Having children

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If I read scripture…When Jesus spoke of marriage, he said (and I paraphrase) The two will become one flesh.
PM.
Dear PM,
I will pray for you. Your situation sounds difficult. I will say that I am in a somewhat difficult situation myself. I will not go into my details- but let’s suffice to say that it will be best if I not get pregnant again. I have had 4 full term pregnancies- and one miscarriage.

Now- this is how I TRULY see it. I am a convert to this BEAUTIFUL faith we have! I am a convert because I believe this Church to hold the truth. My conversion came because of Perpetual Adoration- started going as a Baptist- long story- but I started telling people that it was like “Jesus was in there.” Years later when I found out what Catholics believed about the Eucharist- I nearly feel out of my pew! I KNEW this teaching was ABSOLUTELY true! And- if this is true- then all else has to be true because Jesus would not lead a Church in partial truth.

So- quickly regarding my 5 pregnancies- the one that was a COMPLETE AND TOTAL SURPRISE was the one that I conceived on the birth control pill while still a Baptist! The other 4 pregnancies were conceived when we knew I was fertile.

So- real quickly- if your wife were to go on birth control and this happened to her- then what? abortion? or trust in God’s providence???

Okay- now- we use NFP, but we are VERY CONSERVATIVE! We wait until WAY after my shift and after my discharge has dried up! Sorry for graphics! Anyway- it is possible- and it DOES work! But you can’t be loosey goosey with it! Not saying you are- anything is possible! But- the only SURE thing is abstinance! Beyond that- you are always taking a chance!

I hope you open your heart to the Chuch again! It TRULY is SO beautiful! And God knows best- and HE leads the Church! I know it seems harsh- but all of the other alternatives have really bad consequences attached to them! My opinion that it is best to be VERY conservative with NFP, pray a lot, and trust in God!

To the main question person- ??? Do you have a Perpetual Adoration chapel in your area? I would suggest spending an hour or more a week there with the intention for God to change your heart! God can create TRUE miracles! He still does that!

God Bless both of you!! And best wishes! :gopray2:
 
Yeah agreed here though you should have seen the look on my dads face when I told him last week I wasn;t having kids ever. He was like why!? I just told him the short answer I just donlt want them lol.

That being said though I think the oping is Catholic and unfortunately is seems that the Catholic teaching is that not wanting children and still getting married and then following through said want is wrong. And sadly like Pennitman pointed out there isn;t really much if any leeway in the rules.

Other then total marital abstinence it seems your other choice is to use nfp and have kids. I guess it comes down to the choice of which idea do you hate the least have a sexless marriage and living like brother and sister , or having kids. Of course the above would be assuming you want to adher to Catholic teachings.
I never wanted kids either. I had my tubes tied in my early 30s. I converted to Catholicism but eventually left and my disagreement on this issue was one reason. Deciding not to have kids is very personal. I’m sure my decision had a lot to do with my emotionally unavailable dad, the fact that I’m bipolar and sometimes can barely take care of myself. Those are deeply personal issues and my decision, IMO, shouldn’t mean I can’t marry (I have) and have a sex life. But, as I said, I left the Catholic church…🤷
 
Thank you for all your answers.
Some of you have horrified, scared me with your answers. I’m sorry but I felt so much hostility from some of you.
PM, you eased the hurt 🙂
One more question; if birth control is a mortal sin because it is used to not get pregnant then why wouldn’t abstinence be a mortal sin too? These two are the same thing. One is natural the other isn’t. I believe love with a spouse is the best love one can get. There are many children who are abandoned by their parents because they can’t feed or take care of them… These kids live from foster home to foster home or, in an orphanage (as I saw in the country I lived in South America).
I know someone who has 11 brothers and sisters. The mother had 4 miscarriages, so that means she was pregnant pretty much her whole life until she was old enough to not be able to, naturally.
These kids took care of each other, none of them lived a normal life because mom was overwhelmed with home and trying to take care of too many kids. Most of these kids, specially the ones born later, did not get the one on one with mom that the older kids got.
Do you think this is fair? They are Catholic and didn’t believe in controlling their pregnancies.
God gave us a mind to think for ourselves, we can’t misinterpret the Bible. Some of us don’t even understand what it really means. I noticed on the way some of you have argue on this blog. Please be kind to each other.
I pray to the Virgin Mary. She listens to me every time, if I was sining, why would she still answer my prayers?
And if I were to get pregnant tomorrow while on birth control then that’s what God wants. I will raise this child like a real gift from God because I don’t believe in abortion. I wouldn’t even kill a bug (believe me).
Something that I forgot to mention, maybe I didn’t want to mention this because it’s a touchy subject but my mother didn’t have any patients with me, she had my brother and ten years later she had me.
My brother did everything for me. Help me get ready for school, took me to school and picked me up. I remember like it was yesterday, my brother braiding my hair.
He ended up getting married and having only one child. A wonderful child that I adore so much. We all see each other every Sunday, for a late lunch. Some of my friends don’t see their parents for months at a time.
By the way my father was wonderful, and still is. As a kid, if I had a bad dream, he was the one waking me up and comforting me.
I don’t recent my mother. I have learned with the years to love her how she is. She’s a difficult woman, she likes things her way and that’s how we grew up, her way.
Maybe she’s one of the reasons why I don’t want to have children.
I’m now wondering if starting this blog was such a good idea.
Some of you have shifted my way of thinking and I was hoping that that wouldn’t happen. I don’t want to leave this religion because of my personal choice of having children. I don’t go to church on Sundays, I go when I can and ‘every time’ I walk into the house of God I feel this overwhelming feeling of happiness. What do you think that is? That is the love of God.
Thank you.
cat7
 
Populating the earth? Still a relevant consideration. You are aware, are you not, that birth rates are in a sharp decline right across the Western world? We are NOT keeping up our population levels, let alone increasing them.
So what. The rest of the world is taking up the slack. That’s why we have something called immigration.
 
One more question; if birth control is a mortal sin because it is used to not get pregnant then why wouldn’t abstinence be a mortal sin too?
Thank you for asking this question because I believe many people think this same thing. There is a HUGE difference between birth control and abstinence or periodic abstinence!

First of all, in scripture, it tells us that we will know the tree by the fruits it has produced. The fruit that has come from the tree of birth control is not good. Since birth control has been widely available, we have:

—4000 abortions each and every day in the United States! That is a HUGE number! Obviously, these birth controls are not working well.

—Another thing that most people have not put together is the fact that 1 in 4 adults walk around with VD! Now- remember- this is 1in 4 adults who have VD- WITH the availability of condoms! You know why?? Because condoms don’t always protect you! Something they did not share with us when they were saying, “Safe Sex!” 1 in 4 is a huge number, and teens are right there, too!!! So sad!

—Another thing that is not readily shared is the fact that birth control pill are actually NOT 99% effective in keeping conception from occurring! The percentage is much much lower. In order to keep that 99% without a bunch of negative side effects, the makers of these drugs have added an ingredient that makes the woman’s uterus not be able to hold a fertilized egg. So- the woman’s body aborts her tiny baby!

God creates things perfectly! We have seasons of the year, and our bodies have seasons! There is a season of fertility, and a season of infertility! Now- I mentioned my story above- so I won’t repeat it- but one might assume my pregnancies were back to back! They were not! My oldest- the one conceived on the birth control pill - will soon be 16! My youngest is 3. I have been off the birth control pill for 16 years! My other pregnancies ONLY occurred when we were together in the fertile times! We have NEVER had a “woops” on NFP! When used properly, it is 99% effective without all of the bad side effects and without putting chemicals in your body, and without making one think they are safe in certain areas when they are not!

I know someone who has 11 brothers and sisters. The mother had 4 miscarriages, so that means she was pregnant pretty much her whole life until she was old enough to not be able to, naturally.
These kids took care of each other, none of them lived a normal life because mom was overwhelmed with home and trying to take care of too many kids. Most of these kids, specially the ones born later, did not get the one on one with mom that the older kids got.

Something that I forgot to mention, maybe I didn’t want to mention this because it’s a touchy subject but my mother didn’t have any patients with me, she had my brother and ten years later she had me.
My brother did everything for me. Help me get ready for school, took me to school and picked me up. I remember like it was yesterday, my brother braiding my hair.
cat7

Okay- this gets SO sensitive, so I will try to be delicate! I have MANY friends with MANY children!!! One of my friends with- 6 or 7 herself- adopted 2 brother and sister teams from Russia! For a total of 4 adopted! She homeschools and drives a bus! These kids do SO many things! Everyone is happy and well adjusted!

I could go on and on about all of the fabulous large families! No doubt there are some that are having issues! But- I need to point out that your mother only had two that you mentioned, and she had some difficulties!

What I wish to say is that this life is hard! No getting around that. Someone close to me decided to not have children. Anyway- they went on this way for many years, and then they changed their minds! They tried and tried to get pregnant! And then it seemed all hell broke loose! One had a self owned business and was sued! Lost SO much! One ended up bipolar and was hospitalized. The other one lost their job. The mother-in-law got cancer and had to move in with them. They were an absolute MESS! Now- they won’t even go around family because it breaks the woman’s heart to see all the kiddos running around laughing and happy! And TRUE happiness comes from watching OTHERS be happy- so their parents- even though they have much less monitarily, are MILLIONAIRES of happiness! This couple has lost SO much of the monitary things they had- and now are alone and miserable!

This life will NEVER be perfect! That is for the next life! And sometimes when we attempt to make our lives perfect by keeping out things that might make it more difficult- children for instance- we might be signing ourselves up for other - more unwelcomed- challenges!

I’ll end here for I tend to be too wordy! Sorry for that! I would ask one thing. Please continue praying to Our Lady. She is very gentle! I also HIGHLY recommend Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Please try to listen with an open heart, though! If you close it, they cannot speak.

:gopray2:
 
It is very interesting what you explained about BC and abstinence.
Let me tell you that if I were to get pregnant I will not abort the baby. No way! How else do I convince you?
I don’t sleep around, in fact my husband has been the only one.
I started using BC when I was 17 because of heavy and unpredictable periods (I was never on time). So since then I could not get pregnant since I’ve been taking BC as directed with no missed days. I could not have become pregnant or fertilized the egg or whatever you want to call it.
Now do you think that maybe this doesn’t apply to me?
Now you are explaining the side effects of BC, meanwhile I’m talking about the mortal sin about it. You are way out of the subject.
I’m sure money (in the case that I don’t have) will make a lot of people happy but what I’m talking about is emotional happiness, money can’t buy that.
Please, I don’t want to hear how much bad luck people have because “they sin”. God doesn’t punish, and so I was told in the 7 years of Catholic schooling.
Read your letter again, it has nothing to do in response to what I wrote.
Maybe this will be the end of this blogging, some of you are way to negative. You need to go to church to learn about helping others with love, not negativity. It is bad luck, did you know?
 
T
One more question; if birth control is a mortal sin because it is used to not get pregnant then why wouldn’t abstinence be a mortal sin too?
God nor the Church has a mandate of how many women you should have, by participating in NFP a couple can engage in the marital act during a time when the woman cannot become pregnant, this is done for spacing children and or if a couple wants to wait a few years and or if a couple has had a few children and do not feel that they can support any more, by using NFP for these reasons it is not a sin.
 
It is very interesting what you explained about BC and abstinence.
Let me tell you that if I were to get pregnant I will not abort the baby. No way! How else do I convince you?
I don’t sleep around, in fact my husband has been the only one.
I started using BC when I was 17 because of heavy and unpredictable periods (I was never on time). So since then I could not get pregnant since I’ve been taking BC as directed with no missed days. I could not have become pregnant or fertilized the egg or whatever you want to call it.
Now do you think that maybe this doesn’t apply to me?
Now you are explaining the side effects of BC, meanwhile I’m talking about the mortal sin about it. You are way out of the subject.
I’m sure money (in the case that I don’t have) will make a lot of people happy but what I’m talking about is emotional happiness, money can’t buy that.
Please, I don’t want to hear how much bad luck people have because “they sin”. God doesn’t punish, and so I was told in the 7 years of Catholic schooling.
Read your letter again, it has nothing to do in response to what I wrote.
Maybe this will be the end of this blogging, some of you are way to negative. You need to go to church to learn about helping others with love, not negativity. It is bad luck, did you know?
The Pill causes abortions, that’s the problem that some of us probably have here. It doesn’t only prevent pregnancy, it ends it. It kills the child before you know you’re pregnant, fertilization can happen while on the Pill- missed days or not. It also messes with your body due to all the hormones that shouldn’t be there.

And we’re trying to be kind, we are. But the words are in print, there’s no tone, no emotion, so it comes off as cold. Some of us are really good at Christian Love.
 
Well really what it comes down to is the tiny itty bitty number of married people married christian especially that decide to not have kids will have little to no effect on that either. Personally I am not worried in the least though. Christians still make up a huge part of the world far more the Jews did back in ancient history when correct me if I am wrong they were in a firm minority.
Not wanting children does not mean “not open to life”. So my question is, the the method of “protection” you use fails what would you do about it? Have the baby or kill it?
 
I have to tell you cat7… I have NEVER seen anyone regret having too many children… but I know tons of people who lament not having enough children when they reach my age. Children are a blessing from God no doubt, it is hard work and at times can even be heartbreaking…
 
I think it is very important that each couple decides what they want for themselves. A successful marriage, to me, is not based on how many children a couple has.

Peace & happiness comes from within. Peace & happiness comes from living the Gospel of Jesus within our lives, and that is manifested how we treat each other…by becoming a reflection of God’s love. When one allow God’s Love to be infused in their soul, it is amazing how gentle one becomes, how patient, how understanding and how forgiving.

The gospel of Jesus is about love. It is about loving our Creator, and loving each other.

I have many friends who choose not to have children…and it is not for me to judge how they prevent it from happening. They are happy and at peace with their decision. One thing for sure, I will never preach to them that there use of NFP or ABC to control their procreation is sinful, or that their sex life is sinful because they do not want children or that they should be denied marriage because they do not want children. I also do not think of them as selfish or greedy.

My friends can “serve others” in many ways that I am unable to do, because I have 4 children. While my children are the greatest gift in my life, in all honesty, sometimes I envy their ability to “serve” in ways that I can’t.

We are all called to serve in some way or another, mine is to raise 4 children to the best of my ability with the help of my husband.

My advice to all couples is to do what is best for each other and to live out the Gospel of Jesus in your life, and that alone will guide your path.

Regards.
 
So since then I could not get pregnant since I’ve been taking BC as directed with no missed days. I could not have become pregnant or fertilized the egg or whatever you want to call it.
Please forgive me if I came off sounding harsh. That was certainly not my intention. I truly just wish to help you.

I will say this. Please do some research on the BC pill. You will find that it IS possible that you have conceived a child and the pill could possibly have just not allowed the implantation. You would never know if this happened.

And- I do know that it is possible to get pregnant on the pill, because I did before my conversion. I missed NO days- did not get sick, did not take it late- was not on antibiotic! I did nothing wrong! Now, somehow- Praise God- He allowed my daughter to somehow attach to my uterus- against the environment that the pill creates! She is truly a miracle.

And- I can’t remember if I said this or not- we were not planning on having any children either! God had other plans!

I truly wish the best for you, and please pardon again if my last post seemed harsh. I did not intend it that way! 🙂
 
One thing needs to be pointed out.

Several people on this thread have said they have “left the Church” because they disagree over moral teachings. They put it as if being non-Catholic frees you from God’s moral laws. It doesn’t.

Either the Church is right about God’s teaching on artficial contraception or it isn’t. If it is right, those who know the teaching and rejcet it, Catholic or not, will have to answer to God for their actions.

Being in or out of the Church has no bearing on the morality of the action.

God Bless
 
I have to tell you cat7… I have NEVER seen anyone regret having too many children… but I know tons of people who lament not having enough children when they reach my age. Children are a blessing from God no doubt, it is hard work and at times can even be heartbreaking…
Yes and many of those people that are in nursing homes have no one to visit them. There are some people that chose to not have children that now have no one to visit with them. There are some that put work and gaining “stuff” before their children and the wealth they worked so hard for has been taken by the government to pay for their care and their children are no where to be seen. So they are left without family and the money that they felt was so important to them this is so sad.😦 Some of the people (young and old) in the same nursing facility as my mother never have anyone to visit and if they had family to help them with daily chores would not need to be in an institution if only they had minimal help.

My mom has people that visit her daily. She had a major bi-lateral stroke and can not be safely cared for in our home.
 
One thing needs to be pointed out.

Several people on this thread have said they have “left the Church” because they disagree over moral teachings. They put it as if being non-Catholic frees you from God’s moral laws. It doesn’t.

Either the Church is right about God’s teaching on artficial contraception or it isn’t. If it is right, those who know the teaching and rejcet it, Catholic or not, will have to answer to God for their actions.

Being in or out of the Church has no bearing on the morality of the action.

God Bless
TO HIM THEREFORE WHO KNOWETH TO DO GOOD AND DOETH IT NOT, TO HIM IT IS SIN.
James 4:17
 
One thing needs to be pointed out.

Several people on this thread have said they have “left the Church” because they disagree over moral teachings. They put it as if being non-Catholic frees you from God’s moral laws. It doesn’t.

Either the Church is right about God’s teaching on artficial contraception or it isn’t. If it is right, those who know the teaching and rejcet it, Catholic or not, will have to answer to God for their actions.

Being in or out of the Church has no bearing on the morality of the action.

God Bless
Actually, it’s just the RC interpretation of moral law. I know you like to think you’re the only ones who are right, but I, for one, don’t agree with you. Neither do millions of other people. So you do what you think is right for you and the rest of us will do the same. 🤷
 
Not wanting children does not mean “not open to life”. So my question is, the the method of “protection” you use fails what would you do about it? Have the baby or kill it?
That is an easy one. 🙂 have the baby of course…my husband and I have already discussed this.
 
Yes, having children is a gift that must never be refused.

Marriage and sex is for procreation only. Anything else is a sin. People who do not want children should never be married and should never have an intimate relationship with the opposite sex.
 
Either the Church is right about God’s teaching on artficial contraception or it isn’t. …Being in or out of the Church has no bearing on the morality of the action.
I will echo Swan’s post with a repeat of a line I posted earlier in this thread:

“I had to ask myself if this is really God making the rule or Men making the rule for God.”

Being in or out of the Church makes all the difference…especially if you believe that it’s not God’s teaching but Man’s.

Based on all the evidence, looking at the history behind the Papal Birth Control Commission, How (and by whom exactly…Not Paul VI or the Holy Spirit as people think…) Humanae Vitae was written, the Minority Report, Bishop Karol’s letter to Paul VI, It’s man’s rule. For sure. Not infallable as you all may think.

Research this for yourself if you don’t believe me…it took a while, but it’s all relatively easy to find.
 
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