Healing misunderstandings and wounds through charitable dialogue

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Marybeloved said:
A phenomenon which he can’t show anywhere except in his assertions. If that is true, why do you have such a hard time showing it? What teaching, what phenomenon that can be found nowhere in our teachings or definitions? Just claiming and believing something doesn’t make it so.
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I don’t need to show it. That’s for brother dzheremi to do, if he decides so. He’s just pointing out his observation. That’s the other thing I notice about the Latinized mindset: “show me the proof!” We don’t need to be pegged into details so heavily, just understand the root of things, and go from there
Note from Moderator:
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This discussion on understanding each other was sufficiently off-topic to create a new thread from it. It also, sadly, did not maintain our expectations for charitable discussion in places, but I expect that will be amended as the conversation continues.
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Please see here for the original discussion asking if one may receive Communion in the Eastern Catholic Churches with a serious sin on the soul.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
Eastern Catholicism Moderator
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lssanjose said:
I don’t need to show it. That’s for brother dzheremi to do, if he decides so. He’s just pointing out his observation. That’s the other thing I notice about the Latinized mindset: “show me the proof!” We don’t need to be pegged into details so heavily, just understand the root of things, and go from there
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That’s not a Latin mindset. If one makes assertions, one has to be able to back it up. Do you just accept everything you hear or read even if you really disagree with it?
 
TrueLight said:
That’s not a Latin mindset. If one makes assertions, one has to be able to back it up. Do you just accept everything you hear or read even if you really disagree with it?
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Not if they’re speaking from personal, and I mean really personal observation. It’s not a matter of acceptance, or nonacceptance. I understand where dzheremi is coming from, as he explained his observation. It doesn’t mean I agree, or disagree. I see his argument, and I thanked him for it.
 
lssanjose said:
That’s the other thing I notice about the Latinized mindset: "show me the proof!"
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I don’t know about that. :confused: In fact, I think many of the most legitimate complaints against the Latin Catholic Church have to do with a “Don’t question, just accept” mentality.
 
Peter_J said:
I don’t know about that. :confused: In fact, I think many of the most legitimate complaints against the Latin Catholic Church have to do with a “Don’t question, just accept” mentality.
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true, on both counts. Then again, maybe i should have prefaced, brother peter: show me the proof was something I came across certain protestant camps. But I gotta hand it to them: they want to learn, and do what they can to study the word; and more importantly, discuss it.

I think, it comes down to context. When it comes to apologetics (my perception is, and this is MY perception of what I’ve read so far), when we feel on the defensive we’ll start quoting things left and right. Particularly, when it comes to disagreement. I know people will ask for citation of this, and that. But, we’re on an internet forum, we’re not here writing essays, unless you’re using this board to help write one (not sure if they have in-text citation practices for such environments, yet). 😉
 
ConstantineTG said:
If you don’t get that, it’s fine. You’re not EC, it is not your spirituality. But don’t tell us what our spirituality is.
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And what do you say to the other EC’s who don’t agree with everything you’ve said?

They’re just wrong right?
 
I don’t about the Byzantines, but among the Orientals there is generally not only one way to view things. So if I disagree with someone from church (aside from the fact that I’m probably wrong), it is not automatically a cause for debate. Everyone has their own way of approaching the faith, and the only boundary is between those who embrace heterodox ideas/interpretations (who must be corrected) and those who do not, but may still vary from the person next to them.
 
dzheremi said:
I don’t about the Byzantines, but among the Orientals there is generally not only one way to view things. So if I disagree with someone from church (aside from the fact that I’m probably wrong), it is not automatically a cause for debate. Everyone has their own way of approaching the faith, and the only boundary is between those who embrace heterodox ideas/interpretations (who must be corrected) and those who do not, but may still vary from the person next to them.
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That’s not a bad way to look at things.
 
I would be surprised if the Easterners didn’t embrace some form of that thinking.
 
TrueLight said:
And what do you say to the other EC’s who don’t agree with everything you’ve said?

They’re just wrong right?
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The proper wording we are employing now is, “we are rediscovering our traditions and these are our traditions so we must do it this way from now on.”
 
ConstantineTG said:
The proper wording we are employing now is, “we are rediscovering our traditions and these are our traditions so we must do it this way from now on.”
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Does this translate to: “Aw shuks, those EC’s are just latinized”?
 
TrueLight said:
Does this translate to: “Aw shuks, those EC’s are just latinized”?
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Yes. We admit that Latin traditions have infiltrated our Churches and that they are not our authentic traditions. As ECs we do not say the Latin traditions are wrong, but they are not our traditions therefore we should not be living them. I mean, you’re American, should you live like a Filipino? Of course not. Not that Filipino culture is bad that you shouldn’t live it, but it is not your culture.
 
ConstantineTG said:
As I said time and again, the truth does not change no matter how others insist on the untruth.
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But isn’t that the easy way out - to dismiss certain opinions as latinizations? That prevents you from having an open mind and maybe learn something?

If celebrate when some egg you on, but block out completely those who have a different view, is that a good thing?
 
TrueLight said:
But isn’t that the easy way out - to dismiss certain opinions as latinizations? That prevents you from having an open mind and maybe learn something?
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Not necessarily. Consider: no one can be expected to constantly reconsider every belief that they hold, simply because they’re aware of people who disagree.
 
Peter_J said:
Not necessarily. Consider: no one can be expected to constantly reconsider every belief that they hold, simply because they’re aware of people who disagree.
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I didn’t say “constantly reconsider”, but part of listening is really trying to understand where the person is coming from and not dismissing their opinions/beliefs out of hand.
 
Peter_J said:
Not necessarily. Consider: no one can be expected to constantly reconsider every belief that they hold, simply because they’re aware of people who disagree.
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So they’re expected to constantly keep a closed- mind about other perspectives?
 
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