Headcovering and headship

  • Thread starter Thread starter anilorak13ska
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

anilorak13ska

Guest
If one of the aspects of the headcovering is to acknowledge headship (I realize this isn’t THE reason, but one of them, if understand correctly), then how does one resolve the paradox of a married woman desiring to veil before the Blessed Sacrament while her husband does not fully support her desire to do so?

I know not every woman is called to this devotion, so on one hand it seems that if she is so moved, it’s between her and God. On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to go against my husband’s wishes in this regard when the very thing in question deals with my supposed acceptance of his headship.

Thoughts??
Thanks in advance!
PS. I plan to start wearing hats in the meantime, as I continue to pray about this and see if my husband comes around.
 
If one of the aspects of the headcovering is to acknowledge headship (I realize this isn’t THE reason, but one of them, if understand correctly), then how does one resolve the paradox of a married woman desiring to veil before the Blessed Sacrament while her husband does not fully support her desire to do so?

I know not every woman is called to this devotion, so on one hand it seems that if she is so moved, it’s between her and God. On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to go against my husband’s wishes in this regard when the very thing in question deals with my supposed acceptance of his headship.

Thoughts??
Thanks in advance!
PS. I plan to start wearing hats in the meantime, as I continue to pray about this and see if my husband comes around.
I’m confused about your linking of the two ideas. I do cover my head, but it’s not about my marriage, it’s about Jesus. Single women cover their heads, too.

(That doesn’t mean I didn’t ask my husband about it.)
 
SACRED CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
DECLARATION
INTER INSIGNIORES
Another objection is based upon the transitory character that one claims to see today in some of the prescriptions of Saint Paul concerning women, and upon the difficulties that some aspects of his teaching raise in this regard.** But it must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11:2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value**.
 
ummm, clear as mud :confused: I think I may have watched/read too many non-Catholic Christian thoughts on the subject of headcovering. I had assumed this was one of the aspects of it, but I now think the other resources dealt with full-time headcovering. And of course, they don’t have our Eucharistic Lord, so …

If veiling for the Blessed Sacrament has nothing to do with headship whatsoever (either one’s father or one’s husband, I guess), then my question is moot. Seeing as it’s been impossible to dig up any Catholic resources online on the subject, I may have gotten confused with the Protestant opinions. My mistake.

Thanks anyway.
 
ummm, clear as mud :confused: I think I may have watched/read too many non-Catholic Christian thoughts on the subject of headcovering. I had assumed this was one of the aspects of it, but I now think the other resources dealt with full-time headcovering. And of course, they don’t have our Eucharistic Lord, so …

If veiling for the Blessed Sacrament has nothing to do with headship whatsoever (either one’s father or one’s husband, I guess), then my question is moot. Seeing as it’s been impossible to dig up any Catholic resources online on the subject, I may have gotten confused with the Protestant opinions. My mistake.

Thanks anyway.
Yeah it’s just not something Catholics spend any time thinking about. Or writing about.

It’s a discipline that made sense in the context of the first century, particularly when uncovered or shorn hair were indicators of prostitution, and in later centuries when such head coverings still were the social norm for modest (i.e. Virtuous) women.
 
I’m confused about your linking of the two ideas. I do cover my head, but it’s not about my marriage, it’s about Jesus. Single women cover their heads, too.

(That doesn’t mean I didn’t ask my husband about it.)
What did your husband think of the idea? And if he wouldn’t have liked it, would this have affected your decision?
 
I think I understand why your husband doesn’t want you to cover: You see it as a sign of headship, but a sign to whom? Him, you, God, others? If he’s thought about this the idea and the possibility that others would think that it was his idea or misunderstand the kind of relationship you have. He can understand where you are coming from but people on the outside won’t and he may not be on board with that.
 
I’m confused about your linking of the two ideas. I do cover my head, but it’s not about my marriage, it’s about Jesus. Single women cover their heads, too.

(That doesn’t mean I didn’t ask my husband about it.)
I agree for me it is about submission to Christ (although my husband wats me to cover so I guess I got that thrown in for free !)
 
I think I understand why your husband doesn’t want you to cover: You see it as a sign of headship, but a sign to whom? Him, you, God, others? If he’s thought about this the idea and the possibility that others would think that it was his idea or misunderstand the kind of relationship you have. He can understand where you are coming from but people on the outside won’t and he may not be on board with that.
Well, my understanding was that the point of submission to one’s husband is to acknowledge one’s submission to God, so two for one, no? And it seems that if we were supposed to worry about what other people thought instead of following the tugging of God on our hearts, we’d be in quite a mess, no?:confused:

By the way, I asked if dh was concerned about others seeing him as a “chauvenist” (by assuming he was “making” me veil), but he said no, that the people at our church know him and our family enough to know that isn’t true. He is concerned that it’s “trying too hard”, coming across as “holier than thou”. But when I asked him what he thought of the few other women he’s seen cover, he admitted that while his knee jerk reaction is as he said, once he observes the family, he sees that it’s not that at all.

I’m not rushing into this, I just want to be able to mark the sacredness of the space when in the presence of Our Lord. DH agrees with me that there’s too much mundane/secular attitude in the sanctuary. People hang around after mass and carry on conversations, for starters. Dress in general can get abysmall at times. Some people try to say hello when going up for Communion, instead of focusing on what they’re doing. I’m not trying to judge any of these individually, but taken together, it feels no different from any other gathering of people, some of whom happen to know each other.

To me, seeing a mantilla (or even any fabric covering - with hats, I always wonder if it’s “on purpose” or not )😉 is a welcome reminder that there is something special about where we are, what is going on. The mantilla comes right off as soon as the woman leaves the church. It’s all about Our Eucharistic Lord, from where I’m standing. But other people see it differently and project their assumptions onto why they think women cover. 😦
 
What did your husband think of the idea? And if he wouldn’t have liked it, would this have affected your decision?
It would have, but not because I feel called to obey his wishes, just out of mutual respect and compassion. I may try to persuade, or implement a change gradually, but I would not nag or flat out refuse to consider his view point.

As it was, he thought it was unusual at first although he knew it was a common traditional devotion and widely practiced in the past. I started with headbands and scarves before hats and veils. He “likes” it now, but wouldn’t demand that I do it if it was a devotional practice I decided to stop.

I would say if you want to, it needs to be about you and the Lord, not about what other people are doing or thinking. There may be “ripple” effects, but really, it’s about prayer and your focus on God.
 
Well, my understanding was that the point of submission to one’s husband is to acknowledge one’s submission to God, so two for one, no? And it seems that if we were supposed to worry about what other people thought instead of following the tugging of God on our hearts, we’d be in quite a mess, no?:confused:

By the way, I asked if dh was concerned about others seeing him as a “chauvenist” (by assuming he was “making” me veil), but he said no, that the people at our church know him and our family enough to know that isn’t true. He is concerned that it’s “trying too hard”, coming across as “holier than thou”. But when I asked him what he thought of the few other women he’s seen cover, he admitted that while his knee jerk reaction is as he said, once he observes the family, he sees that it’s not that at all

I’m not rushing into this, I just want to be able to mark the sacredness of the space when in the presence of Our Lord. DH agrees with me that there’s too much mundane/secular attitude in the sanctuary. People hang around after mass and carry on conversations, for starters. Dress in general can get abysmall at times. Some people try to say hello when going up for Communion, instead of focusing on what they’re doing. I’m not trying to judge any of these individually, but taken together, it feels no different from any other gathering of people, some of whom happen to know each other

To me, seeing a mantilla (or even any fabric covering - with hats, I always wonder if it’s “on purpose” or not )😉 is a welcome reminder that there is something special about where we are, what is going on. The mantilla comes right off as soon as the woman leaves the church. It’s all about Our Eucharistic Lord, from where I’m standing. But other people see it differently and project their assumptions onto why they think women cover. 😦
As a priest, I think a real problem arises when people invest in something a meaning and a significance beyond what is right and what is proper

My mother, gone to God for many decades, was very grateful when the convention of both covering her head and wearing a dress was abolished toward the end of her life. It had already been so in secular life for years and her wardrobe reflected that. From her perspective, it was a change long overdue in the Church…and I agree

It was a social convention that had become passe in society and, eventually, the parish as well. A proper lady did not need to be clad in a dress, as opposed to a pantsuit, and also with hat and gloves and handbag

There was no profound spiritual meaning for women in the 50s and 60s when they covered their head…some times with simply a tissue attached by a hair pin. They certainly did NOT think of it as veiling. A woman who “took the veil” became a Nun or a Sister

The concept that “God asked me to do X” moreover is a very slippery slope that I find has crept into popular conversation at a level that is disturbing

One can certainly, legitimately, have a sense of being called to the Secular Franciscan Order or the Dominican Laity or to a parish ministry or to service to the poor

To be called by God to wear a certain type of clothing in a given instance is quite another matter to assert

I remember a case of a lady who submitted, for spiritual direction, a desire for her wardrobe to move toward exclusive use of the colors black and white. She was a member of the Dominican third order secular. Her wardrobe would carefully avoid the appearance of being in any way a type of habit but simply adopting the Dominican color scheme

Whether this was part of her vocation as a tertiary or her personal preference was really moot and did not need discernment in the end. It was of benefit to her at a personal level, it was not harmful, it did not feed a misconception of hers or anyone else of what it is to be a tertiary, and it did not cause others to assume she was a Religious – which would be the case had she adopted some sort of modified Religious habit. Her dresses and blouses and pants and skirts were simply ensembles in white and black. It was so very discreet that I am sure what she did was lost on many people

You hit the nail on the head when, in looking at the women wearing hats, you wondered if it was deliberate or simply their taste in fashion. The same would be true for a man who comes to Mass wearing a tie and jacket or even a suit. If it is an action he has chosen to honour the Lord and to lend a decorum to the Domus Dei it should be a disposition that is interior to him…hidden and not for being noted by others

As a priest, there are special occasions where I wear a special cassock…other times I go into the church in my standard house cassock – and other times when I have on a clerical shirt and still others, if I am doing something more manual where, given the work I am doing, a simple pullover shirt that I can easily put into the washing machine

There is nothing more honouring to the Lord by my being in the church in the cassock than in the pullover shirt…in fact not being in the cassock can be more utilitarian if I am doing something where the cassock is too cumbersome

In fact, there have been times when I have gone to the sacristy to take off the cassock before changing the tabernacle veil so I am not climbing a step stool in an ankle length garment that could occasion my catching my foot and falling

In sum, I have known tertiaries who like to wear their larger ceremonial scapular when they pray at home. I have known people who find wearing a prayer shawl helpful to the devotions they do at home…but, again, asserting that God wants them to wear the scapular or prayer shawl when they do certain activities is quite different from saying the person chooses to do it because they find it of benefit – and that distinction is the key to where controversy can and often does begin
 
Don Ruggero, you offer such charity and clarity in your replies. I am grateful for that.
 
Don Ruggero, you offer such charity and clarity in your replies. I am grateful for that.
Indeed, thank you very much for your thoughtful feedback. I especially appreciate the distinction you make between claiming being called by God to a practice versus simply owning it as a personal preference. It also gave me pause when you commented on the ambiguity of the hat in church…

Makes me think of Matthew 6:1 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven” and also Matthew 6:16-18 “Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites [do], for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees [what is done] in secret will reward you.” (emphasis mine)

As it stands, I feel a hat may be the most appropriate move for me at this time. Thank you 🙂
 
In my parish, many of the women wear veils. Almost all of the younger ones that is. Most of the older women are totally opposed.

So we have all these young women, who actually do have hair to show off - cover it. As a guy, I find that … awesome!!!

But yes, of course it has to do with headship of one’s husband and the glory of a woman’s hair. The Holy Scripture taught it then and it remains true now.
The difference, yes, the Church does not require it. So, nothing really to worry about and certainly it would be wrong to point at non-veiled or veiled people, either way in giving blame. It is devotional.

Our parish is very traditional, very oriented to the Blessed Sacrament (Latin Mass), so veiling just seems normal and I guess, the younger women see the excellence in that practice. There doesn’t seem to be any reason that I can see for doing away with St Paul’s injunction. I mean, even on a practical level. St. Paul says a woman’s hair should be nourished because it is her glory - given by God. I’ve seen enough of it in my life to agree, yes it is beautiful. But do I want to look at that all around me at Mass, drawing my attention? Let’s just say, the veil is an act of courtesy to men also - as well as giving beautiful honor and an act of humility to God.

All of the men I know love seeing the veil (or hats are ok). It says "devotion, focus, humility, self-lessness, purity – and many other things).

Do many women today in society (even at Mass) dress like sl … unChristian sorts? And is the veil a radical opposition to that kind of unchaste dress?
For me, yes to both answers.

Regarding headship - well, no offense, but a lot of guys don’t want that responsibility. Or perhaps they’re embarrassed by how the veil shows so much devotion. Many want a more casual look. I don’t want that, but I should not judge. The Church has relaxed that norm (except if you want to go to St. Peter’s Basilica ;))

Headship is not as much fun as many would think.
Feminism supposedly put an end to all that. So, there is no headship. Thus, are are no men (or at least, a lot fewer of them).

I’m only speaking as one who has suffered much, fought some, lost too many times and am in no way in any position to judge or set myself above anyone, veiled or not, headshipper or not.

Just hoping my thoughts can stir up something good or perhaps just different, for you to think about also in your faith journey. Please don’t feel bad about veils either way. But if you want to feel good about them, then please do that! 👍
 
The only difficulty I have in understanding is that it pretty much hobbles any of us women from wearing a veil/chapel cap/mantilla (and more than a few of us women have ones that belonged to us when we were younger, or to our mothers), and even from wearing scarves or hats unless it’s the dead of winter in the northern states (and keeping them on during Mass). . .because it is ‘not the norm’. And because it’s ‘not the norm’, then we’re ‘drawing attention to ourselves’ apparently.

I thought that God looked within? I thought that we weren’t supposed to judge by appearances, or to assume that people’s actions were done solely, mainly, or even ‘partly’ for our own ‘glory’. . .

But it seems that if I went to church tomorrow wearing my mom’s vintage mantilla, or my aunt’s silk headscarf, or even a ‘church hat’ (as one woman at my parish does), I’d be judged as trying to look all holier-than-thou and making people uncomfortable purely for my own selfish and, in this ‘time’, ‘wrong’ desires. . . yet if I were to go to church wearing ripped jeans, tight short skirts, showing some ‘skin’, or wearing a rumpled track suit or a faded stretched out T-shirt, people would be lined up in my defense.

"How can you judge her for what she’s wearing? maybe that’s the best she has. Maybe she’s been at a sickbed. Maybe she didn’t have time to change. Shouldn’t we be glad she’s at church at all? How can you ‘shame’ a woman like that by commenting on her attire? It’s up to men to rein in their ‘lust’. We need to meet people ‘where they are’. “Who are you to judge”?

It just puzzles me that if a woman dresses in the latter way, people bend over backwards to either affirm her right to choose, or tell others pretty much to shut up with the judging, but if she dresses in the former way, the assumption is that she’s a rigid hypocrite who should have the covering ripped from her head ASAP and told to stop trying to ‘put down’ other women etc. etc.

It puzzles me a lot.
 
Great post, TE. I am still laughing at your list of “defenses” there. You nailed it.
Yes, it’s … puzzling. 🤷 Good job. 🙂
 
A suprizingly civil discussion. I would have thought that there would be accusations from the women who do that the women who don’t are immoral and accusations from the women who don’t that the women who do are in the taliban.
🙂
 
So I wore a hat to mass this past Sunday, and I’m sorry to say that it most definitely did NOT help me focus on Our Lord. I was distracted and self-conscious. To be fair, it may have been that we had a busy day and arrived a bit later than usual and I had to go straight to changing the baby’s diaper and then he kept fussing in the carrier without falling asleep… so I think I ought to at least give it another go. Still, I was disappointed that the fact it was a hat versus a scarf/etc. (as I had tried years ago) still didn’t make it feel like just a part of my outfit.

My husband now says that he just wants to make sure I’m doing it for the right reason. I asked how he’d know, since I had given him my reasons, and Catalyst that he is, he replied “how do you know God exists?” :confused: You just know, I said. I wonder if my recent discomfort with the hat had to do with his being weird about the whole thing.

Our 3.5 yo daughter also wore her summer hat. At least that was lovely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top