Health Care in Other Countries

  • Thread starter Thread starter Listener
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Listener

Guest
There are so many people here in the USA who can’t stand the idea of the government getting involved in medical insurance. Since not everyone posting here lives in the USA, I would like to ask, “What kind of health care/medical insurance do you have in your country?” Do you love it or hate it? What are the greatest advantages and disadvantages?
 
Us brits (UK) simply don’t understand why you in USA are so against having a health care system fair for all like our NHS.Most of us in UK care very much for our vulnerable,poor, disadvantaged,unemployed ,disabled, elderly and so and we know, no matter what ,we will all get the same treatment.No-one would be turned away.If someone lost their job in your country they lose their benefits (meaning private insurance health care) and it must be a great worry to you all.Do you all (US citizens) worry about your poor homeless unemployed disabled elderly vulnerable etc when they cannot get the medicine for their children for example or for themselves as you will witness here on CAF frequently especially in the Prayer Forum?
I understand it is the unknown and you may have read adverse media in recent times but our NHS is extremely successful and we are all so proud of it and grateful to have it available to us.
In Canada I know they also have an excellent health care system.

I hope this does not spark more inflammatory reaction as I know in the past whenever this topic has arisen before some very impolite posters and yes they are catholic, can be very rude.
I wish you all in USA well with your mid term elections and hope you all get what it is you are voting for.
May God bless each one of you to make the right decisions for your health care

God bless
 
Us brits (UK) simply don’t understand why you in USA are so against having a health care system fair for all like our NHS.Most of us in UK care very much for our vulnerable,poor, disadvantaged,unemployed ,disabled, elderly and so and we know, no matter what ,we will all get the same treatment.No-one would be turned away.If someone lost their job in your country they lose their benefits (meaning private insurance health care) and it must be a great worry to you all.Do you all (US citizens) worry about your poor homeless unemployed disabled elderly vulnerable etc when they cannot get the medicine for their children for example or for themselves as you will witness here on CAF frequently especially in the Prayer Forum?
I understand it is the unknown and you may have read adverse media in recent times but our NHS is extremely successful and we are all so proud of it and grateful to have it available to us.
In Canada I know they also have an excellent health care system.

I hope this does not spark more inflammatory reaction as I know in the past whenever this topic has arisen before some very impolite posters and yes they are catholic, can be very rude.
I wish you all in USA well with your mid term elections and hope you all get what it is you are voting for.
May God bless each one of you to make the right decisions for your health care

God bless
Well, let’s start here:

dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1279214/Weve-poured-billions-NHS-pioneers-medical-research-Britain-sick-woman-Europe.html

Either this article is outright lying, or perhaps Brits have gotten used to the sub-standard care they receive for outrageous cost and think it adequate and normal. When pets can receive better and more prompt health care than people, then the system is seriously flawed.

Here’s another reason why we may be a bit uneasy about messing with our system in the U.S.:

ncpa.org/pub/ba596

If there is indeed something better in other countries, I’d like to see some data. BTW, I was born and raised in socialist Poland so I have some limited experience with other systems (by no means do I claim to be an expert).

To answer the OP, I like the idea that you pay for services or purchase insurance. It’s as simple as that.
 
Three reasons – “why not go to a socialized medical system” – for your considerations from US perspective…for your “Brit” (name removed by moderator)uts.
PAX CHRISTI
  1. Original Sin.
  2. Atheistic-Humanist society/government/culture of death.
  3. A BBC 2007 News Report (UK system ain’t all it is said to be…but that is no surprise…its government run)
    .**‘Serious flaws’ in UK health care
    **
    Code:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40083000/jpg/_40083398_203op.jpg                 UK health care has been changing in recent years
         
                                         **People in the UK face longer waits for non-emergency surgery and  struggle to see GPs out-of-hours compared with other western countries, a  survey says.**  But they are the least likely to have problems with  medical bills and insurance, the poll of over 12,000 patients in seven  countries showed.
Experts said the** study, carried out by the Commonwealth Fund, a US think tank, presented clear challenges to the UK. **

The government said care was improving, but it was aiming to be the best.

Some 55% of UK patients said they had had difficulty getting access to GP care on weekends and nights.
This was** worse than Germany, the Netherlands and New Zealand** and comes amid mounting criticism of the arrangements within the NHS. (US health care certainly has its flaws…but no reason to jump out of the frying pan into the fire!)

“…Over** half of those quizzed also said “fundamental changes” needed to be made to the system, with 15% saying it should be completely rebuilt. **
These were** similar figures to the other countries with the exception of the US **which was much higher and the Netherlands which was lower.
However, UK patients were the least likely to have problems paying medical bills. Just 1% said they had had difficulties, compared to 19% in the US and 8% in both Australia and New Zealand.”

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7071660.stm
 
As i suspected…

May God bless you all in your lives and your views.I bid you well and am not getting into your rude unsulting debates.

God bless
 
As i suspected…

May God bless you all in your lives and your views.I bid you well and am not getting into your rude unsulting debates.

God bless
Rude and insulting? 🤷 Because I showed you that your opinion of “extremely successful” NHS is not based in reality? Bad healthcare for all simply doesn’t compete with superior healthcare for most.
 
I’m really not looking for Web Sites that criticize health care in other countries. I’m also not looking for the opinion of native-born Americans who have never lived in another country. I think I know how a lot of Americans feel about a national health care system.

I would like the opinions of people who grew up in another country besides the USA. I would like to know how they like the medical care that they get when they go to the doctor.

I would also like to know if they think it is much too expensive because of all of the taxes they have to pay.
 
After spending a good deal of time in Singapore I believe they have THE best healthcare system in the world. It requires by law that employers must pay into a private fund that insures their employees, and most medical services are carried out by private hospitals. However unlike America there are no excess payments required. There is a “safety net” that ensures if someone becomes seriously ill or injured the state will pick up the slack in order to prevent situations similar to those in America where a terminal illness can cause bankruptcy. .
 
Because I showed you that your opinion of “extremely successful” NHS is not based in reality?
Reality?

Average perinatal mortality:
UK: 4.60 deaths per 1,000 live births
US: 6.75 deaths per 1,000 live births

Average life expectancy at birth:
UK: 79.8 years
US: 77.9 years

Sources:
US: cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
UK: statistics.gov.uk/glance/#health

Do not believe everything you read in the Daily Mail. Is the NHS perfect? No, I know because I have used it. Is the NHS reasonably good? Yes, I know because I have used it. Is the NHS better than the current American system? Yes, the statistics show it is.

rossum
 
I have family members who live in the UK. And some friends who live in Canada. You are nearly guaranteed to get positive responses, as we all try to defend what we know and have always known. Yet when they can, these relatives try to get here if they aren’t getting great care in their home country.

Other countries do pay much higher taxes, and of course their governments have much more control over their lives. Most if not all of the residents of these countries have known nothing else. Why compare their systems to ours? What is your purpose?

We Americans do not want our government to control every aspect of our lives, especially being in control of our health because then we have surrendered power to bureaucrats and politicians to literally decide who lives and who dies. Sure you can say that everyone gets health care. The reality is different.

And most of these countries also allow and support abortion through their medical systems.
 
Reality?

Average perinatal mortality:
UK: 4.60 deaths per 1,000 live births
US: 6.75 deaths per 1,000 live births

Average life expectancy at birth:
UK: 79.8 years
US: 77.9 years

Sources:
US: cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
UK: statistics.gov.uk/glance/#health
Can you provide some context to show that these are really apples to apples comparisons?
If the definition for live birth is not the same in both countries your statistic is going to be skewed and unusable.

I do not know if the UK follows the WHO guidelines for the definition, but the US does not.
 
Here in Finland we have a government run health care system as part of the same system that handles pensions. This does not mean that there is not a parallel private system that people can access, but most choose not to.

I teach English and yesterday we got into a brief discussion in the class I teach for the top management group of a medium sized company that does international business. These entrepreneurial young men could not understand why a congress and president who have tried to bring the US closer to world standards could be so soundly defeated at the polls.

We admitted that in non-life threatening situations there can be some waiting for certain specialists, but medications are subsidized and discomfort is controlled, home care arranged, etc. If it is a genuine emergency it does not matter what one’s financial or employment state is, they get care even specialized surgical care and any charges are minimal for those with means and free for those without.

In the past year I have suffered from fairly severe muscle pain at various times. I probably would have gotten a quicker diagnosis if I were more of a complainer but we Finnish men tend to be a bit too stoic. I got x-rays, medications, and physiotherapy. I have paid a total of 33 Euros for my doctor’s visits (€11/visit for the first 3/ calendar year) and €7.50 for consultation with the physiotherapist.

Despite my rather low income, I do not worry about getting care should I need it. BTW I am 63 years old.

Does the Finnish system work? There are few here who look at the American system with favour, and they are almost all young millionaires. Sure we have our discussions about cost-benefit analysis, but the consensus is that we keep the current system and try to improve it along the edges where it does fray on occasion.

Blessings to you all,
 
I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies to my question. I’m really beginning to wonder about our medical system here in the USA. We are about the only civilized country in the world who hasn’t had some form of national medical insurance. The laws recently passed by Obama are far from perfect, but at least they are a step in the right direction. Now, there are many who want to repeal these laws!

Fortunately, I have Medicare, which I am really grateful for. It just puzzles me why I would have to wait 65 years to have a guaranteed right to buy medical insurance where pre-existing conditions are not considered.

I really feel sorry for people who have been evicted from their homes because they can’t qualify for medical insurance and can’t pay their catastropic medical bills.
 
I really feel sorry for people who have been evicted from their homes because they can’t qualify for medical insurance and can’t pay their catastropic medical bills.
Which pretty much sums up why us Europeans cannot understand why you Americans stick with the system you have.

rossum
 
In the United States, infants born premature or with major medical problems are given extensive medical attention which comes with both higher survival rates in difficult cases [although may contribute to the calculation of overall life span ] and higher costs. Similarly, elderly patients are given very high quality medical treatment. However, one result is a distortion of the overall statistics on costs and on lifespan. In addition, in the statistics cited above, there were significant omissions, such as much higher survival rates for patients in the United States with such conditions as various types of cancer.

It’s important, however, not to confuse medical care with medical insurance.

Useful insurance programs such as HSA’s with catastrophic coverage are generally denied to individuals for reasons only known to people such as former/ now deceased Senator Ted Kennedy RIP who fought to his death for decades the idea that individuals may purchase their own medical insurance at affordable premiums on the competitive interstate market.

In addition, some state governments not only prohibit individuals from purchasing affordable medical insurance but also restrict certain types of insurance to companies with more than one employee [in other words, sole proprietorships are prohibited from buying “group insurance” which tends to be less expensive]. And some state governments also require mandated coverage for things that purchasers may not want included … which drives up the premiums.

Another issue that the legal system refuses to address is the cost of the lack of tort reform … meaning that there are frivolous lawsuits. In most of the world, the concept of “loser pays” applies to lawsuits, with insurance being available to cover costs of litigation. In the United States, the concept of “deep pockets” pays which drives up the cost of medical malpractice and related insurance, driving up premiums unnecessarily and also results in so-called “defensive medicine” in which doctors order tests that are unnecessary medically but which are necessary in the event of the need to defend against a lawsuit.

There are issues that do need to be addressed, but the political and legal establishments have adamantly refused to address them. Or they HAVE addressed these issues to the detriment of the patient. The state of Texas passed some form of tort reform that resulted in significant reductions in costs.

In the United States, you can shop around for competitive insurance policies, customized insurance policies, and competitive interstate policies and competitive premiums for everything … house, commercial, boat and maritime, motorcycle, aviation, fire, liability, auto, comprehensive, umbrella, … except medical insurance.

The current medical insurance structure in the United States is a residue of World War II, when owing to wage controls, employers lobbied to be able to offer medical insurance as a benefit in order to keep valuable employees. This has resulted in terrible distortion over the years. AND, the Federal tax structure severely penalizes individuals and rewards employers as regarding medical expenses and medical insurance costs. It would only take a minor change to allow individuals to eliminate the tax penalties. In addition, truly tragic cases could be paid for by some form of tax credits administered by hospitals; the individuals, once vetted, would not pay anything and the hospitals would take care of all the paperwork.

[In fact, why is it that HOSPITALS cannot sell medical insurance; should be a piece of cake.] Individuals should be able to buy any kind of medical insurance they want from any insuror including your neighborhood hospital, and have the policy fully transferable in the event you move to some other location.

The insurance industry has complained that they CAN offer low cost, competitive medical insurance [and in many cases they do], but that the policy offerings are unfairly restricted to those people fortunate enough to live only in certain states or work for certain employers.
 
Found this on the internet:

" … health care isn’t free in Germany, they pay 19% sales tax to fund it."
 
In the United States, infants born premature or with major medical problems are given extensive medical attention which comes with both higher survival rates in difficult cases [although may contribute to the calculation of overall life span ] and higher costs. Similarly, elderly patients are given very high quality medical treatment. However, one result is a distortion of the overall statistics on costs and on lifespan. In addition, in the statistics cited above, there were significant omissions, such as much higher survival rates for patients in the United States with such conditions as various types of cancer.

It’s important, however, not to confuse medical care with medical insurance.

Useful insurance programs such as HSA’s with catastrophic coverage are generally denied to individuals for reasons only known to people such as former/ now deceased Senator Ted Kennedy RIP who fought to his death for decades the idea that individuals may purchase their own medical insurance at affordable premiums on the competitive interstate market.

In addition, some state governments not only prohibit individuals from purchasing affordable medical insurance but also restrict certain types of insurance to companies with more than one employee [in other words, sole proprietorships are prohibited from buying “group insurance” which tends to be less expensive]. And some state governments also require mandated coverage for things that purchasers may not want included … which drives up the premiums.

Another issue that the legal system refuses to address is the cost of the lack of tort reform … meaning that there are frivolous lawsuits. In most of the world, the concept of “loser pays” applies to lawsuits, with insurance being available to cover costs of litigation. In the United States, the concept of “deep pockets” pays which drives up the cost of medical malpractice and related insurance, driving up premiums unnecessarily and also results in so-called “defensive medicine” in which doctors order tests that are unnecessary medically but which are necessary in the event of the need to defend against a lawsuit.

There are issues that do need to be addressed, but the political and legal establishments have adamantly refused to address them. Or they HAVE addressed these issues to the detriment of the patient. The state of Texas passed some form of tort reform that resulted in significant reductions in costs.

In the United States, you can shop around for competitive insurance policies, customized insurance policies, and competitive interstate policies and competitive premiums for everything … house, commercial, boat and maritime, motorcycle, aviation, fire, liability, auto, comprehensive, umbrella, … except medical insurance.

The current medical insurance structure in the United States is a residue of World War II, when owing to wage controls, employers lobbied to be able to offer medical insurance as a benefit in order to keep valuable employees. This has resulted in terrible distortion over the years. AND, the Federal tax structure severely penalizes individuals and rewards employers as regarding medical expenses and medical insurance costs. It would only take a minor change to allow individuals to eliminate the tax penalties. In addition, truly tragic cases could be paid for by some form of tax credits administered by hospitals; the individuals, once vetted, would not pay anything and the hospitals would take care of all the paperwork.

[In fact, why is it that HOSPITALS cannot sell medical insurance; should be a piece of cake.] Individuals should be able to buy any kind of medical insurance they want from any insuror including your neighborhood hospital, and have the policy fully transferable in the event you move to some other location.

The insurance industry has complained that they CAN offer low cost, competitive medical insurance [and in many cases they do], but that the policy offerings are unfairly restricted to those people fortunate enough to live only in certain states or work for certain employers.
Excellent, Monte.👍
 
In the United States, infants born premature or with major medical problems are given extensive medical attention which comes with both higher survival rates in difficult cases [although may contribute to the calculation of overall life span ] and higher costs. Similarly, elderly patients are given very high quality medical treatment. However, one result is a distortion of the overall statistics on costs and on lifespan. In addition, in the statistics cited above, there were significant omissions, such as much higher survival rates for patients in the United States with such conditions as various types of cancer.

It’s important, however, not to confuse medical care with medical insurance.

Useful insurance programs such as HSA’s with catastrophic coverage are generally denied to individuals for reasons only known to people such as former/ now deceased Senator Ted Kennedy RIP who fought to his death for decades the idea that individuals may purchase their own medical insurance at affordable premiums on the competitive interstate market.

In addition, some state governments not only prohibit individuals from purchasing affordable medical insurance but also restrict certain types of insurance to companies with more than one employee [in other words, sole proprietorships are prohibited from buying “group insurance” which tends to be less expensive]. And some state governments also require mandated coverage for things that purchasers may not want included … which drives up the premiums.

Another issue that the legal system refuses to address is the cost of the lack of tort reform … meaning that there are frivolous lawsuits. In most of the world, the concept of “loser pays” applies to lawsuits, with insurance being available to cover costs of litigation. In the United States, the concept of “deep pockets” pays which drives up the cost of medical malpractice and related insurance, driving up premiums unnecessarily and also results in so-called “defensive medicine” in which doctors order tests that are unnecessary medically but which are necessary in the event of the need to defend against a lawsuit.

There are issues that do need to be addressed, but the political and legal establishments have adamantly refused to address them. Or they HAVE addressed these issues to the detriment of the patient. The state of Texas passed some form of tort reform that resulted in significant reductions in costs.

In the United States, you can shop around for competitive insurance policies, customized insurance policies, and competitive interstate policies and competitive premiums for everything … house, commercial, boat and maritime, motorcycle, aviation, fire, liability, auto, comprehensive, umbrella, … except medical insurance.

The current medical insurance structure in the United States is a residue of World War II, when owing to wage controls, employers lobbied to be able to offer medical insurance as a benefit in order to keep valuable employees. This has resulted in terrible distortion over the years. AND, the Federal tax structure severely penalizes individuals and rewards employers as regarding medical expenses and medical insurance costs. It would only take a minor change to allow individuals to eliminate the tax penalties. In addition, truly tragic cases could be paid for by some form of tax credits administered by hospitals; the individuals, once vetted, would not pay anything and the hospitals would take care of all the paperwork.

[In fact, why is it that HOSPITALS cannot sell medical insurance; should be a piece of cake.] Individuals should be able to buy any kind of medical insurance they want from any insuror including your neighborhood hospital, and have the policy fully transferable in the event you move to some other location.

The insurance industry has complained that they CAN offer low cost, competitive medical insurance [and in many cases they do], but that the policy offerings are unfairly restricted to those people fortunate enough to live only in certain states or work for certain employers.
Very well done. You did leave out the not inconsequential number of people who get treatment at emergency rooms and in hospitals and pay NOTHING for it. We are generous to a fault in the US but the legislation that a person cannot be turned away from a medical facility without at least being triaged has really hurt hospitals when we have a large population of illegal aliens.

Tort reform would work wonders, as would solving the problem with our porous borders.

Health insurance is not the same as availability of health care. The two terms have gotten incredibly blurred during the current administration’s push to control our lives from cradle to grave. We already have many social programs that pay the cost of medical care - two of which are Medicaid and Medicare. It’s not as if we have just turned out backs on people who need medical attention. The bill that was pushed through Congress has already made the situation much worse by cutting down on the amount doctors can get back from the government for treating indigent patients. It’s going to get worse unless this atrocious bill can be de-funded.

There are solutions to a problem with many factors involved, but what happened with this bill is not one of the solutions.
 
Another issue that the legal system refuses to address is the cost of the lack of tort reform … meaning that there are frivolous lawsuits. In most of the world, the concept of “loser pays” applies to lawsuits, with insurance being available to cover costs of litigation. In the United States, the concept of “deep pockets” pays which drives up the cost of medical malpractice and related insurance, driving up premiums unnecessarily and also results in so-called “defensive medicine” in which doctors order tests that are unnecessary medically but which are necessary in the event of the need to defend against a lawsuit.

There are issues that do need to be addressed, but the political and legal establishments have adamantly refused to address them. Or they HAVE addressed these issues to the detriment of the patient. The state of Texas passed some form of tort reform that resulted in significant reductions in costs.
Wow Monte, you sound like an erudite objective policy wonk whose points are supported by an intimidating stack of peer-reviewed papers. :rolleyes:

Monte, the OP was not soliciting a rant from a conservative American outsider who pontificates on the inefficiency of government-funded health care and extols the free market because of its allegedly ability to provide more choices to the consumer.
I’m really not looking for Web Sites that criticize health care in other countries. I’m also not looking for the opinion of native-born Americans who have never lived in another country. I think I know how a lot of Americans feel about a national health care system.
I would like the opinions of people who grew up in another country besides the USA. I would like to know how they like the medical care that they get when they go to the doctor.
I would also like to know if they think it is much too expensive because of all of the taxes they have to pay.
Predictable, those sympathetic to your views only posted nothing but adulation since your post has the semblance of an empirically supported argument that confirms their prejudices.

The allegation that “defensive medicine” significantly contributes to the overall cost of health care in the United States is not supported by empirical evidence.
Concerns about reducing the rate of growth of health expenditures have reignited interest in medical liability reforms and their potential to save money by reducing the practice of defensive medicine. It is not easy to estimate the costs of the medical liability system, however. This article identifies the various components of liability system costs, generates national estimates for each component, and discusses the level of evidence available to support the estimates. Overall annual medical liability system costs, including defensive medicine, are estimated to be $55.6 billion in 2008 dollars, or 2.4 percent of total health care spending.
content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/9/1569
In this paper we present the costs of defensive medicine in thirty-five clinical specialties to determine whether malpractice liability reforms would greatly reduce health care costs. Defensive medicine includes tests and procedures ordered by physicians principally to reduce perceived threats of medical malpractice liability. The practice is commonly assumed to increase health care costs. The results of studies of the costs of defensive medicine have been inconsistent. We found that estimated savings resulting from a 10 percent decline in medical malpractice premiums would be less than 1 percent of total medical care costs in every specialty. These savings are lower than most previous estimates, and they suggest that the presumed impact of tort reform on health care costs may be overstated.
content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/9/1569

Also there is no evidence, besides information posted a websites promoting tort reform, that tort reform in Texas has lowered health costs.

But it is not my job to thoroughly refute claims; it is your responsibility to defend them.
 
Us brits (UK) simply don’t understand why you in USA are so against having a health care system fair for all like our NHS.
A health care system that can guarantee the absolute best health care for absolutely every man women and child is a monumental task.

One that not a single country has been able to succeed in.

In the US, (at least among the circles I live in) the people know this. And they understand that because of this fact, what starts as a noble goal of “the best health care for all” turns into “substandard but more achievable health care for all but the best for the absolute richest that can afford it themselves.”

The best for those that can afford it is something we already have, thank you very much. Substandard for everyone else however is not. Thanks to the insurance industry we have, the best is available to many more that generally could not afford it.

So why should we give up a health care system that is broken in one way for one that is broken in a much worse way?
The majority in this country already get the best health care, why lower that to a minority?

Why give up a car with a flat tire for one with a blown engine?
🤷
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top