Having close friends that are homosexual

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Jesus told the adulterous woman to go and sin no more after the crowd left. He loves us all but will not shrink from the truth. Although he ate with sinners, and we should too, it was with the intent of saving their everlasting souls by being their friend.
I too have gay friends. I stood as godmother to their son, which was maybe ill-advised (I was advised by a priest that it would be okay). But I could not in good conscience attend their wedding, no matter how much I love them.
 
Back that up with support.

Thread reopened.
Unfortunately many bellieve that because Jesus associated with sinners it meant he approved of sin. To them the only real sin is believing there is sin.

Of course when Jesus did encounter sinners he always told them to repent and sin no more -a message that if posted in CAF is greeted with screams of righteous indignation about being “judgemental”
 
Jesus told the adulterous woman to go and sin no more after the crowd left. He loves us all but will not shrink from the truth. Although he ate with sinners, and we should too, it was with the intent of saving their everlasting souls by being their friend.
I too have gay friends. I stood as godmother to their son, which was maybe ill-advised (I was advised by a priest that it would be okay). But I could not in good conscience attend their wedding, no matter how much I love them.
Some have such a hard time getting this, that there is a difference between dining with sinners and going to an event that actually celebrates their sin.

One of my gay friends, the woman who taught right next door to me for six years, knows my views. She’s read my letter to the editor that went in the paper recently and we’ve had conversations. Yet, we remain strong friends because, despite that, I never look down upon her as a person. She was at my house this last summer, in fact, for a b-b-q I had after leaving that school to take another job. I just explain my views very objectively and with Christian love. It doesn’t have to be an either or, either we support the sin or we shun the sinner.
 
Why are you talking about strippers now? What is it with you people and sex???

I’m talking about the sceario of preventing “the murder of a human being” as Herr. Awefulthings9 put it. Mind you this has come a loooooooong way off topic.
You spelled it wrong again. It’s Herr awfulthings9.
 
Unfortunately many bellieve that because Jesus associated with sinners it meant he approved of sin. To them the only real sin is believing there is sin.

Of course when Jesus did encounter sinners he always told them to repent and sin no more -a message that if posted in CAF is greeted with screams of righteous indignation about being “judgemental”
👍

Quoted for truth 😉
 
As you almost picked up on, these had very little to do with my imagination, and more to do with loose presentations of actual scenarios. However, as I noticed is your strategy, rather than answer, you attend to demonize me and my imagination.

It was in '89, a crucifix submerged in the artist’s urine. The name of the piece is offensive, so I’ll omit that. But, you stopped short - all three are “take offs”. Polygamous cults have had issues with young brides, and with the number of abortions we have each year, I don’t think scenario #2 is that uncommon at all.

Sure they do. The basic issues here are two. First, either the Church does or does not have the authority to define something as intrinsically evil. Since you questioned, in an earlier post, whether Paul even “got it right”, you are in essense questioning whether the Holy Spirit, who ultimately authored Paul’s epistles can be trusted. How can anyone suppose that you would obey the Church? The second issue is whether we should support those things we see as intrinsically evil. I proposed three scenarios where “loved ones” are doing disagreeable things. Your approach seems to be that we are “supporting the person”, not the action. So, why can you not give an answer as to why that approach would or would not apply here?

Many would. I asked you and Thomfra, though. At least Thomfra answered, albeit with a bit of humor as distraction.

Sure they do, and you failed to explain why they don’t. You are just backing down from the challenge.

Hmm. Since I didn’t call Thomfra “outrageous”, I gues you’re wrong. Anyway, how do you know my intent?

Honestly, you’ve avoided a lot of questions in this thread. I expected the same here. You have an indefensible position and you are presented with a challenge you can’t answer, you resort to avoiding the question or villifying the poster:

They are based on reality, and so is the ugly story of Satan being able to temp two men into a gravely offensive act of sexual rebellion against both natural law and God’s law. However, this is the proof in the pudding that, rather than give me a good explanation of why these scenarios are apples to your oranges, you prefer to try to attack the poster. I’m suprised at how judgemental this response is - you are, after all, doing the very thing you’ve accused others of doing, with is to act as the jury to another person’s actions. The difference is that, while my imagination came up with the “ugly stories”, the two guys at the wedding are acting theirs out.

I’ll ask you again if you would attend in situations one, two, or three. My prediction is that you’ll not only avoid answering again, but you’ll change the subject and launch another attack on my character.
I don’t consider your scenarios valid to the question at hand. You may conclude whatever you wish. It is an old ploy to insist upon an answer to a ridiculous question and then threaten that a non-response means you can’t answer. I won’t bite, sorry. And I would be best to not make assumptions about whether I obey the Church. You are most assuredly wrong I can assure you. You have taken out of context my statements about Paul, i was showing the logical inconsistency of the poster to me.
 
To you loving means loving the person and the actions. To us, it is possible to love the person without loving the actions. Why do you judge his character? Isn’t that what you were accusing others of doing? You have gravely confused love with tolerance and indulgence. You don’t have to tolerate one’s actions to love him. If my sister goes to parties on Friday night, I will show her my disapproval in some way. I can still love her by disapproving of her actions. In fact, disapproving of some actions is loving…the virtue of fraternal correction.
It is best not to speak for me. I do not claim that loving means loving the person and the actions. That could be absurd in many situations. Your method of not loving the actions is to reject the person by your own statement. You conflate the two. Why do I judge his character? I don’t judge his character. I asked him how he remotely thought that such vicious statements could be construed as other than hateful. You cannot slam the label truth on everything to avoid being rude and unfeeling. I am well aware of the admonishment being the main thrust of CAF. It is no where else in Catholicism by all my years of experience.
 
You are correct in that my family and I will not attend a wedding that we do not believe is valid.

As for frequenting their homes or otherwise socializing, of course we will. See Fr. Serpa’s advice posted earlier in this thread. We just won’t attend any gathering that could be construed as endorsing the invalid marriage (e.g., an anniversary party).

Where did you get the idea that I keep my children from thier family members, or that we don’t associate with non-Catholic family members? I said no such thing. We are all sinners so it would be impossible to keep my kids away from sinful people even if I wanted to – why, we couldn’t even take them to Mass!

But CELEBRATING or otherwise condoning sin is a different matter – which is why we didn’t attend the wedding.

Please don’t pity me. Instead, rejoice and be glad! I love Christ and am so happy to be a part of His one holy apostolic Church. 🙂
Well, I must say I am confused. I would assume that such people are in ongoing unrepentent sin as those engaging in open fornication. Doesn’t your visiting them condone this behavior? Does it not lead your children to believe that as long as they avoid the “endorsing of the illicit acts of marriage” they are free to otherwise associate with the person? I can find no logical consistency in your argument. But of course, I don’t have to, I’m not the one trying to live it out. As long as it makes sense to you, that is all that matters.
 
Unfortunately many bellieve that because Jesus associated with sinners it meant he approved of sin. To them the only real sin is believing there is sin.

Of course when Jesus did encounter sinners he always told them to repent and sin no more -a message that if posted in CAF is greeted with screams of righteous indignation about being “judgemental”
Bob, find me one person on this entire forum who will say that they believe that Jesus approved of sin and I will eat my hat.
 
I don’t consider your scenarios valid to the question at hand. You may conclude whatever you wish. It is an old ploy to insist upon an answer to a ridiculous question and then threaten that a non-response means you can’t answer. I won’t bite, sorry. And I would be best to not make assumptions about whether I obey the Church. You are most assuredly wrong I can assure you. You have taken out of context my statements about Paul, i was showing the logical inconsistency of the poster to me.
Sure. Quite a game of dodgeball we have going here.
 
Bob, find me one person on this entire forum who will say that they believe that Jesus approved of sin and I will eat my hat.
Earlier in this thread EXALT claimed Jeses would join in a celebration affirming sinful behavior should I send you some mustard?
 
Well, I must say I am confused. I would assume that such people are in ongoing unrepentent sin as those engaging in open fornication. Doesn’t your visiting them condone this behavior?
No. Why would it?
Does it not lead your children to believe that as long as they avoid the “endorsing of the illicit acts of marriage” they are free to otherwise associate with the person?
Well… yes. That is the example Jesus set for us, after all. He socialized with sinners while encouraging them to repent of their sin.
I can find no logical consistency in your argument. But of course, I don’t have to, I’m not the one trying to live it out. As long as it makes sense to you, that is all that matters.
I know that it’s a difficult concept for some people to grasp, but it is possible to love the sinner and hate the sin. 🙂 As previously stated, that’s the very example Jesus set for us to follow.

And me being happy is not “all that matters.” All that matters is that I follow Christ’s teachings, and that of His Church, to the best of my ability.
 
Unfortunately many bellieve that because Jesus associated with sinners it meant he approved of sin. To them the only real sin is believing there is sin.

Of course when Jesus did encounter sinners he always told them to repent and sin no more -a message that if posted in CAF is greeted with screams of righteous indignation about being “judgemental”
Truism! When Jesus was around them, sinners repented (Zacheus, the woman at the well, etc.). They immediately knew they were in God’s presence and they knew they had sinned. They didn’t purposely continue on with their sinful behavior. They were ashamed and repented, just like many of us…
The ones who didn’t repent killed Jesus.
 
So what are your opinions?
It is important to get a handle on what exactly is occuring and what exactly will follow, since these afflicted have diminished ability to discern and trust.

You are correct, and your/our stance is to act and persuade in a such a way that sets an example to those caught in this very subtle trick.

I would not go to a “wedding”. Because exactly, it is not a Sacrament bestowed by God that these two will receive. God is not presiding as He set the law that this act is an abomination. Since satan eagerly fills the void in rituals made by man, then it becomes just that, a cult ritual with satan presiding.

By your not attending you are standing firm in the midst of unpopularity and not being in “vogue” and sending the message of your caring for this person by not remaining passive to social acceptance.

You need also to distance yourself from those who are obstinate in this habitual sin.(Sirach)

Sorry, but there is nothing to do in this case but for everyone to administer therapy for this affliction in the form of good advice such has on how he can rid himself of this habit through the fruits of the Church, through prayer, and especially he will find a shield through the Rosary, help from the Saints, especially St. Michael, and through many other ways available to the faithful.

AndyF
 
It is important to get a handle on what exactly is occuring and what exactly will follow, since these afflicted have diminished ability to discern and trust.

You are correct, and your/our stance is to act and persuade in a such a way that sets an example to those caught in this very subtle trick.

I would not go to a “wedding”. Because exactly, it is not a Sacrament bestowed by God that these two will receive. God is not presiding as He set the law that this act is an abomination. Since satan eagerly fills the void in rituals made by man, then it becomes just that, a cult ritual with satan presiding.

By your not attending you are standing firm in the midst of unpopularity and not being in “vogue” and sending the message of your caring for this person by not remaining passive to social acceptance.

You need also to distance yourself from those who are obstinate in this habitual sin.(Sirach)

Sorry, but there is nothing to do in this case but for everyone to administer therapy for this affliction in the form of good advice such has on how he can rid himself of this habit through the fruits of the Church, through prayer, and especially he will find a shield through the Rosary, help from the Saints, especially St. Michael, and through many other ways available to the faithful.

AndyF
This is an excellent response. I had to face a situation last year where I could not attend a Catholic friend’s wedding because she chose to marry outside the church without permission in a civil ceremony. I am praying she will come to her senses and seek to make things right.
 
Just put down all spelling mistakes as typos.
Just so you know, as a former English teacher, if two heterosexuals, obedient to the Church and planning on a valid and sacramental marriage, sent me an invitation with spelling errors in it, I wouldn’t go to that, either.
 
Just so you know, as a former English teacher, if two heterosexuals, obedient to the Church and planning on a valid and sacramental marriage, sent me an invitation with spelling errors in it, I wouldn’t go to that, either.
As a forma english teacha, u might wanna run dat sentence u just wrote thu a grammar check…

(and take out sum of dose badly placed commas…)

he he he.
 
As a forma english teacha, u might wanna run dat sentence u just wrote thu a grammar check…

(and take out sum of dose badly placed commas…)

he he he.
And the misplaced modifier. I think it’s in the forums rules that good grammar and mechanics aren’t allowed on these threads.
 
SpiritMeadow;3878069**:
It is best not to speak for me. I do not claim that loving means loving the person and the actions. That could be absurd in many situations. Your method of not loving the actions is to reject the person by your own statement.
You conflate the two. Why do I judge his character? I don’t judge his character. I asked him how he remotely thought that such vicious statements could be construed as other than hateful. You cannot slam the label truth on everything to avoid being rude and unfeeling. I am well aware of the admonishment being the main thrust of CAF. It is no where else in Catholicism by all my years of experience.
You are right, truth cannot be said in a rude and unfeeling way, but you also questioned his love for homosexuals, which I see nothing in there that would doubt it. Yes, he did come off too strong, but your questions seemed very extreme for comments like his.

Now to answer the bold: Your statement which is italicized (by me) makes little sense. What is my method?
 
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