Head coverings and silence

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Hello. Was wondering how we reconcile what St. Paul says in 1 Cor 11:2-16, and 1 Cor 14:34-36, with how we celebrate mass in our Americanized church. My mother and grandmother always wore a veil when I was a kid. All were silent. Men still never wear hats. It seems more reverent towards God rather than degrading towards women. All should be humble before God. How did we get here?
 
Here we go again…

…Respectfully, Chris, I know you are new, but to try to head off the storm…

…The Traditional Catholic threads are located above Liturgy and Sacraments…

…If you look toward the top of your screen, you will find a link that says “SEARCH”. Type any of the words you chose to describe your query, and you will find VOLUMES of reading.

::Dducking to avoid the avalance::
 
I do agree that silence on the topic of headcoverings would greatly benefit these forums
 
I agree that reverent silence is missing in many Catholic parishes today.

How you believe that relates to headcoverings (or lack of them) on women confuses me. Bareheaded women aren’t the only ones talking in church. :cool:
 
Hi Chris. Since this is your first post… and in all probability… you didn’t know how to research the topic of head coverings on this site (I’m not sure I do, either:blush: )… I think it’s ok to ask the question again. Afterall, this is the Catholic “Answers” forum. There are constantly going to be new members, asking these questions. I’d hate to think that a newcomer might be discouraged from asking his/her questions. If more senior members are tired of responding to certain questions, then I would gently say… don’t.

My own opinion, is that I agree on the subject of silence. It seems that when we arrive for Mass… everyone in the church is noisy, chatting and laughing loudly. Children are permitted to run in and out of the pews., whooping like banshee’s etc. It is very distracting, for people who would like to prepare, in their hearts… for the coming of the Lord, during Mass.

I think that the American Catholic Church got away from the use of mantillas (head coverings) for women, shortly after Vatican II. Maybe with the return of the Tridentine Mass… the practice will be reborn. I’m a woman in my late 40’s… and I wouldn’t mind wearing a mantilla. Wearing the mantilla again might serve all of us well… as a reminder to dress modestly (especially at Mass). God bless.
 
puzzleannie said:
I do agree that silence on the topic of headcoverings would greatly benefit these forums
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And again I ask you - why do you even open these discussions when you hate them so? :rolleyes:

Chris - you may find many good conversations on this topic by using the Google style search function here and searching on the words “veil” and “mantilla”. No question is a bad question when you are trying to learn about your Faith.

~Liza
 
MarieVeronica said:
Hi Chris. Since this is your first post… and in all probability… you didn’t know how to research the topic of head coverings on this site (I’m not sure I do, either:blush: )… I think it’s ok to ask the question again. Afterall, this is the Catholic “Answers” forum. There are constantly going to be new members, asking these questions. I’d hate to think that a newcomer might be discouraged from asking his/her questions. If more senior members are tired of responding to certain questions, then I would gently say… don’t.

My own opinion, is that I agree on the subject of silence. It seems that when we arrive for Mass… everyone in the church is noisy, chatting and laughing loudly. Children are permitted to run in and out of the pews., whooping like banshee’s etc. It is very distracting, for people who would like to prepare, in their hearts… for the coming of the Lord, during Mass.

I think that the American Catholic Church got away from the use of mantillas (head coverings) for women, shortly after Vatican II. Maybe with the return of the Tridentine Mass… the practice will be reborn. I’m a woman in my late 40’s… and I wouldn’t mind wearing a mantilla. Wearing the mantilla again might serve all of us well… as a reminder to dress modestly (especially at Mass). God bless.
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In my whole life (and I am a woman in her late 40s) I have never ever arrived at church early to prepare for Mass and had folks laughing loudly, children running in and out of pews whooping like banshees (not even when I have been in Ireland).

I am concerned when such a comment is tied to the phrase the “American Catholic Church” that folks think it is the norm in most places.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
In my whole life (and I am a woman in her late 40s) I have never ever arrived at church early to prepare for Mass and had folks laughing loudly, children running in and out of pews whooping like banshees (not even when I have been in Ireland).

I am concerned when such a comment is tied to the phrase the “American Catholic Church” that folks think it is the norm in most places.
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THANK YOU! Thank you so much for saying this! I was beginning to think that I have died and live in heaven and attend a heavenly church instead of being here on earth attending “real” Catholic Churches. It was rather worrisome! Various psychotic ailments run in my family, and I was actually wondering if maybe I am hallucinating the “quiet” churches that I attend!

I’ve been Catholic for four years (in April), and I agree with you. I attend NO Masses at two parishes in my city, and I’ve visited a couple of dozen Catholic churches whenever I have travelled (several states), and I have NEVER, EVER heard this kind of mayhem in the sanctuary before or even after Mass.

I’m not denying that it happens. I just find it astonishing. I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat it: I am very blessed.

I did hear a small boy, about 3, playing with his Matchbox cars in the pew during Mass last night, but it didn’t bother me. His parents had four children, and I was blessed to see the whole family, including the little guy with the noisy cars, at Mass. He’ll grow up quick enough. And he made an attempt to be quiet during the consecration.
 
My parish is usually very quiet too before Mass. Two years ago we even go thte choir to warm up in the chapel so as not to disturb people. Now after mass it is another story. Not running around (except the church mice) but just standing around talking. We built a large new vestibule two years ago but we still have trouble getting people out of the church to chat there, even though we keep reminding them.
 
[Edited by Moderator]

I fail to see how headcoverings have anything to do with solitude before Mass, and quiet and reverence during it.
 
Let me rephrase… I should have said… the Catholic Church in the United States… Sorry.😊

P.S. Also, I’m sad to say… that the description of my parish church is true. Kids running wild all the time. Once, during Reconciliation… on a Saturday… it got so bad, that Father got UP… in the middle of someones confession… opened the door… and shouted “QQQQQQUUUUIEEEET”… at the top of his lungs. The kids run wild at this parish. They throw coins in the baptismal font, and chewing gum… it’s unbelievable.

I too, find the situation at my current parish “astonishing”… I also find it disturbing, that the parents of these kids do little or nothing to stop them.🤷

I would like to add… that the parish I’m currently attending is nothing like the one I grew up in. That parish was quiet, and beautiful. A wonderful place to meditate… etc. I certainly hope that my current parish is the exception, and not the rule. Sure makes me miss my old parish, though.
 
MarieVeronica said:
Let me rephrase… I should have said… the Catholic Church in the United States… Sorry.😊

P.S. Also, I’m sad to say… that the description of my parish church is true. Kids running wild all the time. Once, during Reconciliation… on a Saturday… it got so bad, that Father got UP… in the middle of someones confession… opened the door… and shouted “QQQQQQUUUUIEEEET”… at the top of his lungs. The kids run wild at this parish. They throw coins in the baptismal font, and chewing gum… it’s unbelievable.

I too, find the situation at my current parish “astonishing”… I also find it disturbing, that the parents of these kids do little or nothing to stop them.🤷

I would like to add… that the parish I’m currently attending is nothing like the one I grew up in. That parish was quiet, and beautiful. A wonderful place to meditate… etc. I certainly hope that my current parish is the exception, and not the rule. Sure makes me miss my old parish, though.
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Why does the pastor allow it?
 
I’m not sure what he can really do about it… aside from “correct” them when they misbehave in his presence. He’s just one man… who can be in one place, at a time. I’d like to hope that the parents… when they hear the pastor correcting their children, will pick it up from there… and start teaching their children the proper behavior in public… and especially in God’s House!

He has posted many times in the parish bulletin about these things (the fonts, etc.). I’ve read them. But aside from that… I don’t know what else he could do.

Any suggestions that I could pass along to him?
 
MarieVeronica said:
I’m not sure what he can really do about it… aside from “correct” them when they misbehave in his presence. He’s just one man… who can be in one place, at a time. I’d like to hope that the parents… when they hear the pastor correcting their children, will pick it up from there… and start teaching their children the proper behavior in public… and especially in God’s House!

He has posted many times in the parish bulletin about these things (the fonts, etc.). I’ve read them. But aside from that… I don’t know what else he could do.

Any suggestions that I could pass along to him?
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He could make a bigger fuss.
They may not be taking him too seriously.

Notes in bulletin often get missed - big honking signs may initially be called for to help change such behavior.

If - like at the confession incident - the parents are present he may want to address the offender’s set more directly as well as call for them to keep the child(ren) with them. If they don’t have an adult with them he could tell them to leave and play outside.

At mass ushers can herd the rowdies on the move back to parent’s side.

It may take being more forward but once some sense of order is achieved maintenance becomes easier.
 
You could be right about that. Maybe the Pastor does need to be more assertive with these kids/families. I like the big honkin’ signs suggestion. lol. I’ll mention it to him. Thanks.

It happens during Mass sometimes too. There are 3-4 sets of swinging, glass doors leading into the main church… and it has happened during Mass… kids running in and out of those doors. I once saw an usher start after a kid… but he (the usher) caught sight of the parents, and backed off. He should have followed through. Maybe he was afraid to do so, though.🤷
 
lizaanne said:
And again I ask you - why do you even open these discussions when you hate them so? :rolleyes:

~Liza
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With over 16,000 posts, I don’t think Annie hates them. I think she might be sick and tired of them, but hate is too strong a word.

Too often some topics similar to this one devolve into a mish-mash of opinions that seem to border on the idea that “if we just did this, or didn’t do that, reverance would…”

It is a bit like presuming that when the canary died in the mine shaft, that caused the miners to die, rahter than realizing that the canary was not the cause.

We do not lack reverance because women don’t wear mantillas or hats of scarves; nor is it the case that women don’t wear such things because reverence is gone. Reverance is an attitude, and one can have that attitude and have no mantilla, or one can lack that attitude and have a very nice, expensive mantilla. Having been in one parish that was well and widely known to be one of the wealthier parishes around, it has been my observation that head coverings appeared to be a source of pride (I am better/holier than thou), jealousy, cattiness (aka gossip and character assassination), along with a lot of other issues that caused such behavior.
 
otjm said:
With over 16,000 posts, I don’t think Annie hates them. I think she might be sick and tired of them, but hate is too strong a word.

Too often some topics similar to this one devolve into a mish-mash of opinions that seem to border on the idea that “if we just did this, or didn’t do that, reverance would…”

It is a bit like presuming that when the canary died in the mine shaft, that caused the miners to die, rahter than realizing that the canary was not the cause.

We do not lack reverance because women don’t wear mantillas or hats of scarves; nor is it the case that women don’t wear such things because reverence is gone. Reverance is an attitude, and one can have that attitude and have no mantilla, or one can lack that attitude and have a very nice, expensive mantilla. Having been in one parish that was well and widely known to be one of the wealthier parishes around, it has been my observation that head coverings appeared to be a source of pride (I am better/holier than thou), jealousy, cattiness (aka gossip and character assassination), along with a lot of other issues that caused such behavior.
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What I so wanted to say when my post was editted by the mods, and what you so brilliantly did say. 👍
 
MarieVeronica said:
You could be right about that. Maybe the Pastor does need to be more assertive with these kids/families. I like the big honkin’ signs suggestion. lol. I’ll mention it to him. Thanks.

It happens during Mass sometimes too. There are 3-4 sets of swinging, glass doors leading into the main church… and it has happened during Mass… kids running in and out of those doors. I once saw an usher start after a kid… but he (the usher) caught sight of the parents, and backed off. He should have followed through. Maybe he was afraid to do so, though.🤷
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IF the pastor does not make bolder statements about this behavior ushers etc will not have the confidence to enforce things like don’t run in/out the swinging doors etc.
 
Chris_McCurley said:
Hello. Was wondering how we reconcile what St. Paul says in 1 Cor 11:2-16, and 1 Cor 14:34-36, with how we celebrate mass in our Americanized church. My mother and grandmother always wore a veil when I was a kid. All were silent. Men still never wear hats. It seems more reverent towards God rather than degrading towards women. All should be humble before God. How did we get here?
Click to expand...
Poor Chris! Don’t be discouraged from asking questions! You just happened to open a can or worms that’s been discussed a lot. I was around in the days you describe and I agree that we have lost the silence that Pope JP II said we needed at times. I’d better not say any more or I’ll have to duck! 😃

I can’t resist one comment though, about silence and reverence. I used to teach, and today’s children could certainly use the discipline we were taught as kids in church. It is absolutely possible for a child to kneel in church with hands folded and remain silent and reverent, if they are taught to do so. That kind of discipline carries over into one’s entire life. I remember in grade school going into the empty church to sit before the tabernacle because someone was mean to me. Those things can be taught!
 
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