Having a problem with Adam and Eve

[grannymh]

Depending on what date you assign to Adam and Eve, there is a limited time in which to develop the genetic variation observed in modern human populations. We can measure average mutation rates in humans and in similar species. The number of mutations and the average mutation rate give us a handle on probable dates. Are you aware that there are over 4,000 alleles of some human genes? That number of different alleles take time to develop.

rossum

Yes, I am aware of the genes involved with the immune system which obviously develop new alleles as populations migrate etc.

Considering that the 32 alleles before the Homo/Pan split did not have a copy right, it should be obvious that given similar migrations over centuries, similar alleles would appear in unexpected places in smaller non-studied populations. In other words, there is no natural law which prevents needed alleles from appearing.

The perennial question is – Does the “evidence” warrant the conclusion?

Personally, I am in the minority as to which century, a fully-complete human nature appeared in action. Having unsubscribed to both Science and Nature, I now have switched my study to the first three chapters of Genesis. I have a long way to go in this area. However, the adventure is worth it.

 

[HelenRose]

I’m basically considering leaving Catholicism, I’m on the fence. Consider this:

1. It is rather firmly established that human population never dropped anywhere below a few thousand individuals, let alone two. Evolution doesn’t really has much to do with this thing. Someone’s simply done the maths.
2. Real Adam and Eve as our progenitors are absolutely necessary for the doctrine of original sin to make sense.
3. Therefore, a problem.

Now I know of this theory that postulates there was a group of a few thousand individuals without human souls among whom God chose Adam and Eve and gave them immortal souls. Adam and Eve’s descendants mated with some of the ‘not-really-human’ individuals. God gave immortal souls to all children born thusly.

Everything seems fine, Catholicism and science again not in conflict.

But there are still some difficulties, and I would welcome any answers helping me in understanding the issue.
The most important issue, which I would like to consider here, is this: it is always assumed when such theories are given, that the earlier population of ‘unensouled’ humans eventually died out, given that most children were ensouled.
However, this is only an assumption. If we accept such a scenario, can we be 100% sure that no such single hominid is alive today (or even in Jesus’ times)? If so, how can we be sure? Wouldn’t accepting this outline allow for theories which would assume mentally ill, or mentally disabled people are therefore not ensouled? If not, on what grounds?

How would you answer my doubts? Also, perhaps monogenism (biological) is not absolutely disproved? Although I would think it is. Is it so that the the maximum bottleneck of a few thousand individuals happened for the homo sapiens - but the ‘bottleneck’ for earlier hominids could have once been two (Adam and Eve)? I know next to nothing about all this, so just looking for answers.

It is my understanding that all modern humans are the same specie and carry the same genes - differing only in minor things such a skin color. This means that we are all brothers and sisters - the same family - the same ancestors. The beautiful story in the Genesis tell this scientific discovery in the words of beautiful poetry - an ancient truth that has only recently, through the discovery of genetics, we can begin to understand.

How did this develop over the period of 200,000 years or more? We will never fully know or understand. But the writer of Genesis with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and with no knowledge of genetics, understood what no other culture in the world really wanted to know. The knowledge that whatever our color, whatever our language, whatever our customs, no matter where we were born - we are ONE. We are all beloved children of God.

 

[grannymh]

It is my understanding that all modern humans are the same specie and carry the same genes - differing only in minor things such a skin color. This means that we are all brothers and sisters - the same family - the same ancestors. The beautiful story in the Genesis tell this scientific discovery in the words of beautiful poetry - an ancient truth that has only recently, through the discovery of genetics, we can begin to understand.

How did this develop over the period of 200,000 years or more? We will never fully know or understand. But the writer of Genesis with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and with no knowledge of genetics, understood what no other culture in the world really wanted to know. The knowledge that whatever our color, whatever our language, whatever our customs, no matter where we were born - we are ONE. We are all beloved children of God.

I am not at top speed today. However, I would like to try to help with a question.
What are your beliefs about God?

And the first science thing is that the firmly established bottle neck that could not go lower than such and such population is based on a man-made modern formula which gives somewhat reasonable estimates. This is because it is difficult to find firm physical facts going millions of years backwards. Plus, the reasonable estimates do not cover every geographical location on planet earth. Maybe two lovers were hiding in the bushes.

It is important to recognize probabilities in science; but, one cannot project an universal negative. There is too much space and time going backwards.

 

[grannymh]

I’m basically considering leaving Catholicism, I’m on the fence. Consider this:

1. It is rather firmly established that human population never dropped anywhere below a few thousand individuals, let alone two. Evolution doesn’t really has much to do with this thing. Someone’s simply done the maths.
2. Real Adam and Eve as our progenitors are absolutely necessary for the doctrine of original sin to make sense.
3. Therefore, a problem.

Now I know of this theory that postulates there was a group of a few thousand individuals without human souls among whom God chose Adam and Eve and gave them immortal souls. Adam and Eve’s descendants mated with some of the ‘not-really-human’ individuals. God gave immortal souls to all children born thusly.

Everything seems fine, Catholicism and science again not in conflict.

But there are still some difficulties, and I would welcome any answers helping me in understanding the issue.
The most important issue, which I would like to consider here, is this: it is always assumed when such theories are given, that the earlier population of ‘unensouled’ humans eventually died out, given that most children were ensouled.
However, this is only an assumption. If we accept such a scenario, can we be 100% sure that no such single hominid is alive today (or even in Jesus’ times)? If so, how can we be sure? Wouldn’t accepting this outline allow for theories which would assume mentally ill, or mentally disabled people are therefore not ensouled? If not, on what grounds?

How would you answer my doubts? Also, perhaps monogenism (biological) is not absolutely disproved? Although I would think it is. Is it so that the the maximum bottleneck of a few thousand individuals happened for the homo sapiens - but the ‘bottleneck’ for earlier hominids could have once been two (Adam and Eve)? I know next to nothing about all this, so just looking for answers.

I am not at top speed today. However, I would like to try to help with a couple of questions.
What are your beliefs about God?
Does God exist?
In what manner or position?

And the first science thing is that the firmly established bottle neck that could not go lower than such and such population is based on a man-made modern formula which gives somewhat reasonable estimates. This is because it is difficult to find firm physical facts going millions of years backwards. Plus, the reasonable estimates do not cover every geographical location on planet earth. Maybe two lovers were hiding in the bushes.

It is important to recognize probabilities in science; but, one cannot project an universal impossibility. There is too much space and time going backwards.

 

[HelenRose]

I am not at top speed today. However, I would like to try to help with a couple of questions.
What are your beliefs about God?
Does God exist?
In what manner or position?

And the first science thing is that the firmly established bottle neck that could not go lower than such and such population is based on a man-made modern formula which gives somewhat reasonable estimates. This is because it is difficult to find firm physical facts going millions of years backwards. Plus, the reasonable estimates do not cover every geographical location on planet earth. Maybe two lovers were hiding in the bushes.

It is important to recognize probabilities in science; but, one cannot project an universal impossibility. There is too much space and time going backwards.