**I exhalt in your faith of Jesus truly present, and then I am saddened because it is suggested we believe Jesus is present in the Eucharist by different means. I dont judge anyones belief on the true presence, I am just disclosing my beliefs in the true presence.
What I can mention here is I believe as the apostles did, and the early church fathers from antiquity in the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. My understanding of transubstantiation allows me in faith to accept Jesus teachings to eat his body and drink his blood, and grow in knowledge of Jesus, That takes me into the mystical body of Jesus Chrirst the Paul is talking about in 1Corinthians above.
Jon God bless you, and may the peace of our Lord Jesus be with you.**
Gabriel,
I share your exaltation, and your sadness in these matters. And I pray the Holy Spirit work in the hearts of our leaders to bring us closer together.
Jon
He who eats and drinks without recognizing the BODY eats and drinks a judgement on himself
- Status
L
Lilyflower
Guest
AMEN
We are already sisters and brothers. ‘Pray for it and Leave the rest to the Holy Spirit’. Jude: 20.
Blessings and peace.
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Amen.
J
James1982
Guest
There are Lutherans who use this quote to validate their view of the Lord’s Supper- not transubstantiation.
Since he is eating bread and drinking the cup, they interpret that as literally… eating bread and drinking wine. But it’s also the body and blood, we know this because we are told it is in other places.
Hence, something similar to consubstantiation (though it is important to remember that consubstantiation is not a Lutheran belief- the elements remain what they are, but the Real Presence is there. Consubstantiation is where both the host elements and the body and blood are both physically present).
I’m not trying to undermine your point, but there are other ways people spin it.
Edit: JonNC got there first, and as usual, says it in a better fashion than I could. Listen to him instead of me. I should learn to read entire threads before inserting myself into a discussion, and not just the OP.
Edit #2:
It occurs to me in the course of this discussion that Western Christendom seems to be more preoccupied with “how” than it seems Eastern Christendom does. The Eastern Orthodox concept of metousiosis seems to be one of the more practical positions. Perhaps it’s a Western preoccupation with explaining the world around us…
The signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and Blood of Christ. Seems like the easiest way to just come out and say it.
E
elt1956
Guest
Hello Jon and Gabriel. Since I am a bit behind in following your posts, I hope what I say will be clear to both of you. I have been reading a book called The Mass of the Early Christians and from what I glean from my readings is that the Apostles truly believed the bread and wine was the body and blood of Christ. Now whether this was an early belief in Transubstantiation, or not, I have no way of knowing. Later interpretation of these beliefs by the Catholic Church states the bread and wine actually becomes the body and blood of Christ. Transubstantation. It is one of the core doctrines of the Catholic Church. Hope this helps. God Bless.
D
Dragoro
Guest
Ya know what’s amazing is that the more I read non catholics beliefs on the Eucharist, the happier I am that I’m a catholic and know the truth.
po18guy
Well-known member
There would be unity if they could only experience the peace and tranquility found in His presence, and the spiritual nourishment that is His Flesh and Blood. But, how do you describe it to others? The Holy Spirit knows best, so I must leave it up to Him.
Christ’s peace.
L
Lilyflower
Guest
Love your signature.
Happy we could be of service.
Seriously, I wish all of God’s blessings in the Eucharist. It is a wonderful gift.
Jon
F
fbl9
Guest
in the local non-denom they or at least some of them beleive in “the real presence” not sure how it is meant though i know what this one person has expressed to me about being in the Church (Catholic) and it only strentghed my belief that yes our God is truly present though only my eyes see bread.Although this belief may have changes since they have changed pastors lately.
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
**Yes just come out and say it, the way Jesus said it, this is my body, this is my blood. The Roman Catholic church does not believe in signs or hope that it is Jesus in the Eucharist, we know and believe it is Jesus in the Eucharist, body,blood, soul and divinity. Their is no room for error in transubstantiation, because the bread and wine truly are the body and blood of Jesus present. It is from here, where we enter into the mysteries of the mystical body of Jesus. We are not standing as if waiting or wondering, We know, and believe, that the bread is the body of Jesus christ. and the cup of blessing we share is the blood of Jesus, We have discerned his body and blood, and proclaim his death until he comes again.
Peace be with you**
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
The Eucharist is the summit of our Catholic faith, this doctrine is easily found in the New testament, and the first century and beyond apostles, bishops, Popes, Saints, and Martyrs, unchanged in the Roman Catholic church today. Although transubstantiation the word was not taught in the early church fathers but the definition is evident in the early church fathers. And yes this helps when you have the disciples of the apostles on your side believing as Roman Catholic believe as they did since the apostles of Jesus. Not to mentioned many went to their death believing in the Eucharist. I dont want to give away the contents of the book, if you have not finished reading it.Hello Jon and Gabriel. Since I am a bit behind in following your posts, I hope what I say will be clear to both of you. I have been reading a book called The Mass of the Early Christians
( if it is written by Mike Aquilina I have read both volumes 1 and 2)
and from what I glean from my readings is that the Apostles truly believed the bread and wine was the body and blood of Christ. Now whether this was an early belief in Transubstantiation, or not, I have no way of knowing.
** It is true, from the early church father’s writings and teachings on the Mass and the Eucharist, Transubstantiation is never mentioned, although the faith is very present in their writings and teachings, especially when they are addressing heretics for their misunderstanding of the true presence, and the heretics rejection of the true presence.**
Later interpretation of these beliefs by the Catholic Church states the bread and wine actually becomes the body and blood of Christ. Transubstantation. It is one of the core doctrines of the Catholic Church. Hope this helps. God Bless.
Peace be with you:thumbsup:
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
I have grown to like CAF, their is a difference between believing and knowing. For what one knows is able to grow more in faith, as Jesus states, more is given, and more is expected of the believer.
Peace be with you
E
elt1956
Guest
Hello. I haven’t finished reading it. I didn’t know there are two volumes. I will have to look that up. There are some, bless their hearts and more power to them, who say that whatever the church says is enough for them. The problem is, I have found I misunderstood many aspects about my Church until I started reading about it, especially the early history. The more I read, the more I believe.
Peace.- Status