He who endures to the end will be saved!

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Rocket_Man said:
Paul in many prior chapters emphasized to the Hebrews the better covenant laid by Christ Jesus, the Heavenly High Priest. He than warns them as a result of Christ’s work on the heavenly altar, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin under the old covenant priesthood. If the Jew, after been enlightened to the new and better covenant laid by Christ, sinned wilfully, meaning returned to the old covenant system of animal sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, then there only remained for him in the old system the sacrifice for sins that did not justify. He had trampled on the blood of Christ by turning from the santification it provides to all mankind, called Christ’s sacrifice unworthy to take way sin, and his only hope is a certain fiery judgement.
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Hebrews chapter nine even uses the term copies and copy beginning in verse 23, where Paul say “Therefore”. The therefore is there because it refers back to everything from verse 1.
 
Justy90 said:
why do you keep trying to paint Protestants as stupid here? Could you be cordial at all?
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A little defensive, wouldn’t you say?
**I wasn’t implying that Protestants are stupid. I was making the point that some confuse redemption with salvation. **If my words hit too close to home with you, maybe you should study up on the historic Christian faith.

**Next time - please try to post something relevant to the conversation instead of your usual ad hominems . . .
 
Timothy_Piper said:
I see where you are leading, but the sacrifice was done in our perspective or time box; just as salvation from justification to glorification is a time process. Jesus work on the cross was completed from Gods perspective before the first person ever was created.

Why would my perspective on the Mass mean a thing? You are unable to discern the basics of the gospel and salvation as you have proven on several posts as RocketMan and I have tried to help you. If you understood the “once for all” & “it is finished” and the clear explanation that Paul gives concerning the bread and cup, followed by the Acts and what the church actually did (break bread), then the question of a Mass would be a mute point in my opinion.

1 Corinthians 11:23-34
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way {He took} the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink {it,} in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. - Pretty simple and straight foreword explanation and Paul gives more insight to what actually took place at the Last Supper and we can see by Acts, this is how the church perceived it.

Before you can get to the Mass, one must start with proof of a priesthood as your church has established, then proof that priesthood established has the authority and power to command Jesus against His own words where He Himself said He would stay until all his enemies were made a footstool and lives to make intercession for the saints. Then you need to show the authority of the magesterium before you could get to the Mass.

I am not going to tell you not celebrate your Mass; that is central to your religion, but do not expect me to accept anything outside of what I believe God has said in His Word. We can discuss and debate our points of view and hopefully at the end of each day; we learn something new and positive from each other.

God bless you!

Timothy
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My question to you about the sacrifice of the mass was to make a point about the timelessness of Jesus’ sacrifice because we are accused by Protestants for "re-sacrificing" Jesus at the mass. If you can’t answer the question - just say so. 🤷

Your post was nothing more than a long dance around the issues I addressed.

Please go back to the post and addresss the points I made to rebut your earlier arguments. We were talking about how a Christian - a true believer can fall back into sin and be lost. I have provided you with ample Scriptural evidence to back this up and you have offered nothing more than convoluted opinions.
 
elvisman said:
wasn’t implying that Protestants are stupid. I was making the point that some confuse redemption with salvation.
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Since you are knowlegable of the differences, why don’t you educate us rather than making the claim.
 
elvisman said:
** I have provided you with ample** Scriptural evidence to back this up and you have offered nothing more than convoluted opinions.
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elvis, we put everyone of your opinions back into the context of hearing the authors intent.
 
Rocket_Man said:
elvis, we put everyone of your opinions back into the context of hearing the authors intent.
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WE?
Who is “We”?
I address individuals - not groups. Besides, all I’ve read so far are opinions about the author’s intent and nothing more.
 
Rocket_Man said:
Since you are knowlegable of the differences, why don’t you educate us rather than making the claim.
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Rocket,the difference being, and I think you are aware of it, is that Jesus paid the price for the redemption of all men, however, as individuals we must accept that redemption to be saved. Not all accept.:(Carlan
 
Rocket_Man said:
Since you are knowlegable of the differences, why don’t you educate us rather than making the claim.
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Redemption is what Jesus did on the cross.
He PAID for us with his sacrifice.

Salvation is a process by which we are sanctified, only because of what Jesus did for us. We’re not saved until we have finished the race. I have provided ample Scriptural evidence for this - ad nauseam.

Whereas Redemption is a one-time slam-dunk, Salvation is not. It is a process as the Scriptures tell us in no uncertain terms.

Hope that helps.
 
elvisman said:
Redemption is what Jesus did on the cross.
He PAID for us with his sacrifice.

Salvation is a process by which we are sanctified, only because of what Jesus did for us. We’re not saved until we have finished the race. I have provided ample Scriptural evidence for this - ad nauseam.

Whereas Redemption is a one-time slam-dunk, Salvation is not. It is a process as the Scriptures tell us in no uncertain terms.

Hope that helps.
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Thank you Elvis, for being more exact. Can’t imagine any one missing that excellent explanation 🤷:thumbsup:Carlan
 
Carlan said:
Thank you Elvis, for being more exact. Can’t imagine any one missing that excellent explanation 🤷:thumbsup:Carlan
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We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
Rocket_Man said:
We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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Huh?
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my statement on redemption and salvation?
 
elvisman said:
Huh?
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my statement on redemption and salvation?
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Redemption imputes the righteousness of Christ to the believer. In a legal sense where once I was guilty and under God’s wrath, I have now been declared righteous through the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Nothing in me has changed just my standing before the Almighty Judge. So in this understanding, it is a one time event.

Now, that I have been imputed with Christ’s righteousness, and been have sprinkled by Him through the water and blood that poured from His body, I have recieved a new heart and His Spirit, and as His adopted child, I am being continually sanctified.

This is a new and better covenant then the one given to Moses. The old one never could take away sin, nor could it keep Israel from looking back into bondage. The new covenant has gone internal into the heart of man. The pillar of fire is burning within to lead us to the promise land. It’s a fire that can be diminished through the hardness of sin, but it’s a fire that can never be extinguished.

So as in the words of the Apostles, quit looking back and run with your salvation.
**
We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved**
 
Rocket_Man said:
Redemption imputes the righteousness of Christ to the believer. In a legal sense where once I was guilty and under God’s wrath, I have now been declared righteous through the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Nothing in me has changed just my standing before the Almighty Judge. So in this understanding, it is a one time event.

Now, that I have been imputed with Christ’s righteousness, and been have sprinkled by Him through the water and blood that poured from His body, I have recieved a new heart and His Spirit, and as His adopted child, I am being continually sanctified.

This is a new and better covenant then the one given to Moses. The old one never could take away sin, nor could it keep Israel from looking back into bondage. The new covenant has gone internal into the heart of man. The pillar of fire is burning within to lead us to the promise land. It’s a fire that can be diminished through the hardness of sin, but it’s a fire that can never be extinguished.

So as in the words of the Apostles, quit looking back and run with your salvation.

We are saved, we are being saved, we will be saved
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You’re right - for the most part.**

**Your view of Redmption, if I’m correct - is just what I said. We have been purchased by the work of Jesus on the cross. This does NOT mean that we are saved. That is something that we have to cooperate with. We can reject salvation because we can reject God’s grace. This is clearly evident from the Parable of the Wedding Feast (Matthew 22:1-14).
**
**As for being unable to extinguish the fire - you’re wrong, according to the Scriptures (******Matt. 7:21, **Romans 11:22, ****Hebrews 10:26-27, ****2 Peter 2:20-21, ****1 Cor. 9:27, **Cor. 4:4). We choose to either accept God’s free gift of salvation or reject it. The scriptures I have furnished speak about those who believe and turn away.
 
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