Healing In Homosexuality

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bigcatfish777

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Sup Everyone,
So I have been doing a little research about a topic I’ve heard a lot about recently and I want a Catholic perspective.
Do Catholics believe in healing for homosexuals?
I have heard a lot of thought about exgay therapy and I do not agree with it at all. In Judges 2:7 it says God wouldn’t give victory to Isreal until they took away troops. Why? Because God wanted the glory. I think people are putting trust in these therapists and giving them the glory when it should go to God only.
Also only some people are called to celibacy. Trying it without the gift is very damaging and in the words of Jesus himself “impossible” for most.
People say this is there cross to bear but how can u have 100% faith (which is required for healing) if u don’t even know if God wants to heal you? Jesus died for all our healing. He already purchased and died for it. Why would he take that back?
Want to hear everyone’s thought here plz.
 
Consider the words of Jesus, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.” (Matthew 9:12) Notice that our Lord does not condemn the use of physicians and others who seek by God-given natural means to remedy human disorders but recommends physicians to the sick.

Physicians and others who seek by God-given natural means to remedy human disorders are also recommended in Sirach 38:1-15, where I think your concerns are addressed. If you are unfamiliar with Sirach, it is an Old Testament book found in Catholic Bibles but not generally found in Protestant Bibles.
 
bigcatfish777 said:
Also only some people are called to celibacy. Trying it without the gift is very damaging and in the words of Jesus himself “impossible” for most.
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Welcome!

I don’t have much to say regarding the main point of your question, but the part I quoted caught my attention.
4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.” 10 The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” 11 But he said to them, “Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” -Matt 19:4-12
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Is this the Scripture you are talking of when you say Jesus says celibacy is near impossible? I don’t understand him to say celibacy is impossible for most, but that the teaching regarding both marriage and eunuchs is hard!

Some are called to celibacy, but we are all called to chastity.

It’s also important to remember that Jesus said in heaven, we neither marry nor are given in marriage. Both celibacy and marriage point forward to this expectation. Celibacy in that we reserve ourselves for God now, marriage in that it shadows God’s faithfulness to his people, his bride.

No one is left to carry their cross by themselves, but the life of a Christian does require the cross, for like Jesus says, no one is greater than his master. He does say that if we want to be his disciples, we must pick up our cross and follow after him. Fortunately, we have help.

I’ll leave the main gist of your question for others, though.
 
Todd977 said:
Consider the words of Jesus, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.” (Matthew 9:12) Notice that our Lord does not condemn the use of physicians and others who seek by God-given natural means to remedy human disorders but recommends physicians to the sick.

Physicians and others who seek by God-given natural means to remedy human disorders are also recommended in Sirach 38:1-15, where I think your concerns are addressed. If you are unfamiliar with Sirach, it is an Old Testament book found in Catholic Bibles but not generally found in Protestant Bibles.
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I agree with that statement but from what I hear these there apes don’t work. I mean the CEO of Exodus even said it dosnt work. Why try it if there seems to be no fruit coming from it? Beside a lot of people go into it thinking “I hope it works, but it might not” and that’s not faith. Plus it costs a ton of money. Humans haven’t shown that this is an effective treatment. I turkey believe God can do this alone as long as you believe in Him and be willing to tell God everything and trust him.
 
TCEL said:
Welcome!

I don’t have much to say regarding the main point of your question, but the part I quoted caught my attention.

Is this the Scripture you are talking of when you say Jesus says celibacy is near impossible? I don’t understand him to say celibacy is impossible for most, but that the teaching regarding both marriage and eunuchs is hard!

Some are called to celibacy, but we are all called to chastity.

It’s also important to remember that Jesus said in heaven, we neither marry nor are given in marriage. Both celibacy and marriage point forward to this expectation. Celibacy in that we reserve ourselves for God now, marriage in that it shadows God’s faithfulness to his people, his bride.

No one is left to carry their cross by themselves, but the life of a Christian does require the cross, for like Jesus says, no one is greater than his master. He does say that if we want to be his disciples, we must pick up our cross and follow after him. Fortunately, we have help.

I’ll leave the main gist of your question for others, though.
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I know bust most Gay people know celibacy is not there calling and not Gods calling. Jesus died for that healing. If we say to God “I don’t need that healing I can be celibate” then that’s a bad thing I think. God called it an abomination. We need to declaim and bring down that healing.
 
Thanks for your thoughts tho. This is a topic that needs talked about more cause it’s causing a lot of pain to a lot of people.
 
bigcatfish777 said:
I know bust most Gay people know celibacy is not there calling and not Gods calling. Jesus died for that healing. If we say to God “I don’t need that healing I can be celibate” then that’s a bad thing I think. God called it an abomination. We need to declaim and bring down that healing.
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I wouldn’t want to put words into God’s mouth as to what a gay person’s calling is! All I know is that God loves them very much. Jesus died for our healing, yes. How much life that healing brings–and in some cases, that healing may be through celibacy. I don’t know of anyone who would approach celibacy because they think they don’t need healing… that sounds strange. In other words, celibacy is not a deficiency. However, I know there are others here who can better testify to your question.
 
When you were still in ur mothers womb God had a plan for you. Usually Gods plan is for you to get married to procreate. Now if you develope ssa around say 5 years old that plan dosnt change. Gods plan is to restore you to that origional plan. Also most Gay people I have found are “burning with desire” I feel. They want to marry and have kids like everyone else. God honors the desires of the heart. It’s says to delight in God and he will give you the desires of your heart. If marriage is in your heart (and I say 95% of most gay Christians have that desire) then shooting for freedom and healing is where your hope should be.
 
If Gods origional plan was celibacy then I agree. Totally different story.
 
I counseled a guy who said he used homosexual prostitutes and in talking with them almost all of them had been cultured into homosexuality by being sexually abused at a young age. All homos are not prostitutes though so I can’t draw any conclusions, but I do very much doubt the “born gay” belief system so prevalent today.
 
Deus_tecum said:
I counseled a guy who said he used homosexual prostitutes and in talking with them almost all of them had been cultured into homosexuality by being sexually abused at a young age. All homos are not prostitutes though so I can’t draw any conclusions, but I do very much doubt the “born gay” belief system so prevalent today.
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Yea I agree but that really shouldn’t be an issue. I saw someone who was BORN deaf and they were healed right in front of me. God can and wants to heal and he dosnt really care if we were born a certain way or not. I believe it’s something that happens to them at a young age.
 
bigcatfish777 said:
Sup Everyone,
So I have been doing a little research about a topic I’ve heard a lot about recently and I want a Catholic perspective.
Do Catholics believe in healing for homosexuals?
I have heard a lot of thought about exgay therapy and I do not agree with it at all. In Judges 2:7 it says God wouldn’t give victory to Isreal until they took away troops. Why? Because God wanted the glory. I think people are putting trust in these therapists and giving them the glory when it should go to God only.
Also only some people are called to celibacy. Trying it without the gift is very damaging and in the words of Jesus himself “impossible” for most.
People say this is there cross to bear but how can u have 100% faith (which is required for healing) if u don’t even know if God wants to heal you? Jesus died for all our healing. He already purchased and died for it. Why would he take that back?
Want to hear everyone’s thought here plz.
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I would suggest reading anything on the NARTH web site. Here is a good place to start for some factual information.

I’m not sure I understand why you would apply a different standard for freely chosen reorientation therapy (for those experiencing unwanted same-sex attractions) than you do for any other psychological counseling or medical treatment?
 
Fr_of_Jazz said:
I would suggest reading anything on the NARTH web site. Here is a good place to start for some factual information.

I’m not sure I understand why you would apply a different standard for freely chosen reorientation therapy (for those experiencing unwanted same-sex attractions) than you do for any other psychological counseling or medical treatment?
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Cool I’m checking it out now. I say this because I never met anyone who had success with this. There’s no data that says “hey this is working”. I have met people who completely trusted God and believed for his healing and let God be number one in there life and they were set free. What person is going to put attractions for a girl in you if you never felt that before?
 
Also the bible says believe and do not doubt. NARTH says change is “possible” and that’s not the kinda faith you need. You need to renew young mind and let God cleanse your mind and put these attractions in you. No person can do that. God loves these people and wants there full devotion.
 
bigcatfish777 said:
Also the bible says believe and do not doubt. NARTH says change is “possible” and that’s not the kinda faith you need. You need to renew young mind and let God cleanse your mind and put these attractions in you. No person can do that. God loves these people and wants there full devotion.
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I agree with some of the things in your posts and I want to know what you think of a person that has surrendered everything to God but continues to be attracted to the same sex. Is living chastely something that can bring glory to God, is the ssa something that can be the cross that can the a path to sanctity or what?
 
bigcatfish777 said:
Cool I’m checking it out now. I say this because I never met anyone who had success with this. There’s no data that says “hey this is working”.
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NARTH counselors including Dr. Joseph Nicolosi (founder of NARTH) indicates that it can and has worked in some cases. No one claims that it cures like an aspirin cures a headache.
I have met people who completely trusted God and believed for his healing and let God be number one in there life and they were set free. What person is going to put attractions for a girl in you if you never felt that before?
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I believe in miracles too.

(1) But you still have not made it clear: why you would apply a different standard for freely chosen reorientation therapy (for those experiencing unwanted same-sex attractions) than you do for any other psychological counseling or medical treatment?

Where is the line? Depression, anxiety disorders, personality disorders, etc. can be understood and aided by therapy, but not gender identity disorders and unwanted same sex attractions (SSAs)? Off hand, that seems arbitrary.

(2) Also you seem to be taking an either-or position, if I understand you correctly. A both-and (prayer and therapy) position re the orientation, like any other therapy (psychological or physical) for a Christian, seems the most logical.

(3) The degree of SSA is on a scale: it’s not either-or. A conclusion from this is that there is no such a thing as a homosexual person, but rather a heterosexual person with a homosexual problem.

(4) Reparative therapy is based on developing ones heterosexual potential especially since disturbances in same sex identification are often a large factor in SSAs.

(5) In teens, same sex experiences can occur with most developing into heterosexual adults. Check this out.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
I agree with some of the things in your posts and I want to know what you think of a person that has surrendered everything to God but continues to be attracted to the same sex. Is living chastely something that can bring glory to God, is the ssa something that can be the cross that can the a path to sanctity or what?
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Yea if you believe that your calling is a celibate life then yes obey that calling. Absolutely. I am concerned that people feel like it’s there “only” option when they deal with ssa. That can be horrible for a person to feel that way. A cross to bear is meant to strengthen you and keep you close to God. It’s that constant reminder that you have a problem still and you need God with you always. So God may keep a little SSA is your life to keep you on the straight and narrow. That’s a good thing. But God certainly dosnt desire you to just assume this is his will and God dosnt want to heal you and give you a wife and children.
 
Fr_of_Jazz said:
NARTH counselors including Dr. Joseph Nicolosi (founder of NARTH) indicates that it can and has worked in some cases. No one claims that it cures like an aspirin cures a headache.

I believe in miracles too.

(1) But you still have not made it clear: why you would apply a different standard for freely chosen reorientation therapy (for those experiencing unwanted same-sex attractions) than you do for any other psychological counseling or medical treatment?

Where is the line? Depression, anxiety disorders, personality disorders, etc. can be understood and aided by therapy, but not gender identity disorders and unwanted same sex attractions (SSAs)? Off hand, that seems arbitrary.

(2) Also you seem to be taking an either-or position, if I understand you correctly. A both-and (prayer and therapy) position re the orientation, like any other therapy (psychological or physical) for a Christian, seems the most logical.

(3) The degree of SSA is on a scale: it’s not either-or. A conclusion from this is that there is no such a thing as a homosexual person, but rather a heterosexual person with a homosexual problem.

(4) Reparative therapy is based on developing ones heterosexual potential especially since disturbances in same sex identification are often a large factor in SSAs.

(5) In teens, same sex experiences can occur with most developing into heterosexual adults. Check this out.
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I understand and I won’t bounce around the question. If your depressed and get therapy that’s fine but your true reliance should be with God to heal you. I was depressed for years and had awful anxiety but once I got real with God in a matter of a year I was healed and take no meds. My focus was on doctors and meds. Untill I sat down and said “God I want you to heal me” it was only temporary.

I believe humans have no idea how to properly treat ssa. I believe it’s something only God can heal. I don’t believe a person who ONLY felt attractions for guys can just develope feelings for girls.

To be honest idk how to answer your good questions. I just know and seen people be healed with only God and I know it works. I don’t believe humans have shown to effectively treat this…
 
bigcatfish777 said:
Yea if you believe that your calling is a celibate life then yes obey that calling. Absolutely. I am concerned that people feel like it’s there “only” option when they deal with ssa. That can be horrible for a person to feel that way. A cross to bear is meant to strengthen you and keep you close to God. It’s that constant reminder that you have a problem still and you need God with you always. So God may keep a little SSA is your life to keep you on the straight and narrow. That’s a good thing. But God certainly dosnt desire you to just assume this is his will and God dosnt want to heal you and give you a wife and children.
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Interesting. Again I *think I agree with what you are saying and have said it a similar but different way. I’m not sure I’ll get into it here since I don’t know how much time I can commit to following up on this thread (the other time I spent a lot of time clarifying misinterpretations and it was frustrating.)

FWIW, I’m not a dude and I’m single and straight. I wade into discussions on ssa frequently though I try not to since I feel like I’m speaking out of turn. I’m just not a fan of the harsh approach of many or that homosexuality is singled out like it’s the unforgivable sin. And the qualifier ^ “think” is there in case I find I do not understand you correctly or if you are one those that relishes going after the gays.

And welcome to CAF :).
 
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