He who endures to the end will be saved!

[SHW]

I gave up my will and cooperated completely with Him when I came to the foot of His alter and cried out. “Lord, have mercy on me a Sinner !” And it wasn’t just words coming from my lips but words spoken from the inner depth’s of my being.

That is a wonderful testimony. Jesus meets us where we are.

And because I did, I’ve entered into God’s rest. Because everything I never had before He has given me, including the will to endure until the end.

However, He expects us to progress from there into the persons that He desired and designed us to be.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

This is a command, not a suggestion, if we desire to inherit eternal life.

We must die to selfish desires daily in order to actually inherit eternal life.

Luke 9:23
Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

1 John 3:3
And everyone who has this hope in Him (hope of inheriting eternal life) purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

Matthew 10:38
And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

 

[Rocket_Man]

False prophets and false teachers are also persons who teach a different gospel than His one gospel. They are heretics. Heretics are accursed. Galatians 1:9 Heretics actually believe that they are correct in their own interpretations of Scripture and in their own teachings.

Christ Jesus Came Into the World to Save Sinners.

And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink. When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord. For he was astonished, and all that were with him, at the draught of the fishes which they had taken: taken:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

**And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. **

 

[Rocket_Man]

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

Looking backwards in context to these ealier words where he wrote:

For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

And those words are looking back into ealier words where he wrote:

If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

Again, Paul knows that he is running a race like an athelete, the race he is running is preaching the Gospel and harvesting souls for Christ. The prize is an incorruptible crown in heaven similair to the Jesus’s challenge to “lay up your treasures in heaven”. Knowing that he was called to preach the gospel and the rewards from it are in heaven, he becomes a servant to all men, beats his body into subjection, put’s himself under all men, like when Jesus washed the feet of the disciples, so that the gospel isn’t hindered and he’s then not disqualified to win the prize. It is not about loosing one’s salvation, rather it’s about running the race!

 

[Rocket_Man]

However, He expects us to progress from there into the persons that He desired and designed us to be.

One thing I know for sure is if the righteous son was in charge over his Fathers house there never would have been a feast when the Father came home his lost brother.

Do you ever wonder if some Catholics read scripture through the stained lenses of the righteous son?

 

[graceandglory]

I was baptized and confirmed in the CC. My sealing didn’t occur until I was 29 years old and repented of my sinful life, asked Christ to save me from the wrath I deserved.

So you are on record as being sealed with the Holy Spirit. That’s great! The sacraments come with grace. You may not know it now, but you received graces at your baptism and your Confirmation that led you to your adult conversion. ***God’s gifts and His calling is irrevocable. *** Romans 11:29. It will all make sense when you come full circle.

 

[Rocket_Man]

This is why it is so important to be able to discern which Church is the true Church of Christ. Jesus promises to be with/guide His one Church the one with Peter’s successor who alone holds the keys to the kingdom of heaven until the end of the age (until He returns at His Second Coming). He promised His one Church that it would be prevented from teaching error (the gates of Hades will never prevail against it).

“Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.”

 

[Rocket_Man]

So you are on record as being sealed with the Holy Spirit. That’s great! The sacraments come with grace. You may not know it now, but you received graces at your baptism and your Confirmation that led you to your adult conversion. ***God’s gifts and His calling is irrevocable. *** Romans 11:29. It will all make sense when you come full circle.

I’ve had this challenge before and I’m sorry that I can’t agree with you. I have experienced regeneration and know what it is like. It occured after I repented of my sins, and confessed my need for Jesus Christ.

There was not the recieving of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit at Confirmation. I now boldly confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, but not before my conversion. Jesus Christ was just a religion as green is just a color.

 

[guanophore]

Mat 13:3 And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow.
Mat 13:4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them.
Mat 13:5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,
Mat 13:6 but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.
Mat 13:8 Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Mat 13:18 “Hear then the parable of the sower:
Mat 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.
Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,
Mat 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

guan, they did not have the good heart (good soil) because they hadn’t repented and turned to Christ and Him alone for their redemption. If they had, He would prepared a good soil (new heart) to recieve the seed.

I agree that they did not have good soil, however, the reason you give for this is inconsistent with the soteriology you have stated here at CAF. No one is able to prepare their own soil. No one is able to repent or turn to God at all of their own ability. It is only by His grace that we are able to receive the words of eternal life at all.

The seeds were received, sprouted, and began to grow. It is not possible for the gospel to do this in the human heart without grace.

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone”.

I think this verse you posted confirms the point I am trying to make. A person cannot make himself “good soil” by repentance. It is only the working of the HS in the heart that can prepare a person to receive the Word.

"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

The Aposltes taught that this passage is a reference to the cleansing power of baptism, and the instilling of the HS into the heart of a person who is washed free of sin.

 

[guanophore]

Do you know what it means to be sealed?

"Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king’s name, and seal it with the king’s ring: for the writing which is written in the king’s name, and sealed with the king’s ring, may no man reverse."

Right On Rocket!

Indeed the Apostles taught that baptism leaves an indelible mark. That is why, if a Christian falls away from the faith, their last state is WORSE than the first. They have been sealed, so the denial of the Lord is more serious than it would have been had they never known the Truth.

Could you find for me somwhere in scripture where the Holy Spirit moves in and out of the believer as a result of unrepented sin?

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Our relationships with one another are reflections of our relationship with God. The level of intimacy we can share with Him depends upon the level we abide in the Truth. If we move away from Him through sin, then we are no longer “in Christ”. We cannot abide in Him living a life of sin. We are cut off, withered, and thrown into the fire to be burned (destroyed).

 

[guanophore]

If your correct, Why does John write that he’s not saying that we should pray for one that has committed mortal sin (sin that leads to spiritual death) but only venial sins? Make sense of that for me. Why wouldn’t we pray for both sin types so the person could repent and receive back the Holy Spirit and be back in good standings with God as you say?

John, as did all the Apostles, taught that mortal sins required absolution in the sacrament of reconciliation. Sins that are not mortal can be healed with prayer. Mortal sins need a deeper and more comprehensive form of healing, as they separate us from our connection with the Vine.

We can certainly pray that a person in sin will repent, no matter what the kind of sin, but a person who has quenched the life of the Spirit in himself needs to be reconciled to God and the Church. Such a person has separated himself from Christ by his actions.

Although one baptism will unite us to Him, a person separated by mortal sin needs the ministry of reconciliation to bring them back to the state they were placed in at the time of baptism.

Good question Rocket.

 

[guanophore]

Wow, that’s interesting. In all of this I do not any one time read the HS moving in and out of the individual as a result of sin.

SHW has provided an excellent series of posts for us Rocket. It may be that you cannot see what we see because of your anti-Catholic blinders. We all read scripture according to our filters. Catholics read it through the lenses of the Apostolic Teaching handed down through the Church in Sacred Tradition. You read it through the lenses of tradition that has been separated from the Apostolic Succession for 500 years. Every generation has been drifting a bit further from the One Faith, and today, the readers of scripture expect to distill and extract the One Faith from the pages of Scripture.

Such approaches are opposite of that lauded in the Bereans, who accepted the Apostolic message with eagerness, then turned to the Scriptures in the light of that message.

I am curious to see how you can explain away all the passages posted here by SHW.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Mat 13:3 And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow.
Mat 13:4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them.
Mat 13:5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,
Mat 13:6 but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.
Mat 13:8 Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Mat 13:18 “Hear then the parable of the sower:
Mat 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.
Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,
Mat 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

I agree that they did not have good soil, however, the reason you give for this is inconsistent with the soteriology you have stated here at CAF. No one is able to prepare their own soil. No one is able to repent or turn to God at all of their own ability. It is only by His grace that we are able to receive the words of eternal life at all.

I am not sure if your last three sentences are yours or mine. But I agree with them 100%, even though I do not fully understand. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin. All those that heard were given the common graces to understand the word and be cleansed but only one of them was sealed with the Spirit of Promise. Just as only one of the ten lepers

And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. **And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. ** And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Right On Rocket!

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

There is no doubt that I was not in Christ before conversion. And there is no doubt that after conversion, in all that He commands, He also supplies the desire to abide. When I sin, he remains faithful and convicts me and returns me to the fold. Why do I return? Because He has revealed to me that He is truely my dearest Father through His great love and inwardly I love Him with all that I am for what He has done for me. I deserved death and He gave me life.

“A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.” Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.” Tell me, teacher,” he said. “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?” Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.” “You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.” Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”"

 

[Rocket_Man]

SHW has provided an excellent series of posts for us Rocket. It may be that you cannot see what we see because of your anti-Catholic blinders. We all read scripture according to our filters. Catholics read it through the lenses of the Apostolic Teaching handed down through the Church in Sacred Tradition. You read it through the lenses of tradition that has been separated from the Apostolic Succession for 500 years. Every generation has been drifting a bit further from the One Faith, and today, the readers of scripture expect to distill and extract the One Faith from the pages of Scripture.

Such approaches are opposite of that lauded in the Bereans, who accepted the Apostolic message with eagerness, then turned to the Scriptures in the light of that message.

I am curious to see how you can explain away all the passages posted here by SHW.

And there is a reason quan, that God has allowed it be separated. Because the Church has abandoned the prodical son. Why do you think so many sinners are coming to Christ outside the Church?

 

[Rocket_Man]

Although one baptism will unite us to Him, a person separated by mortal sin needs the ministry of reconciliation to bring them back to the state they were placed in at the time of baptism.

And how is this to happen, if the Spirit has indeed left him? Isn’t he then left to his own power to find repentence?

 

[SHW]

Christ Jesus Came Into the World to Save Sinners.

And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink. When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord. For he was astonished, and all that were with him, at the draught of the fishes which they had taken: taken:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Sinners are not always heretics, but heretics are always sinners.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as** there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies**, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

 

[SHW]

And how is this to happen, if the Spirit has indeed left him? Isn’t he then left to his own power to find repentence?

God always provides enough grace to the person to repent if he chooses to repent. It is not sanctifying grace though, because only the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within a person’s soul provides sanctifying grace, and it is sanctifying grace that is necessary for a person to inherit eternal life. The person will receive sanctifying grace again after he repents.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Hyperbole (exaggeration):
1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

Not hyperbole:
James 5:19-20
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

More hyperbole:
Matthew 23:9
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

 

[Rocket_Man]

God always provides enough grace to the person to repent if he chooses to repent. It is not sanctifying grace though, because only the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within a person’s soul provides sanctifying grace, and it is sanctifying grace that is necessary for a person to inherit eternal life. The person will receive sanctifying grace again after he repents.

And I say the Holy Spirit stays in the temple, because It has been sanctified by Jesus Christ. There is nothing biblical anywhere that the Holy Spirit moves out of the person as a result of mortal sin. Even David, in the midst of his sin, desired not to be cast away from God’s presence and feared that the Holy Spirit might be taken from Him. And do we not have a better covenant than he? Haven’t we been sealed with the King’s ring?

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Matthew 23:9
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

This is not hyperbole. This is a commandment. Didn’t Peter say, “stand up” or did he say he was the vicar of Christ?

As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, "I am only a man myself."

And didn’t Mary say: “My soul doth magnify the Lord”