Having a personal relationship with Mary

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Those who promote the idea or “draw dangerously close to the idea” that Mary is part of the Trinity, or equal to It’s persons, do not understand Catholic Teaching. Mary may be the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven and Earth, but she was created by God. Being given a singular privilege at birth sets her apart from us human beings, but she is still a handmaid of the Lord (Luke 1:48) who rejoices in God, her savior (Luke 1:47). Blessings to you.

I know how most (at least reasonable) Roman Catholics perceive her, I was just concerned because (referring to the post I was originally quoting) speaking of her as equal with the Holy Trinity, whether it be in honor or otherwise, comes across as something that might lead to meaning a person either would unintentionally go or unintentionally invite others to go. To mix the temporal with the co-eternal is to tread a dangerous ground. That was simply my worry.

I think the order goes: Holy Trinity, Mary, Angels and Saints. She is below the Trinty (infintely below it in fact just as we all are) but Queen of the Cosmos, sitting on a throne beside her Son. The son of David, Solomon, sitting on the Davidic throne alongside his mother the Queen Bathseba, prefigures this (from typology).

Scripture speaks often of those sitting beside the throne, though not within the context of the Virgin Mary doing so. When asked by James and John, the sons of Zebedee, to be seated beside His throne, Christ replies: “…to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father” (Matt 20:23). That position, however, is prepared by the Father for Christ (Hebrews 8:1, 12:2), who will someday sit on that throne (Matt 25:31; Luke 1:32-33). Nowhere is the Virgin Mary ever granted that position.

Isn’t the Hebrew word for Holy Spirit a feminine word? Does Mary not ‘guide’ Holy Church today as the Mother of the Church? Think about it.

I have thought about it, and that’s quite frankly rather heretical, if I’m understanding you correctly.

 

[Sandalwood]

Isn’t the Hebrew word for Holy Spirit a feminine word? Does Mary not ‘guide’ Holy Church today as the Mother of the Church? Think about it.

please tell me you’re not saying what it sounds like you’re saying…

 

[bearcat101]

What would you say if knowing the Blessed Mother brought you into an even deeper relationship with her Son?

It’s every good Christian’s desire to grow closer to our Lord. Guess what? Mary is the freeway to His heart! As both Mother and Queen, Mary who is without sin (otherwise would not be the Mother of Jesus), can set us on the right path. Who would not want a relationship like that? We only have to ask.

Whatever your answer be, Our Humble Mother still does work ‘behind the scenes’ for our souls whether we ask her to or not.

I don’t think I agree with that. Scripture tells us that in the song of Mary, she professed God as her Savior. She wouldn’t need a savior if she were without sin. Paul also tells us that All have fallen short of the grace of God. Sounds like a pretty convincing argument to me that only Jesus was human and without sin. And where does Queen come from? I would not be comfortable at all with that title. Again, nowhere in the Bible is Mary or anyone for that matter called queen of heaven. In fact Mary isn’t even mentioned past the Book of Acts. Also, how could anyone bring us closer to our Lord than our own desires to be close to him?? It is his desire that we seek him and walk with him, why would he need anyone to facilitate that?? It makes no sense.

 

[roselily]

I don’t think I agree with that. Scripture tells us that in the song of Mary, she professed God as her Savior. She wouldn’t need a savior if she were without sin. Paul also tells us that All have fallen short of the grace of God. Sounds like a pretty convincing argument to me that only Jesus was human and without sin. And where does Queen come from? I would not be comfortable at all with that title. Again, nowhere in the Bible is Mary or anyone for that matter called queen of heaven. In fact Mary isn’t even mentioned past the Book of Acts. Also, how could anyone bring us closer to our Lord than our own desires to be close to him?? It is his desire that we seek him and walk with him, why would he need anyone to facilitate that?? It makes no sense.

Oh! Christ give us His mother as our Mother! She is our Mother!

John 19:25-27
Meanwhile, standing near the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, here is your son.’ 27Then he said to the disciple, ‘Here is your mother.’ And from that hour the disciple took her into his own home.

 

[bearcat101]

Oh! Christ give us His mother as our Mother! She is our Mother!

John 19:25-27
Meanwhile, standing near the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, here is your son.’ 27Then he said to the disciple, ‘Here is your mother.’ And from that hour the disciple took her into his own home.

Ok, so how does that make her queen of heaven? I guess I don’t follow your reasoning on this.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Oh! Christ give us His mother as our Mother! She is our Mother!

John 19:25-27
Meanwhile, standing near the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, here is your son.’ 27Then he said to the disciple, ‘Here is your mother.’ And from that hour the disciple took her into his own home.

That was Christ entrusting her into the care of the apostle John. That was it. You don’t hear anything more about her after that aside from one or two mentions in Acts, as bearcat pointed out.

 

[LilyM]

Ok, so how does that make her queen of heaven? I guess I don’t follow your reasoning on this.

What else is the mother of a Davidic King who is also King of Heaven?

In Israel the King’s wife wasn’t queen - because he usually had more than one wife and giving one the title Queen would cause jealousy among them.

Instead it was the Gebirah (mother of the King) who was Queen Mother. So it is with Mary.

“It is significant that every mother of a Davidic king is listed along with her son in Sacred Scripture. The name of each Davidic Queen Mother is given in the introduction to each reign of the Davidic Kings of Judah *.”

agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Mary%20The%20Queen%20Mother%20of%20the%20New%20Davidic%20Kingdom.htm

Compare this to how often the wives of these kings are mentioned. Who really had prestige and power among royal women in Israel?*

 

[roselily]

Yesterday on EWTN radio there was a commentary in which the speaker talked about the value of having a personal relationship with Mary. I guess I had never considered my requests for Mary’s intercession as developing a personal relationship with her – I had always reserved that for Christ. I think the commentary was done by Cardinal Rigali. As a Mormon I didn’t even think about having a personal relationship with Jesus – that was something I wanted to develop with the Father through Jesus. Is that the same way we Catholics normally would look at our relationship with Mary?

Mary Mamma would help us also, and it’s fantastic; And do you know we have a Mother?-Mary.

Dear Mama! You will always look after brothers sisters in Christ, will you not?:angel1:

 

[Vixit]

please tell me you’re not saying what it sounds like you’re saying…

I would never say anything contrary to the teachings of Holy Church…

 

[FOFEBA]

Joseph Campbell, who is a pre-eminent scholar on mythology and religion has pointed out that at the time of Jesus there were numerous prophets who claimed to be of virgin birth. The one remarkable thing about these prophets was that they were all of Greek origin. This seems to have been a fad in Greece at the time.

So, without giving away the answer, I would pose the question: Which apostolic writings mention the virgin birth? Which of those were apostles from Greece?

 

[Leeann]

Isn’t the Hebrew word for Holy Spirit a feminine word? Does Mary not ‘guide’ Holy Church today as the Mother of the Church? Think about it.

Whether the Hebrew word for the Holy Spirit is a feminine word or not, scripture tells us clearly that that God is Spirit and is to be worshipped in spirit. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit…no room for Mary there.

If the Holy Spirit is not guiding what you refer too as the Holy Church, then it is simply not a Christian organization.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Joseph Campbell, who is a pre-eminent scholar on mythology and religion has pointed out that at the time of Jesus there were numerous prophets who claimed to be of virgin birth. The one remarkable thing about these prophets was that they were all of Greek origin. This seems to have been a fad in Greece at the time.

So, without giving away the answer, I would pose the question: Which apostolic writings mention the virgin birth? Which of those were apostles from Greece?

First, I don’t know what this has to do with anything related to the topic of the thread or thread’s train-of-thought, it seems like a shot in the dark here, but I’ll offer a brief response any way…

If you’re trying to say, “Aha! Luke talks about the virgin birth, and he was a Gentile, ergo he’s connected to some of these guys over here in Greece who said they were virgin born!”, I would say: Luke was not the only apostle to mention the virgin birth.

Matthew, born and raised as a Jew, mentions that before Joseph and Mary were betrothed (in other words, when she would be expected to be a virgin) she was “found to be with child from the Holy Spirit” (Matt 1:18). In other words, she was found pregnant, and not by another man but by the Holy Spirit. Matthew even adds for us that Joseph “knew her not until she had given birth to a son” (Matt 1:25). In other words, they did not have sexual relations before the birth of Christ. Matthew, a Jewish apostle, confirms the virgin birth.

Likewise, if you’re going to try to point to these Greeks and say there’s a Greek connection, you’ll have to first go to the prophecy of the virgin birth in Isaiah, which is quoted in Matthew 1:23 (and not in Luke). Was Isaiah, a devout Jewish prophet, ransacking pagan prophets and stealing their ideas saying, “The Jews will buy into this!” Theological consistency tells us no.

 

[Reuben_J]

Doesn’t that rather draw dangerously close to the idea that the Virgin Mary is part of the Trinity, or on equal with the persons of the Trinity?

Would that be a problem? Nobody is saying she is part of the Trinity nor is she equal to them.

Scripture uses such language as you talk about in relationship to God, but only in reference to the Persons in the Trinity.

Are you sure of this that it cannot be applied to another human being?

Ultimately it is what we make it to be; we can use all kind of words but know what we are talking about is better than using them and let someone else decide what they mean.

 

[Marie5890]

Not that I ever had a problem with the idea of a personal relationship, but it take awhile to warm up to that I wanted one. I was pretty apathetic.

When I realized just how close Our Lord was with His mother, a natural desire to know her more closely was just as real for me as is my desire to know Him more closely as well.

 

[Reuben_J]

What else is the mother of a Davidic King who is also King of Heaven?

In Israel the King’s wife wasn’t queen - because he usually had more than one wife and giving one the title Queen would cause jealousy among them.

Instead it was the Gebirah (mother of the King) who was Queen Mother. So it is with Mary.

“It is significant that every mother of a Davidic king is listed along with her son in Sacred Scripture. The name of each Davidic Queen Mother is given in the introduction to each reign of the Davidic Kings of Judah *.”

agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Mary%20The%20Queen%20Mother%20of%20the%20New%20Davidic%20Kingdom.htm*

Compare this to how often the wives of these kings are mentioned. Who really had prestige and power among royal women in Israel?

Oh, how could we miss this in our Bible study? And to think that a Catholic, who most probably doesn’t know her Bible could tell us this, isn’t that scandalous?

Seriously, that explanation is Biblically founded and in context. Jesus as a descendant of King David and Jesus as King (not of this world but in the next) could only infer logically that Mary, his mother, is a Queen Mother. And where does she reign? Not here on earth because Jesus said so but in heaven. So rightly she is a Queen of heaven.

Come on people, give her what she deserves.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Yesterday on EWTN radio there was a commentary in which the speaker talked about the value of having a personal relationship with Mary. I guess I had never considered my requests for Mary’s intercession as developing a personal relationship with her – I had always reserved that for Christ. I think the commentary was done by Cardinal Rigali. As a Mormon I didn’t even think about having a personal relationship with Jesus – that was something I wanted to develop with the Father through Jesus. Is that the same way we Catholics normally would look at our relationship with Mary?

Good question. I suspect I should be doing a lot more in this area, and also feel that St. Maximilian Kolbe is the saint I should draw closest to. The main problem is that as a former Protestant I find the repetitive nature of the Rosary to be tedious. I’m afraid I have some sympathy with the country Catholic lady who optimised it by the use of “ditto” - Our Father, Hail Mary etc. ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto …

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Ok, so how does that make her queen of heaven? I guess I don’t follow your reasoning on this.

She is Christ’s Mother! ***Christ’s ***Mother. She is worthy of all her titles. She is Queen of Heaven and Earth because of her role as the Mother of God. Why NOT Queen? I don’t follow any other kind of reasoning.

That was Christ entrusting her into the care of the apostle John. That was it. You don’t hear anything more about her after that aside from one or two mentions in Acts, as bearcat pointed out.

Okay, Jesus was just talking to John. So, I guess in His parables or addressing the pharisees, He was only talking to or about a handful of people. When He spoke to the woman about adultery, was He just talking to her about that grave sin? When He spoke to those who were self-righteous, could he have only meant the self-righteous at that time, or all who are self-righteous? The WORD of God was on Jesus’ lips to be given to all of us. I don’t see John 19:25-27 as the exception.

Peace and God Bless to you both.

 

[david_ruiz]

She is Christ’s Mother! ***Christ’s ***Mother. She is worthy of all her titles. She is Queen of Heaven and Earth because of her role as the Mother of God. Why NOT Queen? I don’t follow any other kind of reasoning.
Okay, Jesus was just talking to John. So, I guess in His parables or addressing the pharisees, He was only talking to or about a handful of people. When He spoke to the woman about adultery, was He just talking to her about that grave sin? When He spoke to those who were self-righteous, could he have only meant the self-righteous at that time, or all who are self-righteous? The WORD of God was on Jesus’ lips to be given to all of us. I don’t see John 19:25-27 as the exception.

Peace and God Bless to you both.

Then when Jesus promised us the Holy Spirit,that he would guide us ,bring things to remembrance , give us power , making us priests -that was for everybody, right? When he said preach the gospel to all, forgiving ,binding that was for all of us to do .right ? Whenever we break bread , we can all do it in remebrance of Him, right? When he said confess your faults ,one to another , that could be between any two people ,right?

 

[david_ruiz]

Oh, how could we miss this in our Bible study? And to think that a Catholic, who most probably doesn’t know her Bible could tell us this, isn’t that scandalous?

Seriously, that explanation is Biblically founded and in context. Jesus as a descendant of King David and Jesus as King (not of this world but in the next) could only infer logically that Mary, his mother, is a Queen Mother. And where does she reign? Not here on earth because Jesus said so but in heaven. So rightly she is a Queen of heaven.

Come on people, give her what she deserves.

Interesting .though the few scriptures I looked up lists both father and mother.The mother is “mother” not queen. Indeed in oriental culture ,because of many wives ,the mother because of her “stability” of position, had more authority than wives of the king. Israel was influenced by her neighbors, but not always with God’s condoning. Lineage of both parents was important ,biblically to show Davidic line to messiah ,hence both Joseph and Mary have their Davidic lineage .I am just not so sure it was but for the messiah’s lineage and not because of … "queenhood’…The biblical fact is Jesus is King of Kings .We are His Bride .Jesus is not oriental, does not have more than one bride ,therefore ,in a more traditional sense ,we are His “Queen”…As far as having relationships ,you bet bet we need them all . However , you can"t get much better than having an “in” with the groom, but if some prefer the “mother-in-law”, well then what does that say about you and your groom ?

 

[thomas_jd]

The Total Consecration according to Saint Louis de Montfort is the perfect vehicle for a personal relationship with Mary. To Jesus thru Mary!