Having close friends that are homosexual

[Dale_M]

That is the worst advice I’ve heard in my life.

Are you serious? Hoo boy, you need to spend more time here at CAF, you’ll see some whoppers.

Name me ONE time Jesus ever used bad means to do something good.

23
14 As he was passing through a field of grain on the sabbath, his disciples began to make a path while picking the heads of grain.
24
At this the Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the sabbath?”
25
He said to them, “Have you never read what David did 15 when he was in need and he and his companions were hungry?
26
How he went into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest and ate the bread of offering that only the priests could lawfully eat, and shared it with his companions?”
27
Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, 16 not man for the sabbath.
28
17 That is why the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.”
usccb.org/nab/bible/mark/mark2.htm

Attending the wedding would be sharing the love of Christ with his friend instead of preferring the law of the Church.

 

[Dale_M]

So why did God destroy Sodom again?

49
And look at the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were proud, sated with food, complacent in their prosperity, and they gave no help to the poor and needy.
50
Rather, they became haughty and committed abominable crimes in my presence; then, as you have seen, I removed them.
usccb.org/nab/bible/ezekiel/ezekiel16.htm

 

[allhers]

49
And look at the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were proud, sated with food, complacent in their prosperity, and they gave no help to the poor and needy.
50
Rather, they became haughty and committed abominable crimes in my presence; then, as you have seen, I removed them.
usccb.org/nab/bible/ezekiel/ezekiel16.htm

From the same site:

usccb.org/nab/bible/genesis/genesis18.htm
6 [20] Israelite tradition was unanimous in ascribing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah to the wickedness of these cities, but tradition varied in regard to the nature of this wickedness. According to the present account of the Yahwist, the sin of Sodom was homosexuality (Genesis 19:4-5), which is therefore also known as sodomy; but according to Isaiah (Isaiah 1:9-10; 3:9), it was a lack of social justice; Ezekiel (Ezekiel 16:46-51) described it as a disregard for the poor, whereas Jeremiah (Jeremiah 23:14) saw it as general immorality.

 

[Riley259]

He is your close friend. You should be there and support him.

I disagree with this recommendation. If he’s really your friend, he’ll respect your decision not to attend. If he’s willing you can gently explain to him why your attending would be a moral problem. By attending, you’d be indirectly endorsing the legitimacy of this disordered union.

 

[Image_of_God]

Are you serious? Hoo boy, you need to spend more time here at CAF, you’ll see some whoppers.

23
14 As he was passing through a field of grain on the sabbath, his disciples began to make a path while picking the heads of grain.
24
At this the Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the sabbath?”
25
He said to them, “Have you never read what David did 15 when he was in need and he and his companions were hungry?
26
How he went into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest and ate the bread of offering that only the priests could lawfully eat, and shared it with his companions?”
27
Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, 16 not man for the sabbath.
28
17 That is why the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.”
usccb.org/nab/bible/mark/mark2.htm
**
Attending the wedding would be sharing the love of Christ with his friend instead of preferring the law of the Church.**

:whacky:

This is exactly why we need the Church. So that strange interpretations like this are not abundant.

What Jesus was doing was not morally wrong…it wasn’t really against Natural and Moral Law. It was merely against the Law of the Pharisees. Attending the wedding would be morally wrong and what they are doing at the wedding is naturally and morally wrong. The two scenarios don’t exactly compare.

 

[LJN21]

:whacky:

This is exactly why we need the Church. So that strange interpretations like this are not abundant.

What Jesus was doing was not morally wrong…it wasn’t really against Natural and Moral Law. It was merely against the Law of the Pharisees. Attending the wedding would be morally wrong and what they are doing at the wedding is naturally and morally wrong. The two scenarios don’t exactly compare.

 

[Dale_M]

According to the present account of the Yahwist, the sin of Sodom was homosexuality (Genesis 19:4-5), which is therefore also known as sodomy

What is the Yahwist and why do you emphasize it more than portions of the Bible?

 

[allhers]

From the same site:

usccb.org/nab/bible/genesis/genesis18.htm
6 [20] Israelite tradition was unanimous in ascribing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah to the wickedness of these cities, but tradition varied in regard to the nature of this wickedness. According to the present account of the Yahwist, the sin of Sodom was homosexuality (Genesis 19:4-5), which is therefore also known as sodomy; but according to Isaiah (Isaiah 1:9-10; 3:9), it was a lack of social justice; Ezekiel (Ezekiel 16:46-51) described it as a disregard for the poor, whereas Jeremiah (Jeremiah 23:14) saw it as general immorality.

To explain further…
…primarily four: the so-called Yahwist, Elohist, Priestly and Deuteronomic strands … responsible for their names: the Yahwist prefers the name Yahweh (represented … name for God, Elohim. The Yahwist is concrete, imaginative, using many…
The Yahwist was himself a collector and adapter. His narrative is made up of many disparate stories that have been reoriented, and given a meaning within the context in which they now stand… these had their own history and life-setting before they were brought together into the present more or less connected narrative.
.
usccb.org:8765/query.html?col=&qt=Yahwist
The reason I bold the above is to bring to light according to the present account.

 

[thistle]

Forget the small print. Think of the bigger picture. Not going would do more harm than good. There would be no winners by you not going. You know the right thing to do is just go and support the poor guy. It’s not easy being gay (i should imagine).

These other posters saying “definitely not, don’t go” don’t have to lose a friend. It’s all very easy for them to give this advice safely from cyberspace.

They came to this forum for advice!

God comes before a friend and if a person was a real friend and already knew your views on homosexual activity they would understand why you could not attend.

Your advice is putting a friend before God. Where would we be if Abraham had told God he’s not prepared to sacrifice his son.

 

[wanner47]

Look. You and I both know that God is not going to send him to hell for going and supporting his friend. The big picture to which I was referring is the teachings of Christ. Apart from saving your own soul what have you actually achieved by not going to your father’s wedding? What **good **has come of it?

I was the one who didn’t go to my father’s wedding.

Here is the good that came of it:

1. I followed Jesus’ teachings even when they conflicted with the desires of my family and my desire to keep peace within my family.
2. I can sleep with a clear conscience, knowing I did not put my own selfish wishes and desires above that of Christ’s teachings.
3. I witnessed to my family that I was serious about following my faith, and serious about following Christ’s teachings to the best of my ability.
4. I set a good example for my children, so they saw me actually practice what I preached even when it was difficult.

In short, immeasurable good came of it – the salvation of my soul being the most important thing, of course, and worth it all by itself.

 

[Other_Eric]

Christ commands us to love one another, not to be friendly with anyone and everyone. A person who indulges same-sex attractions is not worthy of Christian friendship. Lose this misguided individual as it seems your passions regarding him are leading you off the path of Christ.

 

[Image_of_God]

To explain further…
…primarily four: the so-called Yahwist, Elohist, Priestly and Deuteronomic strands … responsible for their names: the Yahwist prefers the name Yahweh (represented … name for God, Elohim. The Yahwist is concrete, imaginative, using many…
The Yahwist was himself a collector and adapter. His narrative is made up of many disparate stories that have been reoriented, and given a meaning within the context in which they now stand… these had their own history and life-setting before they were brought together into the present more or less connected narrative.
.
usccb.org:8765/query.html?col=&qt=Yahwist
The reason I bold the above is to bring to light according to the present account.

Allhers, excellent work. I remember reading somewhere that the word sodomy came about because of an incorrect understanding of the destruction of Sodom. The source claimed that they were destroyed only because of a lack of hospitality. I guess they were wrong.

 

[Dale_M]

The source claimed that they were destroyed only because of a lack of hospitality. I guess they were wrong.

Not necessarily. The citation which Allhers gave listed the Yahwist as one of four interpretations given to of Sodom and Gomorrah. I am not sure that Yahwist is conclusive.

 

[c659smith]

Christ commands us to love one another, not to be friendly with anyone and everyone. A person who indulges same-sex attractions is not worthy of Christian friendship. Lose this misguided individual as it seems your passions regarding him are leading you off the path of Christ.

Remember Christ hates the sin and not the sinner.

If a person is a homosexual that is a special blessing possibly from God.

Homosexual acts: yes, is a sin but not the homosexual.

If you remove yourself from the sight and sound of a sinner than how would you be a deciple of Christ?

Would you be like one of the Apostles returning to towns and cities time and time again to convert and show that Christ is our Savior and to teach his way.

For your actions and love of that person, being a mentor, may one day bring him or her to realize their sin bringing them to fullness with Christ.

 

[thomfra]

Christ commands us to love one another, not to be friendly with anyone and everyone. A person who indulges same-sex attractions is not worthy of Christian friendship. Lose this misguided individual as it seems your passions regarding him are leading you off the path of Christ.

I don’t think anybody responding to this post would agree with this statement. Eveybody is worthy of Christian friendship.

 

[juliamajor]

Because of their sodomy.

People who struggle with SSA deserve love and respect. The most loving thing you can do is not go.

Ok if that’s so then what the heck did gomorrah do wrong? No mention of sexual proclivities. what did the women and children do in Sodom do? There is much more to the story then that.The Lot’s visitors story comes after God has decided to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah- not before it. Primary reason was an “outcry” from the people., Hebrew meaning - poverty and injustice. check Isaiah and Ezekiel’s take n it. Ezekiel says that the arrogance and lack of concern for the downtrodden was the main cause of the destruction. Attempted rape was punished also- but that was not the primary focus . You gotta love Lot willing to send his virgin daughters to assuage the sexual depravity of his neighbors.-what a guy!

 

[v3orb]

You could make a comprimise. Tell your friend that you will not be attending the wedding ceremony and explain why. Then go to the banquet or afterglow or whatever. That way you’re not supporting what you believe is wrong, but you’re still being a good friend.

 

[urban-hermit]

For those who are arguing about the scriptural status of “Sodomy”, the Catechism cites Genesis 19:1-29 in CCC# 2357 to support and explain why the Church has always declared that homosexual acts are acts of grave depravity. I don’t know how anybody could stay confused after reading that… (but judging from the pattern here on CAF, some probably will)

It is not easy to stand by this teaching around homosexual friends. A lot of tact is necessary but so is a lot of courage and faith. If you are too wimpy your friends will not perceive this as an important truth.

Homosexual sex acts can never be marital acts. God is telling us plainly and unambiguously that this behavior is self-destructive. Friends don’t support friends in their own self-destruction.

If one walks around long enough with his eyes closed he will fall into a pit, possibly stomping on top of those friends who have fallen in ahead of him. We must warn people as effectively as we can, … but many people just don’t listen. Prayer and making sacrifices for them is more powerful anyway and should be our first recourse. Usually we prefer to talk though. Maybe that is why God is allowing them not to listen - to get us to pray and make sacrifices. Just a thought.

If you are a serious Christian you will probably experience a parting of the ways with close friends who are “serious homosexuals”. God sees everything and your prayers and sacrifices will be the proof that you really were a friend, even though you skipped the ceremony.

 

[Pug]

So what are your opinions?

The type of friendship where you are you and your friend is himself is truly worth having. It sounds like the two of you are not casual friends, but are close. Aim for true friendship then, and be true to yourself in this situation. Of course, that is always a risk, but that is a worthwhile risk.

 

[awfulthings9]

Those who are saying to go and that this is the truly Christian thing to do have yet to provide any documentation from Scripture or Church documentation to show that supporting grave sin is truly a Christian act. Claims are made that Christ would have gone. Documentation? Scriptural support that Christ celebrated sin? That friendship is greater than the “small print”? Documentation?

It’s all “small print”, right?

It doesn’t sound like the teachings of the same Christ who said:

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)

I can’t imagine inserting into this passage a line like this:

“But if you are going to risk friendship with a close friend by not going to a sham wedding celebration of a gravely sinful act, an act that offends God, go ahead.”

It seems very clear here that clarity and obediance in following his way is set above preserving even the dearest relationships.

But what does Christ know? I mean, we’ve already discounted the teachings of the Church in this thread, which means we’ve rejected the Christ’s authority and the Holy Spirit’s guidance already.