Having Difficulty Showing My Wife the Joy of Catholicism. Please Help

[catholicWI]

I don’t think Lorelei12 “missed it.”

Your God-given duty is to give your life for your wife.

The very BEST way for you to “guide your family towards a virtuous and holy life” is to LIVE that life and NOT say one word, not even ONE LITTLE TINY WORD, sir! Keep your mouth shut.

she KNOWS that missing Mass is mortal sin. You don’t need to remind her, not even gently

You said you want to show her the joy of Catholicism? Then act joyful. Sing. Dance. Joke. Play. Make love. Eat and drink moderately, but with enthusiasm.

One more thing you might want to try is an exercise in humility. Do something for God that is beyond your “Type A” personality. E.g., volunteer at a nursing home to sit and read to old people–a job that no one sees or thanks you for, and the elderly people themselves won’t necessarily remember you from week to week. Or volunteer at home to take over a chore that your wife hates; e.g., all the menu planning, grocery shopping, and food prep, or perhaps cleaning the bathroom.

Or perhaps you should join your parish choir, or volunteer to play the piano at Mass. I can guarantee that your faith will be challenged the first time someone comes up to you and criticizes your music and tells you to read the Church Documents.

First off, thank you for your response.

I will go through key points in what you said as I’ve quoted them above:

I disagree that a father and husband should LITERALLY not say a word. Actions obviously speak louder than words but words help people understand things. That would be absurd to never explain things to your child.

I honestly don’t know if she knows that about skipping Mass. With her having trouble seeking answers on her own, sometimes I don’t know what she knows and doesn’t know unless we have talked about it before in a conversation.

I assure you I live joyfully. Every day is a celebration–my large family is the same way–I bring her flowers randomly. We go to concerts. We enjoy cooking and dining. We enjoy wine. We dance. I sing. I am embarrassed that I may be coming off as some stiff-lipped dude, haha!

I regularly seek to go outside what is comfortable for me. Volunteering is something I strive for. I regularly ask our parish how I can help, even if it means donating money or services from my business.

I assure you I lead an example of a joyful, charitable, and celebratory life!

 

[jinglebelle]

this sounds like my now deceased father,both children abandoned catholicism. there,s a lot of I in this post

 

[mountee]

If my husband was in the place your wife is I would be giddy with joy. While she may be going through the motions sometimes at least she is there with you. As in all things in life, many times people just don’t share the exact same experience or feelings and faith is certainly one of those places for vast differences. I hope you will live your daily life full of joy and love for your faith and your family and your blessings and allow that daily joy to bring your wife along with you as she grows closer to the faith and God. Many times we do more to bring people along by how we show how happy our faith makes us than all the words in the world.

 

[ClearWater]

…Continued from previous post

My fear is that our son and future children see parents that have different spiritual lives or that if something were to happen to me, my children would not be raised with a strong Catholic faith since I’d be the only one that tries to learn things myself so I can teach them to my children. I told my wife this scares me.

I love my wife more than anything. Our marriage is AMAZING. She is a wonderful woman and a wonderful mother. I just so badly want her to see the beauty, joy, importance, and truth of Catholicism–I know our marriage can be even BETTER! I want her to fall in love with her faith. I want her to be excited to share it with our children. While she is definitely making linear progress, it’s very slow and I fear it could just stop. I walk a fine line of trying to guide her in her faith and not trying to be overbearing. For instance: should I suggest she return to confession or not receive communion next week for purposely missing Mass or should I just focus on the big picture and not do what might be seen as “nit-picking” since I know overall we’re moving in the right direction.

Am I worrying for no reason? Is there something I can do that I’m not doing? Has anyone experienced this?

I think she feels a need to “rebel”, because she has felt pressured. My suggestion would be NOT to pressure her, to accept her as she is, because your pressure will NOT have the effect you want. It will be YOUR idea, NOT hers. When she goes, allow it to be HER idea.

Ironically, if you allow her to go, when she is ready, she might actually experience joy, but I doubt she will as long as it’s only to please someone else and being sort of like nagged (or that could be her perception of it).

I think she will come around if she is NOT pressured. If she is pressured further, she may never come around.

 

[StSentry83]

You said you want to show her the joy of Catholicism? Then act joyful. Sing. Dance. Joke. Play. Make love. Eat and drink moderately, but with enthusiasm.

Sing… but preferably Gregorian chant.
Dance… but never in the presence of the Eucharist.
Joke… but make it clean.
Play… but not too rough.
Make Love… but don’t experiment too much.

Nope, my favorite is still “eat and drink moderately, but with enthusiasm”… lol… I’m lost as to the meaning of enthusiasm in that sentence.

 

[catholicWI]

If my husband was in the place your wife is I would be giddy with joy. While she may be going through the motions sometimes at least she is there with you. As in all things in life, many times people just don’t share the exact same experience or feelings and faith is certainly one of those places for vast differences. I hope you will live your daily life full of joy and love for your faith and your family and your blessings and allow that daily joy to bring your wife along with you as she grows closer to the faith and God. Many times we do more to bring people along by how we show how happy our faith makes us than all the words in the world.

This reply really put my “issue” into context. Thank you.

I can’t wait to pick up flowers for her on my way home, hug her, and tell her how much I love her!

 

[petra22]

I have to say that simply starting this thread has made me really reflect on the progress we have made together and I am very thankful and blessed for where we BOTH are.

When I really think about it, her journey is amazing. Mine might have been like a rocket ship straight up, but hers is a more gentile and probably common route towards holiness. I really respect that about her and I can’t wait to go home and hug and kiss her now! I sure love her!

That made me smile!

 

[catholicWI]

That made me smile!

 

[Cat]

First off, thank you for your response.

I will go through key points in what you said as I’ve quoted them above:

I disagree that a father and husband should LITERALLY not say a word. Actions obviously speak louder than words but words help people understand things. That would be absurd to never explain things to your child.

Of course you have to speak words in order to train a child. But your wife is not a child, and doesn’t require “training.”

I honestly don’t know if she knows that about skipping Mass. With her having trouble seeking answers on her own, sometimes I don’t know what she knows and doesn’t know unless we have talked about it before in a conversation.

Then ask her. Come straight out and ask her if she knows. Then once that conversation is over, don’t bring it up again, unless, as I said, she has some kind of medical condition that causes her to forget things.

I assure you I live joyfully. Every day is a celebration–my large family is the same way–I bring her flowers randomly. We go to concerts. We enjoy cooking and dining. We enjoy wine. We dance. I sing. I am embarrassed that I may be coming off as some stiff-lipped dude, haha!

I regularly seek to go outside what is comfortable for me. Volunteering is something I strive for. I regularly ask our parish how I can help, even if it means donating money or services from my business.

I assure you I lead an example of a joyful, charitable, and celebratory life!

Good. Keep it up. Just make sure there are no strings attached.

In your opening post, you used the word, “disappointed” to refer to your wife’s actions. Here are your words: “I understand I run the risk of coming off as too much sometimes. Between my extroverted personality and the absolute joy I find in my spiritual life, sometimes I might be a little too much which obviously can result the opposite of what I intend. In fact, just one week after I got her to reconcile, last Sunday she said she wasn’t going to go to Mass because the only one she could go to was an 8am one (I had to go to an 11am one as I am someone’s confirmation sponsor). I was very disappointed. I told her I was disappointed.”

CatholicWI, I would be completely devastated if my husband was “disappointed” in me. I would rather he hate me then be “disappointed” in me.

That word is dreadful. It carries so much hostility when it’s used between two adults. It’s demeaning.

Do not ever use it to refer to your wife or any situation involving your wife again. You can say, “I was disappointed in that movie” or “I was disappointed that Ed couldn’t come to our dinner party.” You might be able to use it in a secular setting with your wife, e.g., “I was so disappointed that we weren’t able to find the paint color we were looking for.”

But don’t use it to refer to actions that your wife does or doesn’t do. Tell her, “I’m angry with you for not coming to Mass.” That’s less demeaning. Or better yet, don’t say anything. Just say a prayer and forget about it.

Think about this–who will receive more grace from God? The one who attends Mass in a joyful frame of mind, ready to worship in spirit and in truth, and humbly ready to receive Jesus in Holy Communion? OR…the one who isn’t really into it, who doesn’t “feel it,” and who would probably rather just skip it? I would say the latter, because they need grace more.

 

[Cat]

this sounds like my now deceased father,both children abandoned catholicism. there,s a lot of I in this post

Yes, I agree. Lots of “I” and “my”. Not enough Jesus and “His.”

Red flags and alarms all over the place in the OP. I’m wondering if someday, the wife will throw the flowers in his face and tell him to get out and stop trying to turn her into Mother Teresa.

Sorry, OP. I’ve seen this situation in marriages several times, and it often doesn’t turn out well. The reason is that you and your wife are not “one.” You are two separate people doing married things (dinners, flowers, going to church, etc.), but you haven’t managed to figure out a way to be “one.” You’re trying to make her be like you, and she’s resisting. Do you understand why she’s resisting? It’s because she isn’t “you,” she’s “her.” She doesn’t want “her” to disappear.

This struggle is deadly to marriages. What often happens is that eventually, one of the partners simply can’t take it anymore and leaves, often in tears and in anger.

One of the suggestions that I often make on CAF is for younger married people to find an older married couple in the Church and ask them to “mentor” their marriage. This is a very Biblical approach. Spending time with this older couple will show you how a married couple can be “one” but still maintain their own personalities, interests, and spiritual lives. Please consider doing this. It shouldn’t be your parents–there’s a possibility that this same kind of lop-sided marriage was the reality you grew up with, and so you think it’s the way to be married. Ask your priest to recommend a few couples that might be able to do this for you and your wife.

 

[jlc2k2]

Yes, I agree. Lots of “I” and “my”. Not enough Jesus and “His.”

Red flags and alarms all over the place in the OP. I’m wondering if someday, the wife will throw the flowers in his face and tell him to get out and stop trying to turn her into Mother Teresa.

Sorry, OP. I’ve seen this situation in marriages several times, and it often doesn’t turn out well. The reason is that you and your wife are not “one.” You are two separate people doing married things (dinners, flowers, going to church, etc.), but you haven’t managed to figure out a way to be “one.” You’re trying to make her be like you, and she’s resisting. Do you understand why she’s resisting? It’s because she isn’t “you,” she’s “her.” She doesn’t want “her” to disappear.

This struggle is deadly to marriages. What often happens is that eventually, one of the partners simply can’t take it anymore and leaves, often in tears and in anger.

One of the suggestions that I often make on CAF is for younger married people to find an older married couple in the Church and ask them to “mentor” their marriage. This is a very Biblical approach. Spending time with this older couple will show you how a married couple can be “one” but still maintain their own personalities, interests, and spiritual lives. Please consider doing this. It shouldn’t be your parents–there’s a possibility that this same kind of lop-sided marriage was the reality you grew up with, and so you think it’s the way to be married. Ask your priest to recommend a few couples that might be able to do this for you and your wife.

I find it interesting that you would mention Mother Teresa because that is who I thought of when I read the OP’s description of his wife’s spiritual life.

OP it may pay for you to read up on Mother Teresa’s spiritual life a bit. She spent decades not feeling the same spiritual high that she had before starting the Missionaries of Charity. I have found solace in knowing this recently as daily life has made it difficult for me to maintain the passion that I had when I first converted. Perhaps it would bring you some peace about your wife’s spiritual journey being in a different place from your own as well.

As for kids, I think a mother whose faith persists even in darkness will be a great example for them, even if she slips once in a while.

 

[catholicWI]

Okay, some of what you say, Cat, is true, but you need to resist the idea that you can diagnose my marriage from one post on a message board.

Our marriage is GREAT. For both of us. I talked to my wife last night and told her that I wanted her to know that I respect and love the journey into her faith that she’s made despite me sometimes expressing myself in ways that aren’t the most helpful to the cause.

She said thanks and then said “but it’s true, I do need to be pushed sometimes”. So everyone is failing to understand that she openly admits she is “lazy” about the faith that she knows is important. She (overall) thinks it’s good that I introduce her to things or remind her of things when it comes to faith that she might not otherwise know or be motivated to do herself. She made a joke “you keep me motivated to take care of my spiritual life and I keep you motivated to take care of your physical life”–since she keeps reminding me to work out.

I think Cat and some others here might have the wrong impression and that might be my fault for expressing the situation improperly.

I guess the bottom line is this. Sure she does things like goes to Mass on Sunday and Holy Days, she is open to the Rosary, she is open to the parish. However, she admits she can’t find the happiness and joy that she knows I get out of it. This is what I want to help her find. Maybe I CAN’T help her find it beyond constantly showing her that I have found it through my actions. I’m asking if there is something that people here can think of that’s a good way to show it to another person. It might not be possible.

I’m not here for marriage advice, our marriage is VERY healthy, loving, and happy. I’m simply hear to hear from people who might have encountered a similar situation.

 

[catholicWI]

As for kids, I think a mother whose faith persists even in darkness will be a great example for them, even if she slips once in a while.

The point is, I don’t know if there would be faith without me…or how much would be left. She doesn’t openly pray, or doesn’t seem to be terribly motivated to go to church. She wouldn’t know when any Holy Days are if it were not for me bringing it up. I’m saying she goes through the motions but I don’t know if the actual faith is there if I was out of the equation. I want our kids to see their mother as someone with deep faith, not just their father!

 

[kerkvliet]

OP–I completely understand where you’re coming from. I worry too that if something happened to me, my husband would not have the commitment to the Catholic faith or the ability to teach our children about their faith and to help them establish a relationship with Jesus. I have realized that I cannot convince him to improve his spiritual life–only God can do that and I pray daily that He will convert his heart. I know that God had infinite patience with me during my sinful 20s before I slowly returned to my faith, so I too have to have patience with my husband. I can only work on improving myself and hopefully be an example to him.

However I have told my husband that our children look up to us as examples in how to live their faith, so he has to commit to being that example, even if it is just minimally. And he does recognize the importance of this. He attends Mass on Sunday and the all the Holy Days, supports me when I have special prayers, celebrations for religious reasons, and goes to confession 3-4 times a year, albeit this last part reluctantly.

I don’t know if you have family rosary night but this might help. We say a family rosary every Sunday night (at least). We have a special corner which we set up with a crucifix and statue/photo of Mary, the kids get their own rosary and read a short passage about each mystery. Initially my husband did this reluctantly and his apathy seemed so blatant to me, but nevertheless he did it and does it and understands why I require this. He seems to be slowly softening towards it. I would do this and not make it about your wife but about the family.

Hope this helps.

 

[jlc2k2]

The point is, I don’t know if there would be faith without me…or how much would be left. She doesn’t openly pray, or doesn’t seem to be terribly motivated to go to church. She wouldn’t know when any Holy Days are if it were not for me bringing it up. I’m saying she goes through the motions but I don’t know if the actual faith is there if I was out of the equation. I want our kids to see their mother as someone with deep faith, not just their father!

I think it could be a good example for the kids to see that there are things that you do even when you don’t feel the joy from it. You might also google Conversion Diary and spiritual dry spells. Jennifer Fulwiler has done several good posts on the subject over the years. You seem to believe that the current state (you on fire for the faith and your wife lukewarm) is how it will always be. That’s just not necessarily the case.

 

[catholicWI]

OP–I completely understand where you’re coming from. I worry too that if something happened to me, my husband would not have the commitment to the Catholic faith or the ability to teach our children about their faith and to help them establish a relationship with Jesus. I have realized that I cannot convince him to improve his spiritual life–only God can do that and I pray daily that He will convert his heart. I know that God had infinite patience with me during my sinful 20s before I slowly returned to my faith, so I too have to have patience with my husband. I can only work on improving myself and hopefully be an example to him.

However I have told my husband that our children look up to us as examples in how to live their faith, so he has to commit to being that example, even if it is just minimally. And he does recognize the importance of this. He attends Mass on Sunday and the all the Holy Days, supports me when I have special prayers, celebrations for religious reasons, and goes to confession 3-4 times a year, albeit this last part reluctantly.

I don’t know if you have family rosary night but this might help. We say a family rosary every Sunday night (at least). We have a special corner which we set up with a crucifix and statue/photo of Mary, the kids get their own rosary and read a short passage about each mystery. Initially my husband did this reluctantly and his apathy seemed so blatant to me, but nevertheless he did it and does it and understands why I require this. He seems to be slowly softening towards it. I would do this and not make it about your wife but about the family.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for your story. See, her first time to confession since a teenager was 2 weeks ago which is why I probably shouldn’t push the fact that her purposely skipping last Sunday’s Mass means she should get back to the booth before this Sunday.

You are right about being an example to children but I fear that simply “going thru the motions” reeks of inauthenticity to children as they grow up. This is my issue which I’m sure you understand.

It’s nice to hear about the family Rosary. I will say this: she saw me going to pray the Rosary a couple months ago and said “I’d be willing to do the Rosary with you sometime you know”. This was music to my ears! So I made a special night when our little guy was asleep (who is still a baby) and I walked her through it. She also said that some ladies in some group she was in were talking about a family Rosary and she’d be open to that; again, this made me swell up with joy. However, I don’t think she’s ever prayed the Rosary alone which is where I think the real POWER of the Rosary is. I think family/group prayer is a good discipline and brings the family together in prayer and teaches kids how to do it, but when you do it alone, you really can go at your own pace and really meditate and get the real fruits from both the mental and spiritual aspects from it. I told her this. I felt it was kind of clunky and cumbersome doing it with her. The first time we just recited everything together but this forces one to meditate less and make sure they are going the same pace as the other person. The second time we rotated decades leading and responding and taking turns thinking of petitions for each decade. This seemed to be a bit better but was a bit clunky. It’s my wish that she will seek to unlock the Rosary’s power ALONE! You know?

At the same time, I look at some of the other threads in this forum about problems with spouses and it really makes me realize just how good my situation is. I just don’t know how serious I should be about this!

 

[catholicWI]

I think it could be a good example for the kids to see that there are things that you do even when you don’t feel the joy from it. You might also google Conversion Diary and spiritual dry spells. Jennifer Fulwiler has done several good posts on the subject over the years. You seem to believe that the current state (you on fire for the faith and your wife lukewarm) is how it will always be. That’s just not necessarily the case.

Yes, but I have also been lukewarm before. She has never experienced the former and that’s what I’m concerned about.

Good suggestion though!

 

[kerkvliet]

OP-

“You are right about being an example to children but I fear that simply “going thru the motions” reeks of inauthenticity to children as they grow up. This is my issue which I’m sure you understand.”

Yes, I agree with this, but remember when someone goes through the motions repeatedly, and with the intercession of Mary (and other saints) and Christ’s grace, one’s heart may soften and going through the motions can turn into a change of heart. Pray, believe and have patience.

Another way of saying the rosary which may not be as awkward for you and your wife is to say it in the car together when you’re driving somewhere. I know it’s not the perfect spiritual scenario that you envision but it is a start, and Jesus and Mary can work with each and every attempt, no matter how small or how imperfect.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

You are right about being an example to children but I fear that simply “going thru the motions” reeks of inauthenticity to children as they grow up. This is my issue which I’m sure you understand.

I’m glad I’m not your wife. No matter what she does, it’s not good enough.

She went to confession for the first time in years…but you’re policing her spiritual life and have decided she needs to go again.

She carries out religious activities…but as her personal police force you know she’s being inauthentic.

She mentions wanting to pray a family rosary…but as her spiritual policeman you’re not satisfied because she doesn’t do it alone. And besides – since it’s all about you – “I felt it was kind of clunky and cumbersome doing it with her.” Oh well, then, give it up.

You want joy? Then celebrate every tiny step in the right direction. Stop being her parent/police officer/constant critic.

 

[Lorelei12]

“Far more Catholic” = “self-motivated, practicing”. I felt that explanation was obvious. I apologize.

I think you might have missed where she herself said she’s “going through the motions” and cannot find the same joy. I am respectful that everyone has a different journey in their spiritual life but I also feel that it is the husband’s and father’s God-given duty to gently guide his family towards a virtuous and holy life.

Thank you for responding!

No, I didn’t miss that part. I think your first post left many of us with the impression that you treat your wife as a child, regardless of how she feels about her faith. Your description of how you told her you were “disappointed in her”, as well as the tone of the whole post, was very parental-sounding.

You’ve clarified in further posts that she has told you that sometimes she needs a push. That’s fine. We all do sometimes, about various things. But you can’t make someone experience joy. People experience joy differently. Joy is a gift from God, not something you can bestow upon another person.

And your posts don’t really indicate that you want your wife to experience joy so much as you want her to act the way you do. It does seem as though nothing she does is good enough for you. If you do want to “gently guide your family toward a virtuous and holy life”, do that! Be a good example, and let your wife find joy in her own way. If she wants to pray the rosary with you, be happy and don’t complain that you’d rather do it alone. How is she going to experience joy if you dictate how she is to experience it?!

Sometimes we have to “go through the motions”, and we don’t always feel like doing something. I’d be thankful you have a wife who is not only willing to “go through the motions”, but also do things like volunteer and be part of a faith group and pray the rosary. There is value in going through the motions even when you’re not “on fire”.