Having Abortion Legal

[Ilovejesus1234]

Can I have the opinion of allowing abortion to be legal? I think it is their personal choice what they do, even though I do not support it, and in fact think it is totally wrong and horrible. I do not want to outlaw abortion mainly because i do not want them to do it at home and injure themselves. I support the legalness of this, as I do with gay rights, they have a right to do anything they want even though I think it is wrong and I do not support it.

I wanna repeat I do not support the things they do but I do support the cause to allow them to make their own decision and learn themselves, as God allows evil I want to allow this.

Let us not argue at this but be reasonable adults and not let religion affect our behavior.

 

[odhiambo]

Supposing a nation was so misguided as to want to legalise the killing of malformed infants, or even normal infants but wrong sex, a practise which I understand is actually taking place in some communities. Would you be sympathetic to such a law?
Would you not do your part to see that such a law does not see the light of day?
It is the same thing, the fact that the baby has not been born is neither here nor there.

 

[Trekker47]

I think the problem is that somewhere along the line, abortion stopped being considered murder. If you consider that the child in the womb is a person (which as Catholics, we do), then murder is exactly what it is, only it’s worse because that child is completely defenseless. In fact, the people who vote against abortion are the only defense that child has.
And of course, it’s not that a mother has the right to decide that her child dies, otherwise it would be fine if she killed her child after he was born.

 

[JRKH]

Can I have the opinion of allowing abortion to be legal?

Yes you can - but I think that to hold such a view shows a malformed conscience on the matter.
I do not mean the above to be an attack or slander but let’s consider the reasons you have stated.

I think it is their personal choice what they do, even though I do not support it, and in fact think it is totally wrong and horrible.

Why do you think it is wrong and horrible?
The answer to this question is very important to answering whether this is a “personal choice” that should be legal.
After all there are many things that we could classify as “personal choice” but are illegal.

I do not want to outlaw abortion mainly because i do not want them to do it at home and injure themselves.

A fair point - but - what about the injury to the Child. You do believe that the unborn fetus is a child - correct?

I support the legalness of this, as I do with gay rights, they have a right to do anything they want even though I think it is wrong and I do not support it.

Do you feel this way about ALL matters? That they (and we) should have the freedom to do anything they (we) want?
We have to remember that ALL law - ALL restriction impinges on someone’s right to “do anything they want”. So this alone really isn’t a valid notion upon which to base one’s position.
One must ask WHY should people be permitted or restricted in a given thing.

I wanna repeat I do not support the things they do but I do support the cause to allow them to make their own decision and learn themselves, as God allows evil I want to allow this.

Even when, by so doing, you are adding legitimacy to the killing of the innocent?

Let us not argue at this but be reasonable adults and not let religion affect our behavior.

Agreed. We need to keep the conversation civil.

Just to add to the above, Please know that I have walked this same path that you are - asked the same questions and held the same position that you express. However, on further scrutiny I found that - in the case of abortion - I could not justify the position in the face of the slaughter of the innocents. Abortion is wrong and should be outlawed.

Please note that this does NOT remove the person’s ability to choose to have an abortion any more than making drugs illegal has prevented people obtaining drugs, or making theft illegal has stopped people from stealing.

Peace
James

 

[1ke]

Can I have the opinion of allowing abortion to be legal?

Can you hold this opinion? Yes, free will exists.

Can you hold this opinion and be in harmony with Church teaching on the matter? No.

And if one is not assenting to Church teaching, is one putting one’s soul in a dangerous place? Yes.

In other words, it seems your real question is this, “Is abortion a subject on which the Church does not teach definitively leaving open legitimate differences of opinion?” No.

 

[tawny]

My belief is that you cannot be Catholic & Pro Choice.

 

[thistle]

Can I have the opinion of allowing abortion to be legal? I think it is their personal choice what they do, even though I do not support it, and in fact think it is totally wrong and horrible. I do not want to outlaw abortion mainly because i do not want them to do it at home and injure themselves. I support the legalness of this, as I do with gay rights, they have a right to do anything they want even though I think it is wrong and I do not support it.

I wanna repeat I do not support the things they do but I do support the cause to allow them to make their own decision and learn themselves, as God allows evil I want to allow this.

Let us not argue at this but be reasonable adults and not let religion affect our behavior.

If you believe the Church teaching on abortion then no you cannot have the opinion to allow abortion to be legal. The two are contradictory.
Either you accept the Church teaching or you don’t. It doesn’t work both ways.

 

[BrunoMaria]

Agreed. We need to keep the conversation civil

Of course we do. Civil and in love.

But then; …
what’s all that talk about legal or not legal. We all know, that human laws differ a lot. What’s legal and normal in one country, is illegal and wrong in another.
Hence all that legal or not legal talk, is nil and nothing before God. To a Christian God’s law must be first - all human laws secondary. If we mind this simple precondition, all is ok.
This answers among all others, also the ever so redundant question, wether or not abortion is legal.
Who would honestly think that to destroy a human life in the womb of a mother is in order and disregarded by God who wanted this person? This person will NOT be destroyed by God too, but he or she will be in God’s realm, accusing those who did not allow him or her to live.
Do all who live have to be happy that they where allowed by humans to live and be thankful to humans that they have not be „ABORTED“ which is a terrible word for murder in the mother’s womb?
In that case we all must be thankful, that we where not aborted.

Actually the whole theme is not subject of discussion or opinion and decision, but as clear as the „question“ of >should I kill that child I accidentally met on the road, or not? It’s my decision!<.
Hyenas might raise that question. But did we in the meantime sink to the standard of Hyenas?

Yours
Bruno

 

[unstoppable_II]

… I support the legalness of this, …

Have you considered that the law might be wrong, just like it was when slavery was legal? The Declaration of Independence recognizes three basic rights: life, liberty, and property [aka, pursuit of happiness], and they are in that order so that the right to life takes precedence over the right to liberty, and liberty above property. As in the Dredd Scott case, the Supreme court placed one man’s right to property [the slave] above the slave’s liberty. One hundred plus years later, the court made the exact same mistake by placing the mother’s right to privacy [liberty] above the child’s right to life. How could they have gotten it more wrong?

Where I thought you were going with this is not wishing to “force your views on others.” This argument falls flat when you realize that in an organized society, someone’s views will always be forced on others. That’s what laws are for.

as I do with gay rights, they have a right to do anything they want even though I think it is wrong and I do not support it.

If you believe in equal rights, then what do “women’s rights,” “gay rights,” etc., mean? Either they are redundant or they are violations of the principle of equal rights for all.

I wanna repeat I do not support the things they do but I do support the cause to allow them to make their own decision and learn themselves, as God allows evil I want to allow this.

Does God call us to tolerate evil?

Let us not argue at this but be reasonable adults and not let religion affect our behavior.

I can’t believe this statement. What you are saying is that you believe that Jesus established his church and died a horrible death so that our behavior wouldn’t be affected?

 

[mrsjennymulhall]

When someone reminds me (as Ireland is poised to repeal the eight amendment) that abortion is ‘safe’ and legal in other ‘progressive’ countries, I recall the sorts of things that were perfectly safe and legal in Germany only 60 years ago. The stroke of a legislator’s pen cannot turn black into white, nor wrong into right, in my opinion.

 

[Corki]

Can I have the opinion of allowing abortion to be legal? I think it is their personal choice what they do, even though I do not support it, and in fact think it is totally wrong and horrible. I do not want to outlaw abortion mainly because i do not want them to do it at home and injure themselves. I support the legalness of this, as I do with gay rights, they have a right to do anything they want even though I think it is wrong and I do not support it.

I wanna repeat I do not support the things they do but I do support the cause to allow them to make their own decision and learn themselves, as God allows evil I want to allow this.

Let us not argue at this but be reasonable adults and not let religion affect our behavior.

Yes, you can have that opinion but that opinion is inconsistent with being a faithful Catholic.

Choices have consequences. Making something illegal does not change the fact that a person can still choose to do it. People make all kinds of decisions to do illegal and immoral things. Some people choose to rob banks, some to molest children and some to kill unborn babies. It is not only inconsistent with the faith, but purely illogical to believe that the first two should be illegal but the last should not.

 

[CatholicRaven]

I’m curious what you think laws are for? What is the purpose of government and law?

Why bother to have any laws at all, if everyone should just do whatever they want?

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

Yes you can - but I think that to hold such a view shows a malformed conscience on the matter.
I do not mean the above to be an attack or slander but let’s consider the reasons you have stated.

Why do you think it is wrong and horrible?
The answer to this question is very important to answering whether this is a “personal choice” that should be legal.
After all there are many things that we could classify as “personal choice” but are illegal.

I think it is wrong because you are sucking out and killing an innocent, yet to be born child, it is very selfish of the mother to do so, but, she has free still and I can’t stop that.

A fair point - but - what about the injury to the Child. You do believe that the unborn fetus is a child - correct?

Yes I believe it is living and a soul.

Do you feel this way about ALL matters? That they (and we) should have the freedom to do anything they (we) want?
We have to remember that ALL law - ALL restriction impinges on someone’s right to “do anything they want”. So this alone really isn’t a valid notion upon which to base one’s position.
One must ask WHY should people be permitted or restricted in a given thing.

No I believe some rights should be limited such as weed legalization or drugs. Seeing as how we don’t want to be a nation that is a chicken with its head cut off and high pretty much all the time.

Even when, by so doing, you are adding legitimacy to the killing of the innocent?

Yes they are innocent, but it is the their right.

Agreed. We need to keep the conversation civil.

Closing comments, I believe it is a very sad thing to happen and the killing of the fetus, as much as I am against it, I have to allow their right to do what they want, if not they might do it at home and hurt themselves. If they are going to do it, they should do it with safety and later repent for it. But for me I don’t think it is something I would ever forget. This is my own opinion, I believe it would be wrong to allow this matter to be legal AND agree with the act of killing that innocent baby.

I have to say though, that I agree the law should be legal but I am strongly against the killing of the fetus that is defenseless. I should probably ask a priest about this matter I am sorta afraid I might be yelled at on the forums…

Just to add to the above, Please know that I have walked this same path that you are - asked the same questions and held the same position that you express. However, on further scrutiny I found that - in the case of abortion - I could not justify the position in the face of the slaughter of the innocents. Abortion is wrong and should be outlawed.

Please note that this does NOT remove the person’s ability to choose to have an abortion any more than making drugs illegal has prevented people obtaining drugs, or making theft illegal has stopped people from stealing.

Peace
James

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

This is what i believe that it is bad if you’re catholic and you do this:

Vote for abortion being legal and support the action

I believe it is fine if you do this:

Vote for abortion legalness and reject the action

I think most people think I am with the top action not the second.

 

[CatholicHockey7]

Can I have the opinion of allowing abortion to be legal? I think it is their personal choice what they do, even though I do not support it, and in fact think it is totally wrong and horrible. I do not want to outlaw abortion mainly because i do not want them to do it at home and injure themselves. I support the legalness of this, as I do with gay rights, they have a right to do anything they want even though I think it is wrong and I do not support it.

I wanna repeat I do not support the things they do but I do support the cause to allow them to make their own decision and learn themselves, as God allows evil I want to allow this.

Let us not argue at this but be reasonable adults and not let religion affect our behavior.

chastity.com/article/why-agonize-over-an-abortion-both-science-and-faith-lead-us-to-the-truth
chastity.com/article/what-about-the-woman
chastity.com/article/the-back-alley-abortion-objection

The problem with the concept of “personal choice” is, as others have noted, you aren’t making a choice about your life. You are choosing for another.

As my stepdad always used to say, “your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.”

You simply cannot be Catholic and hold a pro-choice stance. Even though you say the practice is reprehensible to you, you are still supporting it by voting in favor of it.

 

[CatholicHockey7]

This is what i believe that it is bad if you’re catholic and you do this:

Vote for abortion being legal and support the action

I believe it is fine if you do this:

Vote for abortion legalness and reject the action

I think most people think I am with the top action not the second.

Voting for it to be legal is supporting the action. You’re actively working to allow the murder of an innocent child.

 

[Contarini]

Can I have the opinion of allowing abortion to be legal? I think it is their personal choice what they do, even though I do not support it, and in fact think it is totally wrong and horrible. I do not want to outlaw abortion mainly because i do not want them to do it at home and injure themselves. I support the legalness of this, as I do with gay rights, they have a right to do anything they want even though I think it is wrong and I do not support it.

I wanna repeat I do not support the things they do but I do support the cause to allow them to make their own decision and learn themselves, as God allows evil I want to allow this.

Let us not argue at this but be reasonable adults and not let religion affect our behavior.

Not let religion affect our behavior? What on earth is the point of religion, then?

If you think abortion is the killing of a human person, as I do, then you can’t just say “it’s people’s business if they want to have an abortion.”

However, in my opinion there are reasons to take an approach other than legal coercion. I don’t see how you can believe abortion is murder and not want to see it limited and restricted, but it probably is true that a total ban is an unrealistic political goal and would have some very bad effects if it could be achieved. Better to work to overturn Roe v. Wade, ban late-term abortion, and so on–but far more importantly, we need to create a culture of life and a network of support for pregnant women so that no one feels the need to have an abortion.

Edwin

 

[Trekker47]

I think most people think I am with the top action not the second.

I think most of us understand your position, there might be a couple who don’t.

Even when, by so doing, you are adding legitimacy to the killing of the innocent?

Yes they are innocent, but it is the their right.

Well…no, not really. Nobody has any right to kill another human, it’s right there in the 5th commandment. I mean, that’s why murder is illegal after all. The right to life is the most basic, fundamental right there is, since it’s the right from which all other rights stem. Some rights are more important than others and take precedence, for instance you might take away a murderer’s right to freedom (ie. put them in jail) to protect everyone else’s right to life, because that’s the more important right. So here, the mother’s right to ‘bodily autonomy’ doesn’t supersede the child’s right to life.

Please note that this does NOT remove the person’s ability to choose to have an abortion any more than making drugs illegal has prevented people obtaining drugs, or making theft illegal has stopped people from stealing.

On the one hand, this is true. Yes, there will still be people who try to abort in private, just like people still steal. But, that doesn’t mean we should decriminalize theft, because by making it illegal you deter most people from stealing, and don’t give the impression that you, as a state/nation believe it’s alright. I guarantee you that there will be people who will only have an abortion if it’s legal, and every life we can save is a life worth fighting for.

 

[unstoppable_II]

This is what i believe that it is bad if you’re catholic and you do this:

Vote for abortion being legal and support the action

I believe it is fine if you do this:

Vote for abortion legalness and reject the action

I think most people think I am with the top action not the second.

This is known as a false choice. There are more than two choices. For one:

Vote against abortion and reject the action.

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

I agree we shouldn’t let abortion be a thing we just pass under our noses but we should try to convince them not to do it but if they want to do it and no matter how much we tell them not to, let them do it. It is their right as a human being to choose something that is sinful.

God allows all of us to have free will, and some people abuse it while others are more prudent with it. In this case abortion is an abuse of their own free will. We should try to convince them not to do it, but still make it their own free choice to do it.