Having children

[Fairwinds]

I would disagree with this statement. Most Catholics are woefully ignorant of their faith, ESPECIALLY when it comes to sex and sexuality, and marriage. They are also woefully misinformed to believe that the Catholic faith is a buffet line that they can pick and choose what they like, and ignore the rest. They were never taught anything about these topics when they were growing up and “learning” the faith.

And most of them will never hear anything different during the homilies at Mass.

is there a minimum number of kids a couple must have before they stop being under Suspicion of being cafeteria Catholics by other Catholics?

is it four? five?

 

[aemcpa]

What are your opinion friends children before marriage?

There is no opinion to be had. The Catholic Church teaches unequivocally that sexual activity is always gravely immoral unless it occurs within the bonds of marriage.

 

[aemcpa]

is there a minimum number of kids a couple must have before they stop being under Suspicion of being cafeteria Catholics by other Catholics?

is it four? five?

I would say five. I know too many people who limited themselves to three, had #4 accidentally, and then promptly sterilized themselves.

 

[Fairwinds]

I would say five. I know too many people who limited themselves to three, had #4 accidentally, and then promptly sterilized themselves.

I’m surprised you count/keep tabs. it doesn’t seem to be anyone’s business (SD excepted), especially considering the myriad of legitimate reasons that might apply. if I were confronted with a challenge about not having enough children, it would turn out badly for my inquisitor.

 

[aemcpa]

I’m surprised you count/keep tabs. it doesn’t seem to be anyone’s business (SD excepted), especially considering the myriad of legitimate reasons that might apply. if I were confronted with a challenge about not having enough children, it would turn out badly for my inquisitor.

I do not count myself among those who are suspicious of those without children, but I do know several people in that group. I do also know of people, Catholics included, who are not shy in saying publicly exactly how many children they intend to have, and who outright state they sterilized themselves after hitting or exceeding that number. And that I do find offensive.

 

[Fairwinds]

I do not count myself among those who are suspicious of those without children, but I do know several people in that group. I do also know of people, Catholics included, who are not shy in saying publicly exactly how many children they intend to have, and who outright state they sterilized themselves after hitting or exceeding that number. And that I do find offensive.

I wouldn’t worry about the state of their souls, its above our pay grade.

 

[aemcpa]

I wouldn’t worry about the state of their souls, its above our pay grade.

I worry about the scandal it causes.

 

[Fairwinds]

I worry about the scandal it causes.

we must live in very different places. I never hear anyone discuss the things you’re saying. having or not having kids is more of a private thing out here in the west. I certainly don’t want to know the reasons why.

 

[aemcpa]

we must live in very different places. I never hear anyone discuss the things you’re saying. having or not having kids is more of a private thing out here in the west. I certainly don’t want to know the reasons why.

What does any of this have to do with the scandal of Catholics not only having themselves neutered and spayed but openly and publicly announcing it?

 

[Fairwinds]

What does any of this have to do with the scandal of Catholics not only having themselves neutered and spayed but openly and publicly announcing it?

interesting topic, but I’m not in the mood for argumentative questions. let’s just say I have my doubts you’re hearing what people are saying, if they’re saying anything at all, and interest in other peoples sex lives can’t be healthy.

 

[aemcpa]

interesting topic, but I’m not in the mood for argumentative questions. let’s just say I have my doubts you’re hearing what people are saying, if they’re saying anything at all, and interest in other peoples sex lives can’t be healthy.

I have had at least four people that I can think of off the top of my head tell me in the last six months, when just talking about our families in general, things like “Bobby’s our last. We made sure of that by getting Daddy snipped after I got pregnant with him.” or “Now we have our boy and our girl, so I’m getting my tubes tied while they’re in there taking her out.” Not sure what else I am supposed to “hear”, and if you don’t think it’s scandalous, you need to form your conscience, and if you think I’m making it up then you can feel free to keep thinking that with all the Western charm you can muster.

 

[CaliLobo]

I have had at least four people that I can think of off the top of my head tell me in the last six months, when just talking about our families in general, things like “Bobby’s our last. We made sure of that by getting Daddy snipped after I got pregnant with him.” or “Now we have our boy and our girl, so I’m getting my tubes tied while they’re in there taking her out.” Not sure what else I am supposed to “hear”, and if you don’t think it’s scandalous, you need to form your conscience, and if you think I’m making it up then you can feel free to keep thinking that with all the Western charm you can muster.

This shows yet another area in which the Catholic Church is out of touch with modern society. The Church, because its clergy don’t have children, does not fully appreciate the physical, temporal, and economic burden (especially TO WOMEN) of raising children in today’s society. The disconnect is so bad that most Catholics don’t follow the Vatican in this issue.

And why the disconnect? Here too, the Biblical basis against contraception is spurious.

Another example of historic oppression towards women by the Vatican.

 

[Abu]

CaliLobo #52
The disconnect is so bad that most Catholics don’t follow the Vatican in this issue.

The “disconnect” is due to ignorance, infidelity and the secularism into which the society has plunged and that morass into which the cafeteria Catholics have become immersed.

the Catholic Church is out of touch with modern society

False. Society has plunged into the abyss of confusion and anything goes. Christ was certainly “out of touch” with the temper of the times in which He founded the Catholic Church, taught against divorce and listed the sins which defile – see Mark 7:21.

the Biblical basis against contraception is spurious

.
False. This has been the clear and constant doctrine of the Catholic Church, as even the ancient Didache, a first century document that conveys the teaching of the early Church, affirms: “You shall not procure abortion, nor destroy a new-born child” (cf: Acts 2:42, *Catechism of the Catholic Church *2270-75).

Another example of historic oppression towards women by the Vatican.

False. The recognition of the Blessed Virgin Mary as the Mother of God and the recognition of many women as saints and as Doctors of the Church exposes the fallacy of that falsehood.

 

[jmcrae]

I think it is horrible to have children without getting married.

So do I. The best prevention is to keep sex within marriage. Birth control fails, and even legal abortion is dangerous, as we see in the Gosnell case.

Culture is going in wrong direction.

Can’t argue with that.

Couples need to plan well and then decide for children.

Couples can plan certain things, but they also need to let God be in charge, and don’t worry if things don’t work out according to the plan.

 

[jmcrae]

What does any of this have to do with the scandal of Catholics not only having themselves neutered and spayed but openly and publicly announcing it?

I agree with you that that’s totally weird. I have no idea how you fix it.

I would have zero idea how to react if anyone ever announced to me that they were having themselves neutered - I’d probably just pretend I didn’t hear them, and change the subject.

 

[zz912]

is there a minimum number of kids a couple must have before they stop being under Suspicion of being cafeteria Catholics by other Catholics?

is it four? five?

My aren’t we a snarky one. So are we unable to look a large population of Catholics, maybe an entire parish or two, and notice the number of families with just 1-2 kids, and be able to conclude there is vast amounts of the Catholic population who are ignoring (or have never been told) the Church teaching on contraception and sterlization?

Sure there could be some who are having fertility issues, but for the population as a whole, that isn’t the case at all. I’m not speaking about specific couples, but the population as a whole.

 

[zz912]

interesting topic, but I’m not in the mood for argumentative questions. let’s just say I have my doubts you’re hearing what people are saying, if they’re saying anything at all, and interest in other peoples sex lives can’t be healthy.

I also have no idea who you are talking to, but I can’t seem to get away from it. it seems like every single couple we know is talking about it. I can’t get away from it. Of course it is more topical right now as the bulk of our friends are in their peak child-bearing years, and most of them have 2 kids, so OF COURSE, their families are full, and they OF COURSE have the husband go get “snipped”.