Having JW's over for discussion

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sawman said:
Well, I promised to report to you all about my meeting with the JWs today.
The short story; there was no meeting . Our wires got crossed and he showed up while I was at Divine Mercy celebration. Oh well. All is for the best. He left his number, but I’m thinking I won’t pursue this unless we happen to bump into one another in the future. Which will probably happen, as this is not the first time he’s been to my door.
I thank you all for your wise and pertinent advice and prayers. God bless you all. Peace, Tom
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Se Dio vuole…

Everyone is right when they say the most important thing is to pray for them. No prayer is ever wasted! - notwithstanding the fact that we usually don’t see in what way God is using some particular prayer. God is so much wiser and is able to do much more than we can, obviously.
 
Kay_Cee said:
The last time JWs came to my house, I asked them how they know which books belong in the Bible. They told me it was “decided by people just like you and me.” Well, I don’t think so. No JW decided which books should go into the New Testament.

Besides, if they were people “just like you and me,” doesn’t that make me just like them? May I then decide for myself which books go into the Bible? If yes, then the Bible can be whatever I want it to be. If not, why not? If they had the authority to decide which books are scripture and I don’t, then they’re not “just like you and me.”

Since then, I’ve seen JWs in the neighborhood many times, but they are avoiding me.
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I had a JW tell me that the Apostles were Jehovah Witnesses’ and they put the books together.

:rolleyes:
 
ajcstr said:
I believe they include Abraham, Moses, and Jesus as JW also
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Yes, indeed. That was one of the things discussed on Marcus’ JW round table.

Muslims have a similar belief, as unstoppable II notes.
 
Kay_Cee said:
I guess they never study history! 😃
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ajcstr said:
I believe they include Abraham, Moses, and Jesus as JW also
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unstoppable_II said:
According to what the imams told us, the Apostles were the first Muslims.
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dcana said:
Yes, indeed. That was one of the things discussed on Marcus’ JW round table.

Muslims have a similar belief, as unstoppable II notes.
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Scary isn’t it?

So where do JW’s say their group were for 1900 or so years?
 
Kay_Cee said:
Besides, if they were people “just like you and me,” doesn’t that make me just like them? May I then decide for myself which books go into the Bible? If yes, then the Bible can be whatever I want it to be. If not, why not? If they had the authority to decide which books are scripture and I don’t, then they’re not “just like you and me.”
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Indeed.

Did you know that there’s several (newer) denominations which believe that the Pauline epistles are NOT inspired?

They have taken it upon themselves to declare that only the Gospels and a few other books belong in the NT.

Following the JW paradigm, the JWs would have to assert, “It is perfectly within their rights to determine what books they think belong in the Bible”.

Imagine how much more chaos and confusion would ensue if everyone decided to throw out books of the Bible based on their own authority!
 
Besides kindness and charity, take a couple of sessions with them to establish a little report and focus on the trinity. One of their books/tracts explaining the Trinity will have quotes from Tertullian and other early Church Fathers about how supposedly false the trinity is. You can obtain the quotes from the Church Fathers and get them to read the passages that are supposedly anti trinitarian. It will come as a big shock to them to discover that Tertullian and others were actual trinitarians, they will see and read it with their own eyes. I certainly had success with this, but like everyone no one wants to find out the info they have been given is deliberately falsifying the position of early Church fathers.

Remember they have a very structured response to many things you will say about all sorts of things so you will feel extremely frustrated. All you can do is supply the information and hopefully the Spirit will act upon their conscience.
 
Waynec said:
They were around but didn’t have their name yet.😃
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Actually, I think they are perfectly fine in saying that they did not exist from the time of the Apostles till 1800’s. I don’t even think they try to make the argument that there were a few of them underground during that time period. They believe that Russell restored the true gospel according to the Bible that was corrupted immediately after the death of the Apostles.
 
kotim said:
Besides kindness and charity, take a couple of sessions with them to establish a little report and focus on the trinity. One of their books/tracts explaining the Trinity will have quotes from Tertullian and other early Church Fathers about how supposedly false the trinity is. You can obtain the quotes from the Church Fathers and get them to read the passages that are supposedly anti trinitarian. It will come as a big shock to them to discover that Tertullian and others were actual trinitarians, they will see and read it with their own eyes. I certainly had success with this, but like everyone no one wants to find out the info they have been given is deliberately falsifying the position of early Church fathers.

Remember they have a very structured response to many things you will say about all sorts of things so you will feel extremely frustrated. All you can do is supply the information and hopefully the Spirit will act upon their conscience.
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I actually pointed this out to my JW friend. I showed her what the Watchtower wrote and what the church fathers actually wrote. I showed her how the Watchtower creatively edited the fathers and her response was that the Governing body wrote what they thought was important for the Witnesses to know .It didn’t matter to her that the governing body was lying to their people.

I know it is unbelievable but that was her answer.
 
Waynec said:
I actually pointed this out to my JW friend. I showed her what the Watchtower wrote and what the church fathers actually wrote. I showed her how the Watchtower creatively edited the fathers and her response was that the Governing body wrote what they thought was important for the Witnesses to know .It didn’t matter to her that the governing body was lying to their people.

I know it is unbelievable but that was her answer.
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I come from a family with JW background. They are really trained not to ask questions, or even question discrepancies for that matter. It is really just about them keeping their heads down and not asking anything. I am surprised they even agreed to meet and have a discussion.
 
Waynec said:
I actually pointed this out to my JW friend. I showed her what the Watchtower wrote and what the church fathers actually wrote. I showed her how the Watchtower creatively edited the fathers and her response was that the Governing body wrote what they thought was important for the Witnesses to know .It didn’t matter to her that the governing body was lying to their people.

I know it is unbelievable but that was her answer.
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Can you share some examples with us ?
 
Waynec said:
This is where I got some of my info from:

searchingthescriptures.net/main_pages/answering_cults/jehovahs%20witnesses/examining-should_you_believe_in_the_trinity.htm
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Basically, we are saying that the WT has edited or altered quotes and they would make the same accusations about us. I heard one debate on youtube where the JW said the scholarly community should be ashamed of itself for the current translations and only the WT has done it honestly. So how can this ever be reconciled ? Its just fishy. If I went to 100 doctors and 99 of them told me I had (fill in anything), would I listen to the one that said I was fine?

The other issue is that the Trinity is such a difficult thing to prove using the Bible alone. Nicaea was really split on it, each using the Scripture as a defense. So the bishops ruled one way and not the other.
 
ajcstr said:
Basically, we are saying that the WT has edited or altered quotes and they would make the same accusations about us. I heard one debate on youtube where the JW said the scholarly community should be ashamed of itself for the current translations and only the WT has done it honestly. So how can this ever be reconciled ? Its just fishy. If I went to 100 doctors and 99 of them told me I had (fill in anything), would I listen to the one that said I was fine?

The other issue is that the Trinity is such a difficult thing to prove using the Bible alone. Nicaea was really split on it, each using the Scripture as a defense. So the bishops ruled one way and not the other.
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sounds like they are brainwashed as well.
 
PaulDupre1 said:
My son surprised the heck out of a couple of JWs when he quoted from The Book of Wisdom, one of the deutero-canonical books of the OT. The JWs said they weren’t familiar with that passage, so my son explained that there are 7 books missing from the JW bible - that those books were in the bible for the first 1500 years of Christianity and are still in the Catholic and Orthodox bible, but were removed by the Protestant reformers. And that, for some reason, the JWs used the Protestant bible (instead of the original bible) as the basis for their New World Translation.
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Sounds like you did a great job with your son 🙂
PaulDupre1 said:
He also pointed out “an interesting bit of bible trivia” - that the only scriptural reference to the reason for Hanukah (the feast of dedication or feast of lights) is in the Catholic bible (in First Maccabees) - even the Jews don’t have it in their bible any more. The younger of the two JWs was very interested in reading what was in those books, whereupon the older one jumped up and said they had to leave. They never came back, but I wonder if that young man ever went to look up the deutero-canonical books in the Catholic bible.
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Another interesting one is that Hebrews 11:35 reads “Women received their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life”. This is a reference to the story told in 2 Maccabees 7 about the 7 brothers and their mother.
 
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