Having Trouble With Defining Other Christian Groups

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I’ve actually been to some of their small meetings which they call “Life Groups”, but from what I know they don’t preach the Prosperity Gospel. Based on my experience they don’t even bother about doctrine and they merely say that they “just love God” and “it’s not about religion” even though they clearly are following a religion. They also have a strict rule about romantic relationships in that they don’t allow people to date until they have jobs.
Small groups may or may not be representative of the full range of a church’s theology. I bet if you asked the pastor theological questions or even just heard a sermon, you would have some idea about their theological orientation. They can’t just be repeating “we just love God” for 30 minutes. Some clues to what they believe is going to come through.

They could be generically evangelical. Many evangelical churches (including Pentecostal/charismatic ones) have adopted the cell group structure. Also, it wouldn’t be unheard of for an evangelical church to have strict rules on dating, such as no premarital sex, etc. However, in America, I’ve never heard of a church making a hard and fast rule that no dating can take place until you have a job (though from a practical standpoint if you can’t feed yourself you probably shouldn’t be pursuing romantic attachments).

Anyway, I am not familiar with the Protestant context in the Philippines, so can’t really say more.
 
There are so many groups it is hard.

When I ask a Protestant which denomination they are, unless they are Anglican, Baptist or Methodist they don’t know the answer themselves.
 
I think that the label “protestant” is becoming obsolete these days. Many evangelicals don’t want to identify themselves with the mainline protestant churches. .
Ok, It’s a little lengthy, but if you don’t want to be called protestant, then we can use the following phrase instead.
A christian church founded by men who broke away from the Catholic Church in the 16th century or those churches that broke away from them.
 
Small groups may or may not be representative of the full range of a church’s theology. I bet if you asked the pastor theological questions or even just heard a sermon, you would have some idea about their theological orientation. They can’t just be repeating “we just love God” for 30 minutes. Some clues to what they believe is going to come through.
Oh yeah, I remember. At one time I asked one of them the question of Christian unity: why are there so many divisions in Christianity when there should be one Christian church? She answered that the Holy Spirit gives different gifts to people. Is that a clue to which denomination they belong to?

One more thing: do “born-again” Christians belong to Pentecostal or Charismatic churches depending on their doctrinal beliefs or are they an entirely new

I’ve met and heard of a lot of “non-denominational” Christians calling themselves “born-again” Christians in the Philippines. Some of them belong to the church I’ve shown to you guys.
 
Oh yeah, I remember. At one time I asked one of them the question of Christian unity: why are there so many divisions in Christianity when there should be one Christian church? She answered that the Holy Spirit gives different gifts to people. Is that a clue to which denomination they belong to?
Not really. Anyone from an Evangelical to a Mainline Protestant could give that kind of an answer. It does rule out Fundamentalists though, who would most likely say that everyone else but them is wrong.
One more thing: do “born-again” Christians belong to Pentecostal or Charismatic churches depending on their doctrinal beliefs or are they an entirely new

I’ve met and heard of a lot of “non-denominational” Christians calling themselves “born-again” Christians in the Philippines. Some of them belong to the church I’ve shown to you guys.
Born-again Christian is often used by Evangelical Protestants as a self-identifier. Evangelicals stress personal conversion (either as part of an instantaneous experience or as a series of experiences). Because of this, they will sometimes say that they are a “born-again” Christian to distinguish themselves from Christian churches that teach that people become Christians through rites or sacraments of initiation, such as infant baptism.

Pentecostals fall into the category of born-again Christians, and many Charismatics would probably claim the label as well.
 
Ok, It’s a little lengthy, but if you don’t want to be called protestant, then we can use the following phrase instead.
A christian church founded by men who broke away from the Catholic Church in the 16th century or those churches that broke away from them.
You can call me that, or you can call me protestant, or you can call me christian. It’s just a label. It’s been asked regarding the 30,000 different protestant denominations “where is the unity”? As Paul stated:

1 Corinthians 1:12-13New Living Translation (NLT)

12 Some of you are saying, “I am a follower of Paul.” Others are saying, “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Peter,” or “I follow only Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided into factions? Was I, Paul, crucified for you? Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul? Of course not!"

We are united by our faith in Christ. That’s where the unity is. As I stated before: In the USA we’re democrats, republicans, libertarians, independents, etc, but we’re all Americans. In the body of Christ, we’re catholic, orthodox, protestant, etc, but we’re all followers of Christ.
 
You can call me that, or you can call me protestant, or you can call me christian. It’s just a label. It’s been asked regarding the 30,000 different protestant denominations “where is the unity”? As Paul stated:

1 Corinthians 1:12-13New Living Translation (NLT)

12 Some of you are saying, “I am a follower of Paul.” Others are saying, “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Peter,” or “I follow only Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided into factions? Was I, Paul, crucified for you? Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul? Of course not!"

We are united by our faith in Christ. That’s where the unity is. As I stated before: In the USA we’re democrats, republicans, libertarians, independents, etc, but we’re all Americans. In the body of Christ, we’re catholic, orthodox, protestant, etc, but we’re all followers of Christ.
And as is pointed out about God; He is unity, actually Triunity. Three Persons, One God. The Lord is one, the Lord is “echad” in the Hebrew; unity from plurality. All of that to say that it is indeed possible to have unity and have plurality.
 
I agree with andrewstx. Also to me it seems like Protestant groups have somewhat hijacked the word “Christian”. My ex Catholic mother critisizes churches that call themselves Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc and not “Christian” but the thing is when someone says they are Christian now It’s logical to assume they are Protestant. So I identify as Catholic to differentiate. Also I know they don’t do it in purpose but it drives me nuts when a protestant has to make a comparison between “Chistian” and “Catholic”. It seems like the liturgical Protestants , Anglicans Lutherans etc don’t make this mistake it’s more the non denoms and more evangelical ones.
 
What about the non-trinitarians who market themselves as christian?
 
What about the non-trinitarians who market themselves as christian?
I would put them in an “Other” Christian category, as I explained earlier in this thread.
OK, I can go along with this except with one minor change. We need a “Other” category for those churches that are not Catholic, Eastern/Oriental, Orthodox or Protestant. For example, the LDS Church and its offshoots are not Protestant. Likewise, a group like Jehovah’s Witnesses is not Protestant either.

See below for my definition of “Protestant.”

I disagree. Protestants are not “everyone else” but a specific (albeit incredibly broad) umbrella label for many different denominations and traditions that were founded during or emerged after the Protestant Reformation AND hold to the principles of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide while agreeing with the teaching found in the Nicene Creed (aka all Protestants are Trinitarian Christians).

My definition of Protestant would include everything from Lutherans to Pentecostals (except for non-Trinitarian Pentecostals who would be included in the “Other Christian” category).
This is how scholars tend to categorize Christianity. For example, the Pew Forum organizes Christian traditions as Catholic (50.1%), Protestant (36.7%), Orthodox (11.9%), and Other (1.3%). Pew defines “Other Christian” as:

*Members of other Christian groups self-identify as Christian although older Christian traditions may view them as distinct from mainstream Christianity. Many of these groups – including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Christian Science Church – originated in the United States. These groups often depart from traditional Christian beliefs with respect to the trinitarian nature of God and have additional sacred texts beyond the Christian Bible and/or their own authoritative interpretations of the Bible. For example, the canon of the Mormon church includes four texts: the Bible (both Old and New Testaments), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that “Christ is God’s Son and is inferior to Him” as well as that the destruction of the present world system at Armageddon is imminent.15 They prefer their own Bible translation, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.16 Christian Science was founded by Mary Baker Eddy (1821-1910). Her 1875 book, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, is one of its central texts, along with the Bible.17 Other groups in this category include the Unification Church, Swedenborgians and Christadelphians.
*
 
The way I see it there are primarily 2 groups of protestants, the eastern european hus - lutheran, and the western european calvinist.
 
I really don’t understand all the upset about the word Protestant for those denominations that are not Catholic or Orthodox.

Until the last few years none of the denominations mentioned in this thread complained about being called Protestants. Why now are they so unhappy about being referred to as Protestant. As far as I recall up until pretty recently any sect/denomination not Catholic or Orthodox were Protestant, which really means they protest against the Catholic faith.

And it is true that many people in some denominations make a distinction between them being Christian and those who are Catholic, meaning Catholics are not Christians. At least this has been my experience and I think it shows such ignorance and pride on those who claim the title of “Christian” and reject the same for Catholics. Of course they know nothing about the Orthodox Church, so they are safe from this type of behavior.

As I stated this has been my experience with many who are not Catholic and also until pretty recently there were Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants, although many Anglicans who were Anglo Catholic liked to think of themselves as Catholic, as far as I know Protestant was the accepted title for all churches or denominations not Catholic or Orthodox. As a former member of TEC and as both belonging to a low church (very protestant) and then an Anglo Catholic (feeling very Catholic) I am speaking from personal experience.

In the end, I can’t really see that what one calls themselves really makes a difference with God, it is what a person does with the truth of their convictions as a Christian that matters.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
As far as I recall up until pretty recently any sect/denomination not Catholic or Orthodox were Protestant, which really means they protest against the Catholic faith.
Not exactly. Fringe groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons were never considered Protestant because they rejected core Christian teaching (the Trinity) and core Protestant teaching (Sola Scriptura for example).

The term “Protestant” derives from the Letter of Protestation written by a group of Protestant princes in response to decisions of the Imperial Diet (a secular legislative body) that sought to limit the religious freedoms of Lutherans in the Holy Roman Empire. Therefore, the term “Protestant” does not derive from a protest against the Catholic Church but instead to protesting actions of the civil authorities.
 
I really don’t understand all the upset about the word Protestant for those denominations that are not Catholic or Orthodox.

Until the last few years none of the denominations mentioned in this thread complained about being called Protestants. Why now are they so unhappy about being referred to as Protestant. As far as I recall up until pretty recently any sect/denomination not Catholic or Orthodox were Protestant, which really means they protest against the Catholic faith.

And it is true that many people in some denominations make a distinction between them being Christian and those who are Catholic, meaning Catholics are not Christians. At least this has been my experience and I think it shows such ignorance and pride on those who claim the title of “Christian” and reject the same for Catholics. Of course they know nothing about the Orthodox Church, so they are safe from this type of behavior.

As I stated this has been my experience with many who are not Catholic and also until pretty recently there were Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants, although many Anglicans who were Anglo Catholic liked to think of themselves as Catholic, as far as I know Protestant was the accepted title for all churches or denominations not Catholic or Orthodox. As a former member of TEC and as both belonging to a low church (very protestant) and then an Anglo Catholic (feeling very Catholic) I am speaking from personal experience.

In the end, I can’t really see that what one calls themselves really makes a difference with God, it is what a person does with the truth of their convictions as a Christian that matters.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
I choose to exclude Anglican and hence Episcopal from the Protestant churches, their circumstance of origin was entirely different. I do however include Methodist as Wesley was influenced by the Moravian, who are the product of Jan Hus. I also exclude Zwingli since his sphere of influence was simply absorbed into Calvinists.
 
I choose to exclude Anglican and hence Episcopal from the Protestant churches, their circumstance of origin was entirely different. I do however include Methodist as Wesley was influenced by the Moravian, who are the product of Jan Hus. I also exclude Zwingli since his sphere of influence was simply absorbed into Calvinists.
How was Anglicanism’s origins any different from Lutheranism’s? The only different is that the Lutheran churches in Germany had a clear founder in Luther; his teachings came first and then the legal breaks with Rome.

In the case of Anglicanism, you had the legal break with Rome and the theological reform came later, ping ponging from non-Papal Catholicism to Radical Geneva Calvinism to finally something in the middle with the Elizabethan settlement.

The American Episcopal Church certainly thought it was Protestant in 1789 when it named itself the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America.

And the Archbishop of Canterbury and Queen of England certainly thought the Church of England was Protestant in 1953 when she took the following oath:

*Archbishop. Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law? Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges, as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them?

Queen. All this I promise to do.*
 
How was Anglicanism’s origins any different from Lutheranism’s? The only different is that the Lutheran churches in Germany had a clear founder in Luther; his teachings came first and then the legal breaks with Rome.

In the case of Anglicanism, you had the legal break with Rome and the theological reform came later, ping ponging from non-Papal Catholicism to Radical Geneva Calvinism to finally something in the middle with the Elizabethan settlement.

The American Episcopal Church certainly thought it was Protestant in 1789 when it named itself the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America.

And the Archbishop of Canterbury and Queen of England certainly thought the Church of England was Protestant in 1953 when she took the following oath:

Archbishop. Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law? Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges, as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them?

Queen. All this I promise to do.
Oh I have no doubt that it escalated quickly, and there might be some who feel satisfied, even honored with the concept of rebellion, and in fact in my own country, the local Anglican takes every opportunity to rib the Catholic Faith with billboard slogans, probably oblivious to why, but that was not the origins, and anglicans who have not strayed so far from the anglican tree might not see it the way you do, and in fact might disagree with those other anglicans.

I have no doubts that Episcopal inserted the word “protestant” and removed the word “anglican” to appease the primarily calvinistic americans. That went straight through the marketing department, and the result was the necessary “they seem like one of us okay you can co-habit this country.”

But if I was to consider the puritan 1600s in England, they were largely considered to be an annoying nuisance, so they were fairly much run out of town by the Anglicans.
 
Oh I have no doubt that it escalated quickly, and there might be some who feel satisfied, even honored with the concept of rebellion, and in fact in my own country, the local Anglican takes every opportunity to rib the Catholic Faith with billboard slogans, probably oblivious to why, but that was not the origins,
What was not the origins? Rebellion? That’s an odd argument for a Catholic to make. How could a Catholic argue that Henry VIII making himself Head of the Church of England was anything but rebellion?
and anglicans who have not strayed so far from the anglican tree might not see it the way you do, and in fact might disagree with those other anglicans.
I have no doubts that many Anglicans believe they are not Protestant. But that’s historical revisionism introduced by the Oxford Movement. 😉
I have no doubts that Episcopal inserted the word “protestant” and removed the word “anglican” to appease the primarily calvinistic americans. That went straight through the marketing department, and the result was the necessary “they seem like one of us okay you can co-habit this country.”
Actually, the Episcopal Church never eliminated “Anglican” from its name because the word “Anglican” was never officially a part of its name. Prior to the nineteenth century, the term “Anglican” was use relatively little. Episcopalians were simply members of the Church of England. Once the Revolution began and Independence was achieved, it was not very patriotic to attend a church named for your national enemy.

An alternative to “Anglican” was “Episcopal.” This term was an old one, and it had history. In seventeenth century England, Anglicans referred to their Church as the “Episcopal Church” to contrast themselves from the Puritans. In New England as well, the Church of England was occasionally referred to as “the Episcopal Church.” The Scottish Anglicans also called their church the “Protestant Episcopal Church of Scotland.”

The term “Episcopal,” of course, signified that the church was governed by bishops, a fact that distinguished it from other Protestant churches, such as the Presbyterians. The term “Protestant” was added to make clear that the church differed from the Roman Catholic Church (which was also episcopal because it had bishops).

While the War for Independence raged on, Anglicans in various states began to reorganize the Church of England along state lines. In November 1780, a small convention of clergy and laity in Maryland met to discuss how to do this, and it was here that the term “Protestant Episcopal Church” was first used, not to refer to an American church but to refer specifically to the Protestant Episcopal Church in Maryland. The name caught on with Anglicans in other states, and when representatives from the various state churches met for the first General Convention they adopted “Protestant Episcopal” as the name for their national church.

It had little to do with appeasing Calvinists and more to do with choosing a church name that accurately reflected what their church believed (Protestant doctrine, Catholic order) and avoided identifying the church with a national enemy.

There really was no fear among Episcopalians of being thrown out of the US for being confused with Catholics. Episcopalians were then and for a long time afterward the Protestant church for the elite. Also, many states only gave official recognition to Protestant churches, and Episcopalians were never denied legal recognition for not being Protestant.
 
What was not the origins? Rebellion? That’s an odd argument for a Catholic to make. How could a Catholic argue that Henry VIII making himself Head of the Church of England was anything but rebellion?

I have no doubts that many Anglicans believe they are not Protestant. But that’s historical revisionism introduced by the Oxford Movement. 😉

Actually, the Episcopal Church never eliminated “Anglican” from its name because the word “Anglican” was never officially a part of its name. Prior to the nineteenth century, the term “Anglican” was use relatively little. Episcopalians were simply members of the Church of England. Once the Revolution began and Independence was achieved, it was not very patriotic to attend a church named for your national enemy.

An alternative to “Anglican” was “Episcopal.” This term was an old one, and it had history. In seventeenth century England, Anglicans referred to their Church as the “Episcopal Church” to contrast themselves from the Puritans. In New England as well, the Church of England was occasionally referred to as “the Episcopal Church.” The Scottish Anglicans also called their church the “Protestant Episcopal Church of Scotland.”

The term “Episcopal,” of course, signified that the church was governed by bishops, a fact that distinguished it from other Protestant churches, such as the Presbyterians. The term “Protestant” was added to make clear that the church differed from the Roman Catholic Church (which was also episcopal because it had bishops).

While the War for Independence raged on, Anglicans in various states began to reorganize the Church of England along state lines. In November 1780, a small convention of clergy and laity in Maryland met to discuss how to do this, and it was here that the term “Protestant Episcopal Church” was first used, not to refer to an American church but to refer specifically to the Protestant Episcopal Church in Maryland. The name caught on with Anglicans in other states, and when representatives from the various state churches met for the first General Convention they adopted “Protestant Episcopal” as the name for their national church.

It had little to do with appeasing Calvinists and more to do with choosing a church name that accurately reflected what their church believed (Protestant doctrine, Catholic order) and avoided identifying the church with a national enemy.

There really was no fear among Episcopalians of being thrown out of the US for being confused with Catholics. Episcopalians were then and for a long time afterward the Protestant church for the elite. Also, many states only gave official recognition to Protestant churches, and Episcopalians were never denied legal recognition for not being Protestant.
Most of what you say agrees with what I said, you possibly think you are saying something different. You believe Anglican has protestant doctrine, that is incorrect. In the 39 articles of swaying backwards and forwards between two camps there is only one Article that could be considered protestant. Article 22.

Now Henry VIII was only interested in remarriage. That is a moral grounds. That is the only reason. Nothing else. Only a moral ground for the split, not your protestant theology. Though John Henry Newman recognized that they had wandered far from the tree.

So no I don’t place them in the protestant camp.
 
Most of what you say agrees with what I said, you possibly think you are saying something different. You believe Anglican has protestant doctrine, that is incorrect. In the 39 articles of swaying backwards and forwards between two camps there is only one Article that could be considered protestant. Article 22.

Now Henry VIII was only interested in remarriage. That is a moral grounds. That is the only reason. Nothing else. Only a moral ground for the split, not your protestant theology. Though John Henry Newman recognized that they had wandered far from the tree.

So no I don’t place them in the protestant camp.
What about these articles:
XIII. Of Works before Justification.
Works done before the grace of Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, are not pleasant to God, forasmuch as they spring not of faith in Jesus Christ, neither do they make men meet to receive grace, or (as the School authors say) deserve grace of congruity: yea, rather for that they are not done as God hath willed and commanded them to be done, we doubt not but they have the nature of sin.
XIX. Of the Church.
THE visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful men, in the which the pure word of God is preached and the sacraments be duly ministered according to Christ’s ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same. As the Church of Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch have erred: so also the Church of Rome hath erred, not only in their living and manner of ceremonies, but also in matters of faith.
XX. Of the Authority of the Church.
THE Church hath power to decree rites or ceremonies and authority in controversies of faith; and yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain anything contrary to God’s word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of Holy Writ: yet, as it ought not to decree anything against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce anything to be believed for necessity of salvation.
(See that it does not mention obedience towards the Pope)
These sound very Protestant to me.
 
Most of what you say agrees with what I said, you possibly think you are saying something different. You believe Anglican has protestant doctrine, that is incorrect.
I believe that classical Anglicanism is Protestant. Today, it’s hard to p(name removed by moderator)oint one theology that can be said to be Anglican because there are so many. There are many Anglo-Catholics who arguable are more Catholic than the Pope. There are other Anglicans who might be High Church but essentially Protestant in their beliefs. And then there are many Anglicans who reach into the strong tradition of Reformed Anglican that has always been a current and reflect a low church Anglicanism strongly tinged with Calvinism, as can be seen everywhere in the Diocese of Sydney, Australia.
In the 39 articles of swaying backwards and forwards between two camps there is only one Article that could be considered protestant. Article 22.
I think it’s an arguable point just how “Protestant” and “Catholic” Anglicanism is supposed to be. But to say that the 39 Articles of Religion are not a strongly Calvinist doctrine is frankly contrary to the plain reading of the text.

Article 6: Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation.

Article 10: The condition of Man after the fall of Adam is such, that he cannot turn and prepare himself, by his own natural strength and good works, to faith, and calling upon God: Wherefore we have no power to do good works pleasant and acceptable to God, without the grace of God by Christ preventing us, that we may have a good will, and working with us, when we have that good will.

Article 11: We are accounted righteous before God, only for the merit of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith, and not for our own works or deservings; Wherefore, that we are justified by Faith only is a most wholesome Doctrine, and very full of comfort, as more largely is expressed in the Homily of Justification.

Article 12: Albeit that Good Works, which are the fruits of Faith, and follow after Justification, cannot put away our sins, and endure the severity of God’s Judgement; yet are they pleasing and acceptable to God in Christ, and do spring out necessarily of a true and lively Faith; insomuch that by them a lively Faith may be as evidently known as a tree discerned by the fruit.

Article 13: Works done before the grace of Christ, and the Inspiration of his Spirit, are not pleasant to God, forasmuch as they spring not of faith in Jesus Christ, neither do they make men meet to receive grace, or (as the School-authors say) deserve grace of congruity: yea rather, for that they are not done as God willed and commanded them to be done, we doubt not but they have the nature of sin.

Article 14: Voluntary Works besides, over and above, God’s Commandments, which they call Works of impiety: for by them men do declare, that they do not only render unto God as much as they are bound to do, but that they do more for his sake, than of bounden duty is required: whereas Christ saith plainly, When ye have done all that are commanded to you, say, We are unprofitable servants.

Article 17: Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God’s purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God’s mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity. . . .

Article 19: The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful men . . . As the Church of Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch, have erred; so also the Church of Rome hath erred, not only in their living and manner of Ceremonies, but also in matters of Faith.

Article 20: The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: And yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to God’s Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of Salvation.

Article 21: General Councils . . . And when they be gathered together, (forasmuch as they be an assembly of men, whereof all be not governed with the Spirit and Word of God,) they may err, and sometimes have erred, even in things pertaining unto God. Wherefore things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor authority, unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy Scripture.
Now Henry VIII was only interested in remarriage. That is a moral grounds. That is the only reason. Nothing else. Only a moral ground for the split, not your protestant theology. Though John Henry Newman recognized that they had wandered far from the tree.
Henry VIII was not a Luther. Anglicans today do not ask themselves “What would Henry do.” They look to Thomas Cranmer and Richard Hooker and to the Book of Common Prayer and the historical formularies. The English Reformation did not stop at the death of King Henry. It continued.
 
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