"He shall be called a Nazorean"

[HailMary]

Hello my separated Christian

I come with a point of meditation for you that has to do with tradition. As you may know, we Catholics have Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Here is an example of a Sacred Tradition, most everyone looks over.

Matthew 2:23:

He went and dwelt in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets[might be fulfilled, "**He shall be called a Nazorean

."
Please, can anyone tell me the source of this prophecy?

I will save your time: you cannot because it is no where to be found in the bible. It was a TRADITION that was handed down through the ages.

In other words, if you hold to the notion of SOLA SCRIPTURA, then, as a 21st century Christian, should reject this prophecy since there is no evidence, in the bible, that any prophet of God ever spoke such a thing.

Else, you are lying to yourself and do not really practice Sola Scriptura: making yourself out to be a mini-pope.

You comments are welcome!

God Bless

St. Joseph, terror of demons, pray for us!

 

[ProdigalSonOfOz]

Matthew 23:2-3 “seat of Moses”.

Reference to Exodus 18:13-26. The bible contains no reference to this after Moses, yet the fact that The Pharisees sit on the chair indicates succession of authority.

I Corinthians 10:4: 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Exodus 17:1-7 refers to a rock but not in this context. This legend is found ONLY in the Mishna

1 Peter 3:19 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

This is a direct reference to 1 Enoch 12-16. Not in the Bible!

Jude 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

This is not contained within the Bible, it draws on Jewish Oral Tradition

Jude 14-15

Direct quote from 1 Enoch 1:9

2 Timothy 3:8:

Jannes and Jambres cannot be found in the related Old Testament passage (Exodus 7:8 ff.).

**James 5:17: **

The reference to a lack of rain for three years is likewise absent from the relevant Old Testament passage in 1 Kings 17.

John 20:23, Matt 18:18, Matt 16:19 “binding and losing”

The term is only found in the Mishna

 

[ProdigalSonOfOz]

There are MANY elements of the NT are that are direct references to Jewish Sacred Tradition (Mishna). Heres a few more…

Matthew 23:2-3 “seat of Moses”: Reference to Exodus 18:13-26. The bible contains no reference to this after Moses, yet the fact that The Pharisees sit on the chair indicates succession of authority.

I Corinthians 10:4: 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ: Exodus 17:1-7 refers to a rock but not in this context. This legend is found ONLY in the Mishna

1 Peter 3:19 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison: This is a direct reference to 1 Enoch 12-16. Not in the Bible!

Jude 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. : This is not contained within the Bible, it draws on Jewish Oral Tradition

Jude 14-15: Direct quote from 1 Enoch 1:9

**2 Timothy 3:8: **: Jannes and Jambres cannot be found in the related Old Testament passage (Exodus 7:8 ff.).

**James 5:17: **: The reference to a lack of rain for three years is likewise absent from the relevant Old Testament passage in 1 Kings 17

John 20:23, Matt 18:18, Matt 16:19 “binding and losing”: The term is only found in the Mishna

 

[Reformed1]

Hello my separated Christian

I come with a point of meditation for you that has to do with tradition. As you may know, we Catholics have Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Here is an example of a Sacred Tradition, most everyone looks over.

Matthew 2:23:

Please, can anyone tell me the source of this prophecy?

I will save your time: you cannot because it is no where to be found in the bible. It was a TRADITION that was handed down through the ages.

In other words, if you hold to the notion of SOLA SCRIPTURA, then, as a 21st century Christian, should reject this prophecy since there is no evidence, in the bible, that any prophet of God ever spoke such a thing.

Else, you are lying to yourself and do not really practice Sola Scriptura: making yourself out to be a mini-pope.

You comments are welcome!

God Bless

St. Joseph, terror of demos, pray for us!

But it is now scripture is it not?

 

[NotWorthy]

But it is now scripture is it not?

So you missed the point. The OP said, “For it was written by the prophets……”

Not, "now that I’ve written it, I can say it was written by the prophets.…"

 

[RNRobert]

Some have said that Matt 2:23 is an allusion to Isaiah 11:1-
"But a shoot shall sprout from the stump of Jesse, and from his roots a bud shall blossom. The Hebrew for bud is neser, and some scholars believe that this is what Matthew is referring to.
Also, in the Old Testament, there were people known as nazarites (like Samson) who were concecrated to God.

 

[Reformed1]

So you missed the point. The OP said, “For it was written by the prophets……”

Not, "now that I’ve written it, I can say it was written by the prophets.…"

But it is now in the scriptures is it not? If it is, it is no longer tradition.

I don’t see how this helps the RCC because unlike many of the traditions you claim are apostolic in origin, this “tradition” is laid out explicitly in scripture.

 

[Mannyfit75]

But it is now in the scriptures is it not? If it is, it is no longer tradition.

I don’t see how this helps the RCC because unlike many of the traditions you claim are apostolic in origin, this “tradition” is laid out explicitly in scripture.

The OP ask it is written, “For it was written by the prophets…”

Where exactly is it written? The the question remains, which prophets wrote it, "He shall be called a Nazoreans."

This is not a Catholic issue. It’s Christian issue… Suppose some Jew who does not believe challenge you with this verse? He will say, Our Torah does not mention any prophet concerning, “He shall be called a Nazorean.”

How do we as Christians, refute this?

 

[Reformed1]

The OP ask it is written, “For it was written by the prophets…”

Where exactly is it written? The the question remains, which prophets wrote it, "He shall be called a Nazoreans."

This is not a Catholic issue. It’s Christian issue… Suppose some Jew who does not believe challenge you with this verse? He will say, Our Torah does not mention any prophet concerning, “He shall be called a Nazorean.”

How do we as Christians, refute this?

Manny,

I’m just not seeing the issue here. I’ll think about it for a little bit and get back to you.

 

[jimmy]

But it is now in the scriptures is it not? If it is, it is no longer tradition.

I don’t see how this helps the RCC because unlike many of the traditions you claim are apostolic in origin, this “tradition” is laid out explicitly in scripture.

The point that the OP was trying to make was that the authors of scripture did not believe in sola scriptura. If they did not preach it, how can you preach it?

 

[elvisman]

The point that the OP was trying to make was that the authors of scripture did not believe in sola scriptura. If they did not preach it, how can you preach it?

**BINGO!! **

 

[sandusky]

HailMary:

In other words, if you hold to the notion of SOLA SCRIPTURA, then, as a 21st century Christian, should reject this prophecy since there is no evidence, in the bible, that any prophet of God ever spoke such a thing.

Else, you are lying to yourself and do not really practice Sola Scriptura: making yourself out to be a mini-pope.

You mistakenly assume that Sola Scriptura states that ALL THINGS said or done by the prophets and Christ are written in Scripture; it does not state that, as it is written:John 20:30
Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.Sola Scriptura states that scripture is the sole rule of faith and morals, and that scripture is sufficient with respect to faith, morals, knowledge of God, understanding of salvation, etc.

Purchase a copy of the book Sola Scriptura, and then read it; perhaps then you will understand the doctrine, and then, you can stop misrepresenting it.

 

[NotWorthy]

You mistakenly assume that Sola Scriptura states that ALL THINGS said or done by the prophets and Christ are written in Scripture; it does not state that, as it is written:John 20:30
Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.

I think Sandusky has a point here. If, say, Isaiah wrote this, it doesn’t mean that it has to be included in his book (of Isaiah). So you could say it was written by Isaiah without finding it in Scriptures.

Of course, I’ll let him handle the rest of what he says on his own.

 

[JoeyWarren]

You mistakenly assume that Sola Scriptura states that ALL THINGS said or done by the prophets and Christ are written in Scripture; it does not state that, as it is written:John 20:30
Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.Sola Scriptura states that scripture is the sole rule of faith and morals, and that scripture is sufficient with respect to faith, morals, knowledge of God, understanding of salvation, etc.

Purchase a copy of the book Sola Scriptura, and then read it; perhaps then you will understand the doctrine, and then, you can stop misrepresenting it.

Neither can Sola Scriptura be proven from scripture either. It’s self-refuting.

 

[HailMary]

You mistakenly assume that Sola Scriptura states that ALL THINGS said or done by the prophets and Christ are written in Scripture; it does not state that, as it is written:John 20:30
Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.Sola Scriptura states that scripture is the sole rule of faith and morals, and that scripture is sufficient with respect to faith, morals, knowledge of God, understanding of salvation, etc.

Purchase a copy of the book Sola Scriptura, and then read it; perhaps then you will understand the doctrine, and then, you can stop misrepresenting it.

see Post #9

 

[BrianH]

Hello my separated Christian

Well Howdy to you too

I come with a point of meditation for you that has to do with tradition. As you may know, we Catholics have Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Here is an example of a Sacred Tradition, most everyone looks over.

 

[HailMary]

Well Howdy to you too

 

[ProdigalSonOfOz]

You mistakenly assume that Sola Scriptura states that ALL THINGS said or done by the prophets and Christ are written in Scripture; it does not state that, as it is written:John 20:30
Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.Sola Scriptura states that scripture is the sole rule of faith and morals, and that scripture is sufficient with respect to faith, morals, knowledge of God, understanding of salvation, etc.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

It says EVERY word that proceedeth from the mouth of God, not only those words that happened to be recorded in scripture.

 

[BrianH]

Ok, so Catholics do not believe that Jewish tradition is infallible.

HailMary

But what I am saying is that if the sacred CHRISTIAN writer of the Gospel according to Matthew believed in this prophecy, then you better believe it was a Sacred Tradition passed down the ages.

He went and dwelt in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets[might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazorean

The prophets in this verse are saying this PRIOR(MIGHT BE FULFILLED) to him living in Nazareth. Prior to Jesus living in Nazareth, the only prophets are Jewish. This is a Jewish tradition. There is no Christianity prior to Jesus living in Nazareth.

[/QUOTE]

 

[NotWorthy]

Ok, so Catholics do not

believe that Jewish tradition is infallible.

The prophets in this verse are saying this PRIOR(MIGHT BE FULFILLED) to him living in Nazareth. Prior to Jesus living in Nazareth, the only prophets are Jewish. This is a Jewish tradition. There is no Christianity prior to Jesus living in Nazareth.Brian, she meant the “Christian writer of Matthew’s Gospel”.