Having established that God exists, what can we say about him?

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empther

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In my thread “Finite past proves God exists” I used Aquinas’s argument that there could not be an infinite regression and therefore there had to be a God to start the universe. Aquinas discusses his proofs of God in quesion 2:

So having established that the universe could not have existed from an infinite past and it had to be created by something we call God.

What can we say about God ?

Aquinas has already worked that out for us !!! 😃

http://www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP003.html#FPQ3OUTP1
OF THE SIMPLICITY OF GOD (EIGHT ARTICLES)
  1. Whether God is a body?
  2. Whether He is composed of matter and form?
  3. Whether in Him there is composition of quiddity, essence or nature, and subject?
  4. Whether He is composed of essence and existence?
    5. Whether He is composed of genus and difference?
    6. Whether He is composed of subject and accident?
    7. Whether He is in any way composite, or wholly simple?
    8. Whether He enters into composition with other things?
    http://www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP004.html#FPQ4OUTP1
    THE PERFECTION OF GOD (THREE ARTICLES)
  5. Whether God is perfect?
  6. Whether God is perfect universally, as having in Himself the perfections of all things?
    3. Whether creatures can be said to be like God?
    http://www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP005.html#FPQ5OUTP1
    OF GOODNESS IN GENERAL (SIX ARTICLES)
    1. Whether goodness and being are the same really?
    2. Granted that they differ only in idea, which is prior in thought?
    3. Granted that being is prior, whether every being is good?
    4. To what cause should goodness be reduced?
    5. Whether goodness consists in mode, species, and order?
    6. Whether goodness is divided into the virtuous, the useful, and the pleasant?
    http://www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP006.html#FPQ6OUTP1
    THE GOODNESS OF GOD (FOUR ARTICLES)
    1. Whether goodness belongs to God?
    2. Whether God is the supreme good?
    3. Whether He alone is essentially good?
    4. Whether all things are good by the divine goodness?
    ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP007.html#FPQ7OUTP1
    THE INFINITY OF GOD (FOUR ARTICLES)
    1. Whether God is infinite?
    2. Whether anything besides Him is infinite in essence?
    3. Whether anything can be infinitude in magnitude?
  7. Whether an infinite multitude can exist?
AND SO ON … 😃
You can follow the rest if Aquinas’s thought if you have a few hundred hours of time to spare.

Notice how impossible it would be to discuss all these ideas in an organized manner on a website like this.

**But it’s available if you want it ! **
:extrahappy:
 
Sits in the front row

I’ll definitely be watching this thread.😃
 
He is from whom all righteousness, justice and truth flow.
He is our joy and our sorrow, all things to all things,
the One who greets us at birth and upon the eve of death.
 
Somehow I don’t think that St Thomas, much as I admire and respect him, worked **everything **out! 😉
 
I agree Tonyrey,

There is always something more to be said and discovered on something as all-encompassing and omnipotent as God. He is the First and the Last, that’s everything!!
 
Somehow I don’t think that St Thomas, much as I admire and respect him, worked **everything **out! 😉
Click to expand...
Probably not, and he would be the first to tell you so.

But aren’t you glad he’s on our side. 😃

Notice that he presents all the devil’s arguments, called “objections”,
then he shoots them down. 👍
By the way,
a few minutes ago I looked at Article 1 of Question 3
thinking this subject should be simple enough to explain. 😉
(1) Whether God is a body?

Boy was I wrong! :eek:
It’s like studying chemistry. ( I majored in chemistry, along with other things. )
Try to explain why fluorine when ionically bonded to something can;t be replaced by anything else. To understand that you must have a hundred other ideas in your head.

And Aquinas is just getting started. But skeptics say it’s all an accident. :mad:
 
empther said:
In my thread “Finite past proves God exists” I used Aquinas’s argument that there could not be an infinite regression and therefore there had to be a God to start the universe. Aquinas discusses his proofs of God in quesion 2:

So having established that the universe could not have existed from an infinite past and it had to be created by something we call God.

What can we say about God ?
Click to expand...
Indeed the very first question uses as its basis:
Now it has been already proved that God is the First Mover
Click to expand...
However the proof that God is the First Mover was accomplished by this line of reasoning alone:
Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
Click to expand...
I claim not everyone understands the PM to be God, and that even if they did it is not sufficient to prove that the PM actually is God. Therefore, until this issue is resolved, it appears that some of these properties of God are unreliable (i.e. the ones that rely on God being the PM directly or indirectly.)
 
[edited]
Quote:
Originally Posted by empther
Click to expand...
forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
In my thread “Finite past proves God exists” I used Aquinas’s argument that there could not be an infinite regression and therefore there had to be a God to start the universe. Aquinas discusses his proofs of God in quesion 2:

So having established that the universe could not have existed from an infinite past and it had to be created by something we call God.

What can we say about God ?

Indeed the very first question uses as its basis:
Quote:
Now it has been already proved that God is the First Mover
Click to expand...
However the proof that God is the First Mover was accomplished by this line of reasoning alone:
Quote:
Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
Click to expand...
I claim not everyone understands the PM to be God, and that even if they did it is not sufficient to prove that the PM actually is God. Therefore, until this issue is resolved, it appears that some of these properties of God are unreliable (i.e. the ones that rely on God being the PM directly or indirectly.)
Click to expand...

The existence of God was established in Question 2
ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP002.html#FPQ2OUTP1

THE EXISTENCE OF GOD (THREE ARTICLES)

(1) Whether the proposition “God exists” is self-evident?
(2) Whether it is demonstrable?
(3) Whether God exists?

In my previous post, I explained why I am not adequate to explain even one of Acquinas’s 3,000 Articles. Too many ideas have to be juggled in the mind at once. You have to see it on paper, not a website page.
But you don’t need me. It’s all right there in the links I gave. ( Hint: print them out ! 👍 )

[edited]
 
empther said:
The existence of God was established in Question 2
ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP002.html#FPQ2OUTP1
(1) Whether the proposition “God exists” is self-evident?
Click to expand...
Since you seem so hung up on the atheist bit, let us suppose that God exists, but is not the prime mover, and the prime mover exists but is not God.
empther said:
In my previous post, I explained why I am not adequate to explain even one of Acquinas’s many Questions. But you don’t need me. It’s all right there in the links I gave.
Click to expand...
If you are not adequate to discuss what you have posted, what was your purpose in posting? To simply inform people of the existence of the Summa? I think that you could safely assume this forum is already quite familiar with its existence.
 
Check the times for posts 8 and 9

I checked in after being away for a while,
but hardly had I hit “Submit” but there’s TheTrueCentrist coming back with his hot air.

Pitiful. What a waste of protoplasm. :sleep:
 
When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments, could these commandments be the greatest purpose of both God the Father and God the Son?

Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
Jesus loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
God the Father loves God the Son, with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.
The Father loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.

Could the spirit be the power of God’s love, working through these commandments?

1 Samuel 18,
Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. (Taken from the New International Bible.)

Could God love us more than he loves himself?
 
When God became one with us through Jesus, He did love us as much as he loved himself. It says something to that effect in Paul’s letters to the Ephesians.

Very interesting stuff here on this thread!
 
True Centrist,

I think the reason for God’s being and existing are love. He is love.

what the heck is a centrist?
 
Tonyrey,

Thank you. I really don’t know how to describe it besides to say that all the is good in the world and in humanity, like truth, love, justice, and kindness are a reflection of God. It is because of Him these things exist and because of these things he exists.

Part of the mystery of God’s existence is a mystery and can never be fully understood or grasped by us. In my humble opinion, I think over analyzing God can be very foolish in some instances.
 
Some might argue that the ‘God’ which Aquinas ‘proves’ has no particular connection to the Christian God.

For Christians, our knowledge of God begins and ends with the person of Jesus. We only know ‘the Father’ through Jesus. My God is Jesus, the baby born in the manger to the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, the man of sorrows wrapt in grief, who falls three times on the way to Calvary, the friend of the leper, the sinner, or the lost sheep- of me.

Some people might say that Aquinas has sown a lot of confusion, by giving an abstract Aristotlean ‘Prime Mover’. Can ever a person fall in love with the ‘God’ of Aquinas? How can Aquinas even think about ‘proving’ God without starting from Jesus?

But can there be a human heart which can refrain from loving and obeying Jesus, and heart which can refrain from breaking at His passion? Jesus is the One True God, who does not ‘prove’ the truth like Aquinas, but, in His infinite love, mercy and suffering IS the Truth?

Aquinas himself realised the error of scholasticism when came to know that all he had written was “straw”. Do the Aquinas ‘fans’ think he was right?
 
//For Christians, our knowledge of God begins and ends with the person of Jesus. We only know ‘the Father’ through Jesus. My God is Jesus, the baby born in the manger to the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, the man of sorrows wrapt in grief, who falls three times on the way to Calvary, the friend of the leper, the sinner, or the lost sheep- of me.//

This is beautiful…sniff
 
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