Head transplants

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I would think smart people would better spend their energy in figuring out how people of all nations could keep their original heads. :rolleyes:
 
lmelahn said:
I am assuming here that brain of the “donor” would come along with the head. In that case, what is taking place is not really a “head transplant” but a “full body transplant” of everything else except the head.

In other words, the person who would take consciousness after the procedure would be the “donor” of the head. The ”recipient” would simply die once his head was severed (and presumably discarded).

Each person would retain his soul. It is just that the neck shoulders, arms, and so on would now belong to the person who “donated” the head. The “recipient” would, as I mentioned, be deceased.

If by “donor” you mean the one who provided the head, then yes, he would be present on earth as the “body” that everyone sees. The soul of the “recipient” (the one who provided the body from the neck down) would be in the afterlife (Heaven, Purgatory, Hell: whichever awaits him).

The soul exists in a person’s entire body, brain included. Once the neck, shoulders, and so forth were attached to the head, the entire body from the neck down would become part of the body of the person to whom the head belonged.

The soul is in the entire body, but the brain performs a particularly vital “integrative” function: in other words, without a brain (at least a brain stem and medulla), an adult human body disintegrates and effectively becomes a corpse.

Hence the soul would, in effect, follow the brain wherever it goes.
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Saved by the White Knight! But they will probably have two dead people on their hands. I heard several years ago someone was already experimenting with keeping severed heads alive. I presume this was being done in China or North Korea, some really closed, dictatorship.

Linus2nd
 
Despite other problematic medical advances, such as mitochondrial transplants or embryonic stem cell research, it’s a safe bet that this news story isn’t really going to become reality any time soon. article for more detail.* Popular Science*

The biggest problem of a whole-body transplant is the real-life fact that there isn’t a reliable way to fuse and regenerate a severed spinal cord that restores complete control of both manual and autonomic functions. Bodies aren’t components in a computer. If that were possible, we’d not be elated with a whole-body transplant but in getting a lot of para- and quadriplegics out of their wheelchairs because we could rebuild their damaged spinal cord.

The second challenge is rejection. Unless your body donor is your identical twin, your new body will sense the foreign nature of a new head and attack it with your new body’s own immune system.

As for the theological aspect, the soul is metaphysical. While it may have its physical anchor within the body where your brain rests, there’s nothing medical about our soul. It’s more important than that.
 
pianistclare said:
I would think smart people would better spend their energy in figuring out how people of all nations could keep their original heads. :rolleyes:
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Loss of head, physically, is not an issue except in ISIS territory, Saudi Arabia, or France before 1981.

Loss of head function due to various diseases is more of a problem.

ICXC NIKA
 
The point here is, I think, that we have a least potential solutions to all the problems of a head transplant. The immune rejection issue is already solved for other organs of similar size.

Polyethylene glycol or injection of stem cells or olfactory ensheathing cells may allow a reasonable reconnection of the spinal cord. (And if you are going to die otherwise, how much reconnection counts as ‘reasonable’ anyway?)

And this surgeon at least thinks we can keep the head alive for the time it takes to reconnect it to the new body.

To be clear I think he is wrong. I have read a number of articles on this, and most of the experts still seem to think that we are decades away from this being possible. But is that not about the right point to start sorting out the legal, moral and logistical issues of such surgery?
 
lmelahn said:
I am assuming here that brain of the “donor” would come along with the head. In that case, what is taking place is not really a “head transplant” but a “full body transplant” of everything else except the head.

In other words, the person who would take consciousness after the procedure would be the “donor” of the head. The ”recipient” would simply die once his head was severed (and presumably discarded).

Each person would retain his soul. It is just that the neck shoulders, arms, and so on would now belong to the person who “donated” the head. The “recipient” would, as I mentioned, be deceased.

If by “donor” you mean the one who provided the head, then yes, he would be present on earth as the “body” that everyone sees. The soul of the “recipient” (the one who provided the body from the neck down) would be in the afterlife (Heaven, Purgatory, Hell: whichever awaits him).

The soul exists in a person’s entire body, brain included. Once the neck, shoulders, and so forth were attached to the head, the entire body from the neck down would become part of the body of the person to whom the head belonged.

The soul is in the entire body, but the brain performs a particularly vital “integrative” function: in other words, without a brain (at least a brain stem and medulla), an adult human body disintegrates and effectively becomes a corpse.

Hence the soul would, in effect, follow the brain wherever it goes.
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How do you know all that?? Sounds to much like Frankenstein stuff to me. God Bless, Memaw
 
Spencerian said:
Despite other problematic medical advances, such as mitochondrial transplants or embryonic stem cell research, it’s a safe bet that this news story isn’t really going to become reality any time soon. Enjoy this* Popular Science* article for more detail.

The biggest problem of a whole-body transplant is the real-life fact that there isn’t a reliable way to fuse and regenerate a severed spinal cord that restores complete control of both manual and autonomic functions. Bodies aren’t components in a computer. If that were possible, we’d not be elated with a whole-body transplant but in getting a lot of para- and quadriplegics out of their wheelchairs because we could rebuild their damaged spinal cord.

The second challenge is rejection. Unless your body donor is your identical twin, your new body will sense the foreign nature of a new head and attack it with your new body’s own immune system.

As for the theological aspect, the soul is metaphysical. While it may have its physical anchor within the body where your brain rests, there’s nothing medical about our soul. It’s more important than that.
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Don’t be surprised if one day someone doesn’t think they can transplant a soul !! God Bless, Memaw
 
JamalChristophr said:
This brings a new meaning to the saying, “She’s got a good head on her shoulders.” 🤷

Are Y’all familar with Queen of the Borg from Star Trek? This is really old news. :rolleyes:
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Seriously. Everybody knows that the events in Star Trek already happened long ago in a galaxy far, far away.
 
I understood the Church’s teaching to be the body is the form of the soul. If you transplant a head, where would the soul go? Also, is not the separation of the head from the body a type of death, thus murder? What happens if they are successful, and the old head fathers a child with the new body. Who is the father?:juggle:
 
The_Serpent said:
I understood the Church’s teaching to be the body is the form of the soul. If you transplant a head, where would the soul go? Also, is not the separation of the head from the body a type of death, thus murder? What happens if they are successful, and the old head fathers a child with the new body. Who is the father?:juggle:
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Remember there are initially two bodies/souls (two human beings).

One ostensibly has a dead or shattered head. Since the human body cannot hold life in that state, the soul would arguably have gone.

The other has a good head on the neck of a dying body for whatever reason. As long as the head works, that person’s soul would remain, but not for long once the breathing, etc, were to fail.

So the goal would be to stick the good head on the good body. In effect, a total organ/limb transplant.

The soul would be that of the head, just as souls do not accompany donated organs, limbs or voiceboxes.

I for one do not believe it could work, that the cervical spine could not be reunited and the limbs, never mind the reproductive thing, would never be functional. So the fatherhood thing would never be an issue.

But if it did, the body’s new mind would be the “father”, (assuming head and body were male) using the body’s genes.

Clear as mud, what?

ICXC NIKA.
 
The_Serpent said:
I understood the Church’s teaching to be the body is the form of the soul. If you transplant a head, where would the soul go? Also, is not the separation of the head from the body a type of death, thus murder? What happens if they are successful, and the old head fathers a child with the new body. Who is the father?:juggle:
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Are those heads you are juggling?? Please be careful. Dr. Frankenstein shall be most displeased with you in the event that you let one fall. :bigyikes: Don’t forget what happened to Igor.
 
GEddie said:
Remember there are initially two bodies/souls (two human beings).

One ostensibly has a dead or shattered head. Since the human body cannot hold life in that state, the soul would arguably have gone.

The other has a good head on the neck of a dying body for whatever reason. As long as the head works, that person’s soul would remain, but not for long once the breathing, etc, were to fail.

So the goal would be to stick the good head on the good body. In effect, a total organ/limb transplant.

The soul would be that of the head, just as souls do not accompany donated organs, limbs or voiceboxes.

I for one do not believe it could work, that the cervical spine could not be reunited and the limbs, never mind the reproductive thing, would never be functional. So the fatherhood thing would never be an issue.

But if it did, the body’s new mind would be the “father”, (assuming head and body were male) using the body’s genes.

Clear as mud, what?

ICXC NIKA.
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Your right, clear as mud !! If the heads of both bodies were removed, they would both be dead. Both souls would be gone to their eternal reward. That’s why I don’t believe it could ever happen ! God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
Your right, clear as mud !! If the heads of both bodies were removed, they would both be dead. Both souls would be gone to their eternal reward. That’s why I don’t believe it could ever happen ! God Bless, Memaw
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About ten years ago I heard somone was already experimenting with that problem, probably China or North Korea. The trick will be to keep the subject head alive long enough to do the transplant, and the receiving body would likewise have to be kept artifically alive. Read, That Hedious Strength, by C.S. Lewis, that is one of the themes of the book.

Linus2nd
 
Linusthe2nd said:
About ten years ago I heard somone was already experimenting with that problem, probably China or North Korea. The trick will be to keep the subject head alive long enough to do the transplant, and the receiving body would likewise have to be kept artifically alive. Read, That Hedious Strength, by C.S. Lewis, that is one of the themes of the book.

Linus2nd
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Except that the head is not detached surgically, but beheaded by a guillotine, and is not rebodied, but kept alive in a bodiless state; the original mind/soul is gone, and a new mind (spirit) takes it over.

I don’t believe God would preserve bodiless heads alive in such a scenario.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
Except that the head is not detached surgically, but beheaded by a guillotine, and is not rebodied, but kept alive in a bodiless state; the original mind/soul is gone, and a new mind (spirit) takes it over.

I don’t believe God would preserve bodiless heads alive in such a scenario.

ICXC NIKA
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Don’t be too sure about that. God has shown a tendency to let nature operate without interference, even if that means great sins will be committed. They would not be making such outlandish predictions if they had not already succeeded keeping alive the heads of some animal species. Mice today, men tomorrow! I put no evil beyond the imagination of man. You can bet that if they think there is a market for that sort of thing they will try to market it.

Linus2nd
 
Linusthe2nd said:
Don’t be too sure about that. God has shown a tendency to let nature operate without interference, even if that means great sins will be committed. They would not be making such outlandish predictions if they had not already succeeded keeping alive the heads of some animal species. Mice today, men tomorrow! I put no evil beyond the imagination of man. You can bet that if they think there is a market for that sort of thing they will try to market it.

Linus2nd
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Man may mess with the body but he can’t control the soul. Only God has say so over the soul. HE will only let man go so far before HE puts a stop to it. HE has done so in the past. God Bless, Memaw
 
Linusthe2nd said:
Don’t be too sure about that. God has shown a tendency to let nature operate without interference, even if that means great sins will be committed. They would not be making such outlandish predictions if they had not already succeeded keeping alive the heads of some animal species. Mice today, men tomorrow! I put no evil beyond the imagination of man. You can bet that if they think there is a market for that sort of thing they will try to market it.

Linus2nd
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Keeping a bodiless head alive is hardly “natural.”

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
Keeping a bodiless head alive is hardly “natural.”

ICXC NIKA
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Obviously the means are unnatural. But what the head needs to stay alive is the right mixture of blood and oxygen and other things the body normally provides naturally. As long as the head is supplied with the nutrients it demands, life should be sustained indefinitely. But yes it is a grossly perverse use of science. Keep in mind some of the other unnatural things science has done, dolly the cow for example and now three parent embryos.

Linus2nd.
 
Linusthe2nd said:
Obviously the means are unnatural. But what the head needs to stay alive is the right mixture of blood and oxygen and other things the body normally provides naturally. As long as the head is supplied with the nutrients it demands, life should be sustained indefinitely. But yes it is a grossly perverse use of science. Keep in mind some of the other unnatural things science has done, dolly the cow for example and now three parent embryos.

Linus2nd.
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So you don’t believe in hylomorphic dualism anymore?
 
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