He who endures to the end will be saved!

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graceandglory said:
Final perseverence is one of the main things we pray about when meditating on the rosary. This is something I teach almost on a daily basis to my third graders. It is biblical. Therefore, it is Catholic.
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In reagards to Final perseverence, what is it you are praying for?

Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
 
SavedByGod said:
Ok, good point, I apologize for my frustration. 🙂 The fact is, though, the answers to your questions are readily available, and too many people assume that they know what the Catholic Church teaches, without reading primary Catholic sources. It seemed that you were coming here, assuming that you know what Catholicism teaches, without reading what the Catholic Church itself says.
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I have participated in nemerous threads with Rocketman and your analysis of him is dead on.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
I certainly do not think nor do I think my post says or implies that works are not important. Here is your post again:

You seem to think here that your salvation hinges on whether or not you go into a box and tell your sins to another sinner. You say nothing here about faith or Jesus or His sacrifice. So, you can understand my concern. I certainly do not want to downplay the importance of works. They are important, but the only works that matter are a** result **of our acceptance of Christ and what He did for us. Any works done outside of that acceptance is utterly useless and will not get us into heaven. I guess my point is that a person could go into the confessional with the best of intentions and that person could recieve absolution and think they are sin free, but without that acceptance of what Jesus did for us, they are still in thier sins. This is the major concern I have with what the CC teaches. they seem to have usurped the power that rightly and only belong to Almighty God and as a result many or most or maybe all Catholics think that they can get to heaven because of thier misplaced faith in a church rather than in God.
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This is a clear misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church teaches. Can you please explain the “major concern on what the Catholic Church teaches”? The Church teaches many things, what exactly is it that you are concerned with?
 
Rocket_Man said:
How do you know if your picking up the cross all the way? If you go home at night to eat dinner instead of helping at the soup kitchen to feed the poor. Would this act be enduring to the end?
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We must trust the grace, mercy, and justice of God for our salvation.

We cannot be presumptious, however.

God’s grace will enable us to follow his will IF we are willing to cooperate with this grace.
 
izoid said:
This is a clear misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church teaches. Can you please explain the “major concern on what the Catholic Church teaches”? The Church teaches many things, what exactly is it that you are concerned with?
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I think my post is quite clear. If you don’t understand read it again. I don’t see any reason to restate my post.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
I think my post is quite clear. If you don’t understand read it again. I don’t see any reason to restate my post.
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Your post is a clear. You don’t understand Catholic teaching.

FYI:

II. GRACE

1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

1998 This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God’s gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.47

2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. God brings to completion in us what he has begun, "since he who completes his work by cooperating with our will began by working so that we might will it:"50

Indeed we also work, but we are only collaborating with God who works, for his mercy has gone before us. It has gone before us so that we may be healed, and follows us so that once healed, we may be given life; it goes before us so that we may be called, and follows us so that we may be glorified; it goes before us so that we may live devoutly, and follows us so that we may always live with God: for without him we can do nothing.51

2002 God’s free initiative demands man’s free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy.
 
Rocket_Man said:
LOL, that’s exactly the kind of caring instruction I had as a youngster.
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Your catechism instructors were responsible for teaching you well, you and your parents were resposible for your learning it faithfuly and lovingly.Carlan
 
Richard_Kastner said:
I think my post is quite clear. If you don’t understand read it again. I don’t see any reason to restate my post.
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This response reminds me of Voltare, if they want to talk to me they must speak my language. 🤷

Unfortunately, communication is the responsibility of the speaker, he or she must ensure that their audience understands them. It is not enough to understand yourself. :eek:

If you are implying that the Catholic Church teaches that confession, the sacrament, saves you then you are wrong. If you are implying that the Catholic Church teaches that faith in the Church saves you, you are wrong.

You see, you made broad sweeping suggestions that are all based on a lack of knowledge. I was asking that you clarify what you were actually saying. It seems that those broad sweeping allegations were exactly what you meant to say? It sounds to me like you believe the Catholic Church is a false teacher? 🤷
 
elvisman said:
Salvation IS a gift - but it CAN be rejected. We cannot be saved when we are in the state of deadly sin (1 John 5:16), which MUST be confessed.
And guess what? True believers CAN fall:

Romans 11:22****
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”
Hebrews 10:26-27****
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
2 Peter 2:20-22****
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
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**Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.**

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

**But he that received seed into the good ground **is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.

And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:

**And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. **And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

**And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, **

And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.

And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?

**There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.**
 
Rocket_Man said:
**Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. **

**Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. **

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

**But he that received seed into the good ground **is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.

And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:

**And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. **And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

**And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, **

**And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. **

And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?

**There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. **

And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
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What’s your point?
Would you care to comment or answer my post with something other than random Scripture passages?
 
elvisman said:
Salvation IS a gift - but it CAN be rejected. We cannot be saved when we are in the state of deadly sin (1 John 5:16), which MUST be confessed.
And guess what? True believers CAN fall:
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Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[a] faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself,[e] and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

Is the author speaking of physical death or spiritual death?
 
Rocket_Man said:
We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself,[e] and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
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Are you telling us that you do not sin?
 
Rocket_Man said:
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[a] faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself,[e] and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
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I’m not sure I understand the point you are trying to make.

Are you saying that you don’t sin, or are you saying that none of us are born of God?
 
izoid said:
Are you telling us that you do not sin?
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If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

We are not under the sway! We are not bent towards sin!

It’s incompatible with the work of Christ in the heart of a believer!
 
Rocket_Man said:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

We are not under the sway!
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That may or may not be true. However, whatever your current state, you must be sure not to give the devil a foothold. You must endure. You must strive for holiness.

God will not abandon us, but we can abandon him by letting sin take hold of out lives and displace the spirit of God.

Eph 5
15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

Eph 6
12For **our struggle **is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time** we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. **10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
That may or may not be true. However, whatever your current state, you must be sure not to give the devil a foothold. You must endure. You must strive for holiness.

God will not abandon us, but we can abandon him by letting sin take hold of out lives and displace the spirit of God.

Eph 5
15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

Eph 6
12For **our struggle **is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time** we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. **10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
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“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”

"But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

“So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.”
 
Rocket_Man said:
“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”

"But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

“So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.”
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You keep avoiding crystal clear scriptures by posting irrelevant evasions.

The bible is very clear about what is expected of us. Why deny it?
 
Abide in Christ by abiding in His Church who is his mystical body here on this side of Heaven.
 
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