with my lack of love for him.

Insert love (action) and you have your connection within the Person in power to the ‘care’ being researched.

How do you show you love your loved ones?

In the case of God and you, you are.

That is not indifference.

 

[jochoa]

Recently I have been reflecting that God is perfectly content in himself and nothing I do will take away any of that.

So when I sin, I used to think “This hurts God’s feelings”, and was able to feel more sorrow for my sins. Now that I realize that when I sin, it is ‘offensive’ to God, but he isn’t actually hurt by it. If I were to fall off the face of the universe, it wouldn’t bother him one bit. So it seems like God is indifferent to me because he doesn’t lose any contentedness with my lack of love for him.

Reflecting on the distinct persons of the Holy Trinity helped me grow in desire to not offend God, may it also help you:

Sure, God, as the beginning and the end of all things, is perfectly content in himself and nothing we can do will take away any of that. However, the offenses against God that caused God to become man to help man become God causes great pain to God made man, Jesus. And since God creates us to be perfectly content as he is perfectly content, then every time we sin, we limit the presence of the Holy Spirit in each of us, thereby offending God and hurting our own self.

Can you feel peace from knowing your sin causes the agony of Jesus? I can’t.
Perhaps consider that is not indifference on behalf of God, rather it is indifference on your behalf to not know and love God on a more personal level.

May the light of Christ help you overcome your struggles in perceiving the horrible consequences of sin, and may the peace of Christ be with you always.

 

[fladreamer]

Christ is fully human and fully Divine.
Of course He can have His feelings hurt.
On earth, He expressed sorrow, He mourned, He was angry at the money changers, He loved His earthly parents, He cared for His friends and others…all human emotions.
In this way God truly understand what we go through.

Are you saying Jesus’ incarnation was necessary for God to truly understand our human condition? If so, doesn’t that contradict God’s presumed attribute of omniscience?