Having troubles with the concept of the trinity?

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Ok,let me try to explain myself here.

Jesus was god in flesh,he was the knower of all things,the almighty,the creator,most powerful.Jesus DIDN’T justify that “in my opinion”.

I mean,he didnt seem ‘All knowing’ or ‘all powerful’ to me, i mean he did,but not as much as i would imagine the creator to be.

Also,he is ALL knowing,how come he said only the father knows when the end times are?
It seems as though each of the persons in the trinity had different jobs to be doing,which makes it seem as though they are different gods.

It feels that if jesus and the father were the same,how could jesus not know some things that father knew??

Seriously could somone explain this to me simpler…not just provide a link.

Help much apperciated.:confused:
 
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Jn. 1:1) This shows that although Jesus is separate from God, He is God. Simple, eh?

He answered them, "It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has established by his own authority. (Acts 1:7) Where in this statement does Jesus say, “I don’t know”? He just says, “It’s not for YOU to know”.

Notworthy
 
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godsent:
Ok,let me try to explain myself here.

Jesus was god in flesh,he was the knower of all things,the almighty,the creator,most powerful.Jesus DIDN’T justify that “in my opinion”.

I mean,he didnt seem ‘All knowing’ or ‘all powerful’ to me, i mean he did,but not as much as i would imagine the creator to be.

Also,he is ALL knowing,how come he said only the father knows when the end times are?
It seems as though each of the persons in the trinity had different jobs to be doing,which makes it seem as though they are different gods.

It feels that if jesus and the father were the same,how could jesus not know some things that father knew??

Seriously could somone explain this to me simpler…not just provide a link.

Help much apperciated.:confused:
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Regarding Jesus’ knowledge about the “end times”, you have to remember that Christ is not only in the Nature of God, but of Man, and so in His human nature He was able to grow in the knowledge and wisdom that pertains to being a Man. So when addressed about “the End” we see Him limiting His answer to what He knows as Man, because this is information that is not for mankind to know, only to be prepared for. As St. Augustine said, “It was no part of His teaching duty to make it [the day of the General Judgment] known to us.”

A book I think you would find exceedingly helpful is Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners. It gives a very good and readable response to the difficulties you have at the moment. It’s available through the Catholic Answers’ online store.
 
I have trouble with the concept of the Trininty too. I personally believe The Father and Jesus are seperate entities though I believe the Holy Spirit is God’s spirit. The Bible also states that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father judging the living and the dead.
 
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FCEGM:
Regarding Jesus’ knowledge about the “end times”, you have to remember that Christ is not only in the Nature of God, but of Man, and so in His human nature He was able to grow in the knowledge and wisdom that pertains to being a Man. So when addressed about “the End” we see Him limiting His answer to what He knows as Man, because this is information that is not for mankind to know, only to be prepared for. As St. Augustine said, “It was no part of His teaching duty to make it [the day of the General Judgment] known to us.”

A book I think you would find exceedingly helpful is Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners. It gives a very good and readable response to the difficulties you have at the moment. It’s available through the Catholic Answers’ online store.
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I’ll second the above.

St. Paul put it this way
“Let the same mind be in you that was£ in Christ Jesus,
who, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.”

Jesus had two natures, human and divine (difficult for us to grasp this), but while on earth he put aside his divine nature and was “as all men are”. So he operated through his human nature, he had to learn and grow in knowledge and wisdom.

When he performed miracles is was through the power of the Holy Spirit, not through his own divine power which he laid aside on taking flesh.

In the Trinity there are three persons - again a concept outside our experience and difficult to understand. And I read a book recently that says that even the concept of personality as we understand it today is not quite the right way of expressing it.

Therer are various analogies used but all of them, while they can be helpful, can also lead us into misundestandings.

It’s a mystery
 
Anne G:
I have trouble with the concept of the Trininty too. I personally believe The Father and Jesus are seperate entities though I believe the Holy Spirit is God’s spirit. The Bible also states that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father judging the living and the dead.
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Anne, as a Catholic you are to assent to all that the Church teaches regarding Faith and Morals; the difficulties we may have must be addressed through prayer, study, and more prayer - all with a humble desire to be in conformity with Christ and His Church. I strongly urge you to read Frank Sheed’s wonderful book that I recommended above.
 
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godsent:
Ok,let me try to explain myself here.

Jesus was god in flesh,he was the knower of all things,the almighty,the creator,most powerful.Jesus DIDN’T justify that “in my opinion”.

I mean,he didnt seem ‘All knowing’ or ‘all powerful’ to me, i mean he did,but not as much as i would imagine the creator to be.

Also,he is ALL knowing,how come he said only the father knows when the end times are?
It seems as though each of the persons in the trinity had different jobs to be doing,which makes it seem as though they are different gods.

It feels that if jesus and the father were the same,how could jesus not know some things that father knew??

Seriously could somone explain this to me simpler…not just provide a link.

Help much apperciated.:confused:
Click to expand...
Jesus had both a human and a divine nature, so be careful you don’t mix the two. Read the first link first.

Recommended Reading:
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a3p1.htm#III

an excerpt:

**471 **Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.100

**472 **This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”,101 and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.102 This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.103

**473 **But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.104 "The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God."105 Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.106 The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.107 **474 **By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.108 What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.109

rosary-center.org/ll47n3.htm
 
There is an excellent chapter on the Trinity in the book Theology For Beginners by F.J. Sheed.
 
I had a person one time denying the trinity. He worked in a book store where I was a regular customer. We had talked several times and one time we got into a discussion about the trinity. He was adamant that God was just 1, and I agreed with him, and then he would say how can he be three persons? I finally just said “Well I guess I’ll never get you to understand it since the only thing you are is a person who works at the bookstore”. He asked me to explain and I said, “To me you are Steve the guy at the bookstore, but I don’t know much about you”. I asked him if he was married. He said yes. I then asked him if he had parents, he said yes. So I said “Let me get this straight, you are Steve, the bookstore employee, Steve the husband, and Steve the son? How is that possible since you are only 1 person?” He thought about it and said, each thing is just a different aspect of what he is. At that point, I said, “You just stated to me that you are a type of trinity at least if not more, I mean you can also be Steve the friend, Steve the bowler, etc… I said if you can be a trinity, or more, why do you think God can’t be a trinity?” He of course didn’t have an answer for this.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are just different aspects of what God is.

That is how I view the trinity and for myself I leave it at that. It may be oversimplified but for me it is what works.
 
Greg, but you’re just describing different roles of Steve. God doesn’t just have different roles, He is three Persons.

For instance, if Steve lost his job at the Bookstore, he’d still be the same Steve, but with different roles in life.

If God didn’t have the Holy Spirit, it wouldn’t be the same God.

Notworthy
 
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NotWorthy:
Greg, but you’re just describing different roles of Steve. God doesn’t just have different roles, He is three Persons.

For instance, if Steve lost his job at the Bookstore, he’d still be the same Steve, but with different roles in life.

If God didn’t have the Holy Spirit, it wouldn’t be the same God.

Notworthy
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Right but the difference is God CANNOT lose the Holy Spirit, like a human can lose a job. Also perhaps using his job wasn’t the best example, but it was an example. I could have said Steve, the greatgrandson, Steve the grandson and Steve, the son which is a status Steve would have always had, but it is a moot point. Like I said, the difference is that God has always forever been and will always forever be the 3 divine persons. The problem is that the aspect of the trinity is very hard for our feeble human minds to grasp in its fullness. So we can only do the best we can to understand the mystery of it.
 
Sometimes people think they are having trouble with the concept of the Trinity, but they are really having trouble with the idea of the Incarnation. They are two separate ideas.

With regard to the Trinity, sometimes Catholics and other Christians seem to speak of the Father, Son, and Spirit as if they really were three Gods. They are not. They cannot be, because God is One.

Father, Son, & Spirit are not separate entities, not separate Beings. God is only One Being.

“Being” really means “nature,” or “entity.”

God can only be One. He is three Persons. (Person is that which says “I.” Nature is that which defines “what is it?”)

By nature, you are one human being whose personhood is expressed in one person.

By nature, God is one divine being whose personhood is expressed in three distinct persons.

Now, as for the Incarnation:

One of those Persons–the Second–while keeping his divine nature (he could not separate from his nature), took on a human nature as well.

That makes Jesus a human being, and a divine being, but a divine person.

One person; two natures.

A person acts according to his nature. Because Jesus has both a human nature and a divine nature, he acts both as a human being and a divine being. He has human knowledge (which is limited). He has divine knowledge, which is unlimited.
 
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gelsbern:
I had a person one time denying the trinity. He worked in a book store where I was a regular customer. We had talked several times and one time we got into a discussion about the trinity. He was adamant that God was just 1, and I agreed with him, and then he would say how can he be three persons? I finally just said “Well I guess I’ll never get you to understand it since the only thing you are is a person who works at the bookstore”. He asked me to explain and I said, “To me you are Steve the guy at the bookstore, but I don’t know much about you”. I asked him if he was married. He said yes. I then asked him if he had parents, he said yes. So I said “Let me get this straight, you are Steve, the bookstore employee, Steve the husband, and Steve the son? How is that possible since you are only 1 person?” He thought about it and said, each thing is just a different aspect of what he is. At that point, I said, “You just stated to me that you are a type of trinity at least if not more, I mean you can also be Steve the friend, Steve the bowler, etc… I said if you can be a trinity, or more, why do you think God can’t be a trinity?” He of course didn’t have an answer for this.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are just different aspects of what God is.

That is how I view the trinity and for myself I leave it at that. It may be oversimplified but for me it is what works.
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I would explain it more with your soul and your body. You have both a soul and a bodyl they are completely distint. But at the same time, they are one and the same person. There is a union between the two; they are one. In the same way God is one, except His unity is far greater than that of our soul and body.
 
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godsent:
Ok,let me try to explain myself here.

Jesus was god in flesh,he was the knower of all things,the almighty,the creator,most powerful.Jesus DIDN’T justify that “in my opinion”.
Click to expand...
never begin or conclude a sentence about an absolute divinely revealed truth with “in my opinion”. Truth is objective, and your opinion or my opinion is irrelevant. It really means “my lack of knowledge and understanding” or “my unwillingness to accept the consistent, divinely inspired teaching of the Catholic Church”. Opinion relates to relative values, not to absolutes.
 
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godsent:
Also,he is ALL knowing,how come he said only the father knows when the end times are?
Click to expand...
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godsent:
It feels that if jesus and the father were the same,how could jesus not know some things that father knew??
Click to expand...
Hello,

To understand this, you must know a little about Jewish marriage rituals. Jesus and the Apostles use the ideas of marraige alot in the New Testament. They repeatedly refer to Christ as the Bridegroom and the Church as His Bride.

When a Jewish man married a Jewish woman, the first step was the betrothal. At the betrothal, they exchange their wedding vows and are in essence legally married.

After this the bridegroom will return to his father’s house while preparing a house for him and his bride. It is only when the father says that the house is ready that the bridegroom returns to fetch his bride and bring her home.

That is why Jesus says only the Father knows the time. He is speaking in terms of marraige when the Father will issue the order for Christ to fetch His Bride.

I hope that this helps.
 
gelsbern said:
Right but the difference is God CANNOT lose the Holy Spirit, like a human can lose a job. Also perhaps using his job wasn’t the best example, but it was an example. I could have said Steve, the greatgrandson, Steve the grandson and Steve, the son which is a status Steve would have always had, but it is a moot point. Like I said, the difference is that God has always forever been and will always forever be the 3 divine persons. The problem is that the aspect of the trinity is very hard for our feeble human minds to grasp in its fullness. So we can only do the best we can to understand the mystery of it.
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I know this is an extremely old thread, but I was just reading it today. The Trinity is not as hard to explain as most people think it is. We have examples all around us. Try H2O (water) for instance, it can be liquid, ice and steam, but it’s still H2O. Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 that we are spirit, soul and body. If we are truly made in God’s image, then it is not surprising, that we too would be comprised of a trinity.
God Bless,
Benaiah (John14:6)
 
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