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Carlan
Guest
you are missing it Rocket, look again at what Guan said also,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket_Man
Could you find for me somwhere in scripture where the Holy Spirit moves in and out of the believer as a result of unrepented sin?
Guan’s Quote:
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Our relationships with one another are reflections of our relationship with God. The level of intimacy we can share with Him depends upon the level we abide in the Truth. ***If we move away from Him through sin, then we are no longer “in Christ”. We cannot abide in Him living a life of sin. We are cut off, withered, and thrown into the fire to be burned (destroyed). ***__________________Carlan
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Rocket_Man
Guest
Carlan, I do understand! He doesn’t command what He doesn’t provide. Abiding is one of His gifts. So that no man can glory in His presence.
"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
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elvisman
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**That’s what I thought. No matter how much evidence is placed before you, you turn a spiritually prideful eye. **
That’s precisely what your “Reformers” did 500 years ago. This is the fruit of their rebellion . . .
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tweetymom
Guest
I do not have a prideful eye, but thanks for the blessing. The only thing here I am rebelling against is you. Like I said you probably could be a nice man if you weren’t so arogant
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elvisman
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Carlan
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And that is good Rocket, however that little word*** if***is such a biggie!
How can I say it… The Holy Spirit can not abide along side of deadly mortal sin, he leaves the filthy soul. Now if we repent by God’s actual grace drawing us back to abiding love(His sanctifying grace) the Holy Spirit returns to us and our relationship with God is restored.
And it happens that way no matter how often we fall into grave sin. Ifwith the help of God’s actual grace we repent. Lets all pray for the perseverance to abide in His loving grace till the end.
Carlan
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elvisman
Guest
**Abiding IS a gift, as is faith and hope. The thing you don’t understand is that a gift can be refused or even “returned”. You can have gifts from God that you reject later on. You seem to think that God forces his love on us like some sort of spritual rapist. That’s not the God of Christianity - that’s something that Protestants made up.
What do you make of all of the Scripture verses that have shown you that we can fall away and/or reject God’s gifts after having them? Jesus also told us,** **"So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect." **
How many perfect people do you know? They don’t exist.
You must read the Scriptures in context - not dissecting them to fit your mold. When taken in context, you have been shown that the Bible clearly illustrates the Catholic position.
Remember that the Early Church believed as the Catholic Church of today. Your ideas are 500 years old or less and not in line with historic Christian teaching.
PS - Please answer my questions instead of dancing around the issue as you have in past posts.
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elvisman
Guest
I thought you said you were done with me . . .
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tweetymom
Guest
I am trying to turn the other cheek.I thought you said you were done with me . . .
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elvisman
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It would be better if you turned a humble eye to the truth.
Tell me something - I see you’ve changed your religious affiliation a couple of times.
In earlier threads, you said you were an RCIA instructor in the Catholic Church. Was that all just a lie or is it true? Are you, in fact, a Catholic or are you a Protestant (non-Catholic)?
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Rocket_Man
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Elvis, maybe you feel this way because your baptism has been cheapened by the CC and you haven’t truely experienced regeneration in the heart? For those of us that have, such as Tweety, we know what it means to be reborn of the Spirit, for we have lived God’s grace as He has worked inside us to transform us into His likeness. Even in the darkest periods of my sin, He is there speaking to me to bring me back into captivity. He doesn’t leave me as some bastard child.
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tweetymom
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One thing I am not is a liar. I changed it because I was angry at folks like you. I am a Catholic who is a RCIA instructor, An EMCH. have taught some in our Catholic school, am Vice Pres. along with my husband in a club at Church. I do not always agree with some things the Church professes, and am not ashamed to admit when I make a mistake about something or someone. My Priest and Bishop know me and know all about me. My life is not a secret. Also am in charge along with my husband for caring for the needs of some elders in our Church and community. I am a believer in Jesus have been Saved Been Baptised, etc etc. Attended BSF and taught there for 8 years. Anything else you would like to know? God Bless
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Rocket_Man
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Tell me how many of the lepards below were cleansed and forgot and which one remembered?
And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
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elvisman
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**So now, you can read hearts? I thought only GOD could do that.
Be very careful about making this claim, my anti-Cathollic friend. The Scriptures are replete with the punishments of spiritual pride.
**As Jesus told Nicodemus, “Amen, amen, I say to you, one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit” (John 3:5) - I was reborn at Baptism. Just as circumcision was part of the Old Covenant, Baptism replaces circumcision in the New Covenant. **
Just as the parents/guardians would have the child circumcised as part of their Covenant with God in the OT, the parents/guardians in the New Covenant do the same.**
You must remember - NT fulfillments are ALWAYS more glorious and perfect than the OT types.
I know you find this difficult to understand because of your man-made traditions that sprang up in the last 400 years or so - but it’s ALL in the Scriptures.
PS - I see that you still refuse to answer my questions and have instead chosen to dodge them again . . .
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elvisman
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Nope - just puzzled as to why your parish would allow such an anti-Catholic to teach catechumens. It brings to mind Matt 7:15-20:
**"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. **
**By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? **
**Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. **
**A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. **
**Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. **
So by their fruits you will know them."
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Carlan
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No Rocket, you are wrong Judging us according to what you experienced, We are all sinners and we have experienced God saving love every bit as much through Christ’s death on the Cross ,Baptism through the Father , Son, and Holy Spirit,complete cleansing of original sin,Justification and the filling of our souls with sanctifying grace, so as to live the process of growing in holiness through out our life while on this earth so that we can be with him in heaven forever.
I am sorry that you accept the false doctrine of Calvinism, and that you have turned your back on the complete Truth taught by Christ’s Apostles and handed on down to us through their successors with the power of the Holy Spirit. Catholic doctrines were given to his Church by Christ himself. Your doctrine of regeneration was given in rebellion by a man 5oo years ago.
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tweetymom
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I am not anti Catholic just do not agree on everything and if you do Glory to you! I do not judge you by anything. I cannot be brainwashed. I try every Spirit. And I would take time and print all the above Scriptures for you but do not have time. I at 38 had a life changing experience with Jesus, and have followed it since and I am now 72. I love Jesus iwht all my heart and soul and always will. I do not teach anything contrary to Catholic teaching, that is not my job. I do not tell others to go against anything. Only teach them the Love of Christ.
I was raised half Catholic and other half nothing and in the course of my life made a lot of mistakes and had to find my way with the help of our Lord. He has been the best friend I have ever and still have and has led me thru a lot of pain etc in my life. I am proud of Jesus and my walk with Him. If you do then that is your problem. I do not see too much from you except judgement> But brother that is Christ’s problem not mine. So I will pray for you and not critize you I will leave that up to Jesus. Thank you for the many blessings you have bestowed upon me.
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tweetymom
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I relly do not think he was judging he said Maybe. I too have recieved Jesus saving grace exactly like Rocket, so I know that what he says is true. I never had this when I was Baptisted as a child, Oops I forgot to add with the Lord in my corner I will endure to the end, praise be to God.
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Carlan
Guest
Tweety,as a Catholic you are surely not confirming what Roc stated,
That Baptism has been cheapened by the Catholic Church and that Catholics
have not truly experienced conversion of the heart.
Carlan- Status