He got in my face, was hitting me, and choked me

[marietta]

mapleoak writes:

“When you see someone whose life is in danger, do [you] refrain from action and simply say to yourself ‘gee, my life is rich and righteous and full, I am going to mind my own business.’?”

If some asks me for help I will take action. I do not offer unsolicited aid in a circumstance where a grown woman is capable of using her own judgment and conscience in making a life decision.

In looking back, I cannot recall one time when I have ever said to myself, “gee, my life is rich and righteous and full”. It is not.

marietta

 

[mapleoak]

If some asks me for help I will take action. I do not offer unsolicited aid in a circumstance where a grown woman is capable of using her own judgment and conscience in making a life decision.

Really! If someone was hit by a car, trapped in a burning building, held at gunpoint, or whatever the case may be where their life is threatened, you would mind your own business until the “grown woman” solicits your aid?

 

[marietta]

Really! If someone was hit by a car, trapped in a burning building, held at gunpoint, or whatever the case may be where their life is threatened, you would mind your own business until the “grown woman” solicits your aid?

A grown woman (or man or child, for that matter) who has been hit by a car or trapped in a burning building or held at gunpoint has not entered into that situation of his or her free will. This person has not been given an opportunity to choose to participate in the incident by use of his/her own best judgment and conscience.

You are speaking of crisis which might call for my assessment, and if someone asks me for help I will offer it. I have never attempted to influence any woman one way or the other with regard to her consideration of abortion. I have shared my experience with several women, but I have never tried to sway their feelings, thoughts or beliefs in any way. It simply is not my place to do so.

I would not move an individual who has been hit by a car out of the roadway; I would not run into a burning building to save any person; I would not appoint myself a SWAT Team of One and attempt to free a hostage. I would call law enforcement and medics onto the scene if warranted.

A woman deciding whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term? Not my affair.

marietta

 

[mapleoak]

A grown woman (or man or child, for that matter) who has been hit by a car or trapped in a burning building or held at gunpoint has not entered into that situation of his or her free will.

And the unborn baby did not get itself into the situation where he is going to be killed of his own free will.

This person has not been given an opportunity to choose to participate in the incident by use of his/her own best judgment and conscience.

Neither has the unborn child.

You are speaking of crisis which might call for my assessment, and if someone asks me for help I will offer it. I have never attempted to influence any woman one way or the other with regard to her consideration of abortion. I have shared my experience with several women, but I have never tried to sway their feelings, thoughts or beliefs in any way. It simply is not my place to do so.

Since there are two people, one of which is going to be killed, then by your statements, you would come to the aid of the unborn before he is killed? Unless you are contradicting yourself.

I would not move an individual who has been hit by a car out of the roadway; I would not run into a burning building to save any person; I would not appoint myself a SWAT Team of One and attempt to free a hostage. I would call law enforcement and medics onto the scene if warranted.

Isn’t calling law enforcement or the fire department, etc., doing something other than standing idly by minding ones own business.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

**Mary Gail 36:**All’s fair in love and war.

marietta

I agree with Marietta, the criminal here is the photographer.

Abortion is legal, get over it. You want to protest, protest your government. Protesting outside an abortion clinic is like protesting high gas prices at the gas station.

When vigilanties decide to take the law into their own hands you get people like Eric Rudolph. Is that what you think will affect change?

 

[mapleoak]

Abortion is legal, get over it. You want to protest, protest your government. Protesting outside an abortion clinic is like protesting high gas prices at the gas station.

Suppose it were legal for your neighbor to come and kill your son. Further suppose he is on his way over at this moment to kill your son knowing he has the protection of the law. What would you say would be your course of action? Do you start protesting your government like you do high gases prices at the gas station?

 

[peregrinus_WA]

California Penal Code section 646.9(e) defines “Harassment” as:

“A knowing and willful course of conduct directed at a specific person that seriously alarms, annoys, torments, or terrorizes the person, and that serves no legitimate purpose. This course of conduct must be such as would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress and must actually cause substantial distress to the person.”

The doctor was operating within the bounds of law. The photographer was not. And as for the “legitimate purpose”, his could be either pursuit of his 15 minutes of fame or recompense for the photographs. Who here believes that this intrepid photographer should be rewarded in any way for his behavior?

And the *doctor *should go to jail? I vote the photographer should be assigned 100 hours community service picking up the demonstrators’ tear-stained tissues on the grounds outside the clinic. No camera. Mouth shut.

marietta

I agree with Marietta, the criminal here is the photographer.

Abortion is legal, get over it. You want to protest, protest your government. Protesting outside an abortion clinic is like protesting high gas prices at the gas station.

When vigilanties decide to take the law into their own hands you get people like Eric Rudolph. Is that what you think will affect change?

When “Positive Law” is against God’s Natural Law, we have a right to ignore and oppose such laws as long as the opposition DOES NOT violates God’s Natural Law.

Abortion is Murder and anyone who performs, advances, and advocates such endeavors are the criminals and should be locked away.

As for the protester. He is protected by the First Amendment and is not the criminal no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

California Penal Code section 646.9(e) defines “Harassment” as:

“A knowing and willful course of conduct directed at a specific person that seriously alarms, annoys, torments, or terrorizes the person, and that serves no legitimate purpose

You actually think a person taking pictures “would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress”?

Wow. So when I filed a medical claim for injuries against an insurance company for a car accident and the insurance company sent some people out to my house to take pictures of me getting into my car I could have assaulted them and been well within my rights? or filed a harrassment lawsuit against the insurance company and it’s agents?

Darn. I wish I would’ve known this at the time. Not that I would’ve assaulted the photographers, just that I could’ve threatened the claims adjuster with an additional harrassment lawsuit. Good thing to know.

You also think it’s within the bounds of law to assault, including choking a person, because they feel threatened by having pictures taken of them? If so, then why was the -]doctor/-] abortionist and not the photographer arrested?

Who here believes that this intrepid photographer should be rewarded in any way for his behavior?

Me. I do.

In fact, he even asked a police officer if he had the right to take pictures and the officer said he did. I think the photographer should be compensated for his injuries, emotional distress and the -]doctor/-] abortionist should be made to pay punitive damages as well.

And the -]doctor/-] [abortionist] should go to jail?

Yep. He already did. He got himself arrested for assault & battery. The -]doctor/-] abortionist went to jail, did not pass go, did not collect $200.

Police arrested Pfupajena, 66, for assault and battery and cited him on the charges and released him.

Of course, we all know that abortionists aren’t exactly the cream of the crop. This one’s no exception.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

As for the protester. He is protected by the First Amendment and is not the criminal no matter how you try to spin it.

Thank you.

Why would your friends need to initiate any sort of “self defense” if the violent triggering act was simply a person photographing them from perhaps hundreds of yards away?

Why would the abortionist need to initiate any sort of “self defense” if the violent triggering act was simply a person photographing them from perhaps hundreds of yards away?

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

To Ted
“abortion is legal, get over it” Sorry, a mother murdering her own
child/children may be legal, but it is not right. We’re not going to
“get over it”
To the Protesters in front of the clinics, (I have been one at one time, but currently my pro-life activities are in another direction)
God Bless You and keep it up. If just one life had been spared so
far, one life would have been worth it. Thankfully, there are so
many lives saved from this activity.
As to the abortionist, I hope and pray he will cease his activity.

 

[marietta]

Since there are two people, one of which is going to be killed, then by your statements, you would come to the aid of the unborn before he is killed? Unless you are contradicting yourself.

Isn’t calling law enforcement or the fire department, etc., doing something other than standing idly by minding ones own business.

I would aid the **mother **if she asked me personally to give her assistance, no matter if she chose abortion or to carry her pregnancy to term. No contradiction.

I would call law enforcement if instructed to do so. I have called the fire department regarding a fire that was burning over top of a roadway and was curtly told that it was a controlled burn and I was wasting time calling 911. I don’t call unless another individual suggests that I do so.

marietta

 

[marietta]

The photographer made sure that he was not breaking the law by taking pictures and when he was told that he was not he continued. If it really was that big of an issue for the doctor then WHY did he not call the police about the harassment he felt he was getting from the photographer?

“Excuse me, sir, while you are harassing me with your superb stalking techniques and taking photographs of me in direct opposition to my request that you stop, why don’t I just pop inside the building and call 911 or see if I can find my cell phone in my desk? I know you’ll be right here, lurking and waiting for me to emerge so you can resume your annoying activities. Be right back!”

Huh?

marietta

 

[marietta]

As for the protester. He is protected by the First Amendment and is not the criminal no matter how you try to spin it.

Stalking is the obsessive following, observing, or contacting of another person, or the obsessive attempt to engage in any of these activities. This includes following the person to certain places, to see where they live or what the person does on a daily basis, it also includes seeking and obtaining the person’s personal information in order to contact him or her; e.g. looking for his or her details on computers, electoral rolls, personal files and other material containing the person’s private information without his or her consent.

The First Amendment does not protect stalkers.

marietta

 

[bilop]

I would aid the **mother **if she asked me personally to give her assistance, no matter if she chose abortion or to carry her pregnancy to term. No contradiction.

I would call law enforcement if instructed to do so. I have called the fire department regarding a fire that was burning over top of a roadway and was curtly told that it was a controlled burn and I was wasting time calling 911. I don’t call unless another individual suggests that I do so.

marietta

So you would assist a woman in getting an abortion!?

But, you would not call 911 if you saw a potentially dangerous or criminal situation UNLESS someone else suggests it?

All I can say is WOW!

Ever heard of Kitty Genovese?

God Bless

 

[allhers]

I agree with this part of the article.
“This abortionist is a danger to the public, and should have his license revoked.”
lifenews.com/state3428.html

Now I’ll tell you why. Years ago, I was praying outside and across the street from an abortion mill with a group of other peaceful protestors when out of the door came some woman, she crossed the street, got in our faces, was so close to mine that her spittle was hitting my face while she screamed at us. We all just kept right on praying, not one person even addressed her, acted like she was there, or even moved. In a couple of minutes she left.
I honestly have no idea as to what she even said.

Later we found out that she was the owner of the abortion mill. Now, if we could all control ourselves, that abortionist could have too. Of course we were just peacefully praying, we hadn’t just murdered some babies.

I’ve been there praying before too when someone was filming us on a video camera, that didn’t bother me either. I didn’t really give it any thought at all, just kept praying. As a matter of fact, I
never even gave it a second thought and didn’t even think about it again until now.

I bet if that so called “Doctor” started praying instead of taking part in murdering babies things like that wouldn’t bother him either.

So Marietta, you think I should have stopped praying and “decked” her? You think I would have been justified right?:whacky:
I guess that is just one more difference between us. I think if I could remain calm and unmoved under the circumstances, that the abortion “Doctor” could have too. Actually what he had to go through was less than what I and the others put up with that day from the woman who owned that abortion mill.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I found another account of this from, what I could understand, is a secular, website. he article contains some objectionable language…so I guess read a your discretion

After the man exited the clinic, Nissen snapped a shot before the jacket could be used as a cover again. The man then got in his car, and Nissen shot more photos.“The doctor had apparently had enough,” Sullenger said. “He started to drive off, but then he got out of his car, demanded the camera, said Tim had no right to take his photo. Tim did not want give it to him, so he started back pedaling as the guy was pushing and grabbing at his camera. Tim fell over backwards and hit his head on a parking meter pole. It really jacked up his back. He lost control of his camera, his knuckles were all scraped.”

…the “doctor” managed to get into his car, drive away but then got out to “defend” himself.
He seem to not have an airtight “self defense case” after all.

blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/breaking-news/a-pictures-worth-a-thousand-wh-1/

 

[juliasmith]

The photographer admits he intentionally pursued and provoked the Dr. Abortion is wrong but this behavior does not help the cause. They both should do jail time for stupid behavior.

 

[allhers]

From the article that Mary Gail 36 posted at:
blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/breaking-news/a-pictures-worth-a-thousand-wh-1

A California Medical Board complaint accused Dr. Phillip Rand of having performed a “barbaric” abortion at the Santa Ana location in the summer of 2004. Then in his early 80s, Rand administered no anesthesia or painkillers to a woman identified as Angela P. before he performed a vaginal suction procedure. Paramedics later arrived at the clinic to find Angela lying in a pool of her own blood, her pulse racing and her blood pressure dangerously low…

Rand surrendered his medical license in 2005. According to a Los Angeles Times report at the time, he was one of at least six doctors with histories of malpractice complaints, addiction or medical board actions who were employed by the Clinica Medica chain…

Owner Bertha Pinedo Bugarin, 48, just pleaded not guilty this past July 8 to posing as a physician to perform abortions without a license at Clinica Medica in Chula Vista. She also faces charges there of being unlicensed when she prescribed women the drug mifepristone, and a second set of counts for being unlicensed as she aborted fetuses and prescribed medication at a Clinica Medica in Los Angeles. Raquel Bugarin, Bertha’s 49-year-old sister, also faces charges in both counties for having helped Bertha with the procedures…

Another abortion practitioner in the chain, Laurence Reich, was arrested earlier this year for allegedly performing abortions even though his medical license had been revoked last year after a second conviction of having sexually molested patients.

Gee, I wonder why anyone would think anything illegal was happening there??? That isn’t stalking!!!

The very fact that the man got back out of his car, instead of just driving away shows that he made the decision to act in an unlawful manner, that would be why he was sited by the police.

 

[marietta]

So Marietta, you think I should have stopped praying and “decked” her? You think I would have been justified right?

I wouldn’t presume to suggest to you what you should or should not have done in that situation or any other situation. If you stopped praying, that would be your choice. If you decked her, that would be your choice. My thoughts about whether or not you would have been justified are irrelevant.

marietta

 

[allhers]

Look, pro-life advocates are not treading lightly on the legal rights of women all across this country. You don’t have to agree with women who seek abortions, you don’t have to house them in your basements, you don’t have to give them money or rides anywhere. But when you disregard the legal rights of these women you can expect tempers to flare, punches to be thrown, and bruises to show up under the skin. The women get upset, the boyfriends and husbands get angry, the pro-lifers get a little too enthusiastic, and soon enough somebody gets hurt. That’s part and parcel of the situation. All’s fair in love and war.

Your friend should learn to duck.

marietta

The reason I asked was because of this post of yours. I don’t “expect tempers to flare, punches to be thrown, and bruises to show up under the skin”.

The purpose of being there is so that the little ones won’t die alone, without prayers being offered for them, and the hope and prayer that the woman may change her mind, or be allowed to freely leave if she so desires, as we have heard so many horror stories as to how that hasn’t been allowed to happen.

Women from having abortions in the past are finally speaking up, thank God, I am sure more and more will be revealed as we go along, in the mean time, I’ll keep praying to that end.

This evil won’t last forever and all will be revealed.

One last thing, sounds like something else illegal going on if people have to hide people in their basements.