Health Care reform from a Doctors perspective

[Arwen037]

You are taking rare cases and trying to say that’s how it is for everyone. I don’t think you should destroy everyone’s healthcare for a the small percentage of people who are born with a condition that disables them enough they can’t work, can’t pay for meds, who have parents who don’t take care of their child, and which prevents them from being able to get insurance. If people didn’t abuse charity and government aid then there is no reason someone wouldn’t be helping you.

Yes, some people get a bad break, and again, if aid wasn’t abused they would have access to aid.

Yes, genetics affect your predisposition to certain diseases. I have a family history of immune deficiency, diabetes, asthma, cancer, heart disease, and auto immune diseases. It means that I have to watch my health better than most people. It means I take special care to avoid carcinogens. It means I need to devote more time to cardiac training. And all this even though I have insurance. Just because it’s in my genetics doesn’t mean I have to suffer these diseases for the most part.

 

[St_Francis]

You are taking rare cases and trying to say that’s how it is for everyone. I don’t think you should destroy everyone’s healthcare for a the small percentage of people who are born with a condition that disables them enough they can’t work, can’t pay for meds, who have parents who don’t take care of their child, and which prevents them from being able to get insurance. If people didn’t abuse charity and government aid then there is no reason someone wouldn’t be helping you.

Yes, some people get a bad break, and again, if aid wasn’t abused they would have access to aid.

Yes, genetics affect your predisposition to certain diseases. I have a family history of immune deficiency, diabetes, asthma, cancer, heart disease, and auto immune diseases. It means that I have to watch my health better than most people. It means I take special care to avoid carcinogens. It means I need to devote more time to cardiac training. And all this even though I have insurance. Just because it’s in my genetics doesn’t mean I have to suffer these diseases for the most part.

I am not saying that we should go for the current proposals to change our health insurance situation, I am just saying that we shouldn’t judge people.

I am against the current proposals for several different reasons.

 

[royal_archer]

Back to the original post…

The way the money flows through “the system” doesn’t make any sense (to me). It is not fair, equitable, rationale, and it is not possible to base it on free-market principles.

The health care distribution machine is so large, that people can find a place to sneak in and leach off of it disproportionately from what they contribute. It is the moral equivalent of wartime profiteering. That is why doctors don’t make what they should.

What follows is a rant on those of you that think someone is taking “your money”…

Why people think that this is somehow welfare I don’t understand. Everyone needs a certain amount of healthcare in their life (preventative), needs the sick people around them to get care (to avoid pandemics, etc), and needs access to advanced care if they actually get sick or injured. No one is spared this need. How does someone agree with taxes supporting fire departments and then say taxes for healthcare don’t make sense. Besides, how productive can a sick person be? Some people are on welfare because they are simply too sick to work. That is a double negative on the economy that could be fixed.

Plus, it can literally kill a small business with 100 employees if 1 person needs a transplant, or has a kid with cancer. Done, company gone. How is employer provided benefits the right way to do things? It’s not. It is just something companies were asked to do in the short term (back in the 50’s by Truman) until society figured out a better way. You can’t be “for Small Business” and against health care reform.

-wade

If you own property you pay taxes for fire and police. All property owners contribute and all receive relatively proportional bennefit. Unlike socialized medicine which penalizes workers and subsidizes (encourages) non workers.

 

[royal_archer]

then why not have a user pays system for roads, fire departments and policing? It will avoid that nasty transfer of wealth from those who less likely to use these services.

Ever hear of toll roads or toll bridges?

 

[royal_archer]

Hi everyone. Sorry, I’m just going to throw this in. It’s not meant as an attack on anyone or anyone’s beliefs, opinions, etc. I’m not sure if this has been discussed yet in this thread.

What about people who cannot purchase health insurance?? Note I am not talking about an inability to pay whatever health insurance would cost. What I mean is that no insurance company will sell them a policy. If a health insurance company finds out that a person who is applying for coverage has, say diabetes, it doesn’t make any difference whether that person can pay or not. Insurance companies absolutely will not sell policies to people who have diabetes.

Also, what about medical conditions which are not covered by health insurance? A good example of this is TMJD (temporomandibular joint disorder). Medical insurance does not pay for this disease because it is a “dental” problem. Dental insurance does not pay for this disease because it is a “medical” condition.

Currently the only option available to these people is Medicare.

I’m not saying if I think a national health insurance plan is a good idea, mainly because I don’t know. I’m just pointing something out. That’s all.

When you get hired on at a company that has health insurance or join a group that offers insurance to it’s members you can avoid those concerns. Now why aren’t all these liberal groups who are pushing for socialized health care forming groups with group rates that can offer coverage to these people who can not get coverage as individuals.

 

[royal_archer]

What are people supposed to do when they are BORN with a condition. THere is no way to be covered BEFORE one is born, nevermind the fact insurance is completely out of your control before you’re of legal age.

I was declined for pre-existing conditions as soon as I was a legal adult at 18, I can’t be the only person this has happened to. What are these people supposed to do? LIFE is a pre-existing condition

And who would propose such a plan? Half the GOP wants to dismantle medicare entirely, not to mention medicaid. MEdicare is aimed at older folks and end of life. People in the prime of their life are not what’s in mind for the kind of system medicare is.

You are dealing with the extremely rare case. If there were not so many leaches in the system, more of the abundant charity would be available to cover those who actually needed it.

 

[wade_a_wilson]

If you own property you pay taxes for fire and police. All property owners contribute and all receive relatively proportional bennefit. Unlike socialized medicine which penalizes workers and subsidizes (encourages) non workers.

I see the point you are trying to make, but I don’t agree. Property owners don’t get “proportional benefit” from the fire department. They perceive a benefit because IF they ever need it, they know the engines and ambulances will be there for them.

My point was that I perceive (and my argument is that everyone else should too) a benefit of having an X-Ray machine, CAT scanner, Operating Room, and ER in my local county, just in case I ever need that stuff. So I don’t see tax support for these things as “welfare”.

The X-Ray machine is a sunk cost. It cost $1 Million on January 1st every year, regardless of how much it is used. I should, however, pay a user fee for the technician, film, and radiologist if I actually use it.

That is how public ambulance systems work right now. Property taxes pay for the vehicles, facilities, maintenance, training. You get a bill for the crew time & expertise, disposables consumed, and wear and tear on the medical equipment needed.

I am trying to get others to consider the silliness of trying to bill “each time users” for health care infrastructure costs. It creates a “fake” billing system that is flawed by design.

-wade

 

[royal_archer]

And I know a lot of poor people who eat bad diets because they don’t really know what else to do and that is what they can afford. Macaroni and cheese and the like. I knew a lady in her 50s who’d grown up in a farm community where everyone fried everything, and all she knew was how to fry, and that she wasn’t supposed to eat fried foods.

Yeah, great, all of you have been given a great deal, you’ve been given intelligence, education, chances, the good luck of not having everything fall apart around you through no fault of your own.

Every citizen is given a free highschool education where this stuff is addressed. If they have completed highschool they know better, if not and they are not capable of knowing better then they need someone assigned to watch over them.

 

[royal_archer]

I see the point you are trying to make, but I don’t agree. Property owners don’t get “proportional benefit” from the fire department. They perceive a benefit because IF they ever need it, they know the engines and ambulances will be there for them.

My point was that I perceive (and my argument is that everyone else should too) a benefit of having an X-Ray machine, CAT scanner, Operating Room, and ER in my local county, just in case I ever need that stuff. So I don’t see tax support for these things as “welfare”.

The X-Ray machine is a sunk cost. It cost $1 Million on January 1st every year, regardless of how much it is used. I should, however, pay a user fee for the technician, film, and radiologist if I actually use it.

That is how public ambulance systems work right now. Property taxes pay for the vehicles, facilities, maintenance, training. You get a bill for the crew time & expertise, disposables consumed, and wear and tear on the medical equipment needed.

I am trying to get others to consider the silliness of trying to bill “each time users” for health care infrastructure costs. It creates a “fake” billing system that is flawed by design.

-wade

I have no problem if everyone paid a flat rate for access to a community facility. However with the fire department, if you don’t pay your fair share of the tax, they take your house. If they were to take a simmilar approach to health care, it would be reasonable to pool the cost over the community. However, you have individuals who are using the system (both the fixed assetts and the variable costs, who are not contributing and have no intention on contributing because they know they will get to use the resoures whether they pay or not and because no effort is being made to force them to contribute.

 

[St_Francis]

Every citizen is given a free highschool education where this stuff is addressed. If they have completed highschool they know better, if not and they are not capable of knowing better then they need someone assigned to watch over them.

It has been some time since they had home ec in most schools.

 

[Arwen037]

My point was that I perceive (and my argument is that everyone else should too) a benefit of having an X-Ray machine, CAT scanner, Operating Room, and ER in my local county, just in case I ever need that stuff. So I don’t see tax support for these things as “welfare”.

The X-Ray machine is a sunk cost. It cost $1 Million on January 1st every year, regardless of how much it is used. I should, however, pay a user fee for the technician, film, and radiologist if I actually use it.

That is how public ambulance systems work right now. Property taxes pay for the vehicles, facilities, maintenance, training. You get a bill for the crew time & expertise, disposables consumed, and wear and tear on the medical equipment needed.

I am trying to get others to consider the silliness of trying to bill “each time users” for health care infrastructure costs. It creates a “fake” billing system that is flawed by design.

But that’s not what we’re talking about for the most part. We’re talking about doctor’s visits, which is a specific use of time that should be compensated. We’re talking about drugs, which are consumable products. We’re talking about the surgeon’s time. If all the healthcare we were asked to pay were “sunk costs” then it wouldn’t be such a problem.

 

[pathia]

You are dealing with the extremely rare case. If there were not so many leaches in the system, more of the abundant charity would be available to cover those who actually needed it.

Abundant charity? Like the ones that wouldn’t even let me into their shelters when I was homeless in the dead of winter? Give me a break. Just because it’s there doesn’t meant they want to give it to anyone/everyone that’s actually in need, especially if they’re part of some subgroup they despise. I was denied charity, just because they did not agree with my ‘lifestyle’.

 

[wade_a_wilson]

Arwen37 -

I was under the impression that the majority of the health care cost is for the infrastructure and advanced equipment / capabilities. I could be way off on that.

Are you aware of a source that breaks the total cost down by category?

Thanks,

-wade

 

[aspawloski4th]

It has been some time since they had home ec in most schools.

Same here! I’d also add that I have in my experiences never heard of a male taking home ec, it was always a girl’s class without exception.

 

[amichelles08]

There should be no fine print, no life time caps. It would be immoral for a company to keep taking his money if he reached the lifetime cap. I don’t care about percentages, a billion dollars is a billion dollars whether it 1% profit or if it99% profit.

I am surprised, if you are Catholic anyway, that you would take so much care as to what a company makes. The Catholic Church does not wish us to care about such things as profit others might make, Such behaviour only creates anxiety and desire in us.

A company is made in order to make money, not to employ people or create just a service to provide people. A company must make money, the more the better,
Even you must undertsand this.

 

[amichelles08]

Abundant charity? Like the ones that wouldn’t even let me into their shelters when I was homeless in the dead of winter? Give me a break. Just because it’s there doesn’t meant they want to give it to anyone/everyone that’s actually in need, especially if they’re part of some subgroup they despise. I was denied charity, just because they did not agree with my ‘lifestyle’.

The Catholic Church does require charity from us Catholics, as individuals. We should not, and do not require such charity from goverment. True charity comes from us, not the faceless facade that is gov’t.
Government does not require all people to be sheltered and clothed because it simply cannot do so.
Others, people, should be held responsible for such behaviour.

That is why we must stay active ourselves, and improve our own lives (monetarily and spiritually) so that we can fulfill our Christian duties and help those who need it, such as you were. I pray that you are doing much better now, however I sense an anger in you that I am saddened by, one which says that one was owed.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I am surprised, if you are Catholic anyway, that you would take so much care as to what a company makes. The Catholic Church does not wish us to care about such things as profit others might make, Such behaviour only creates anxiety and desire in us.

A company is made in order to make money, not to employ people or create just a service to provide people. A company must make money, the more the better,
Even you must undertsand this.

When it comes at the cost of others I do care. Bill Gates makes tons of profit, but Windows is not in accessable to the masses, and his comapny deals with the public in a very above board. I quite frankly don’t really care what he makes. As for health insurance companies with their fine print and bate and switch games I do care as well as you should. They should either be forced to knock it off, or done away with and replaced with a different system. There is more honesty in the mob than there is in the health insurance industry.

 

[Arwen037]

Same here! I’d also add that I have in my experiences never heard of a male taking home ec, it was always a girl’s class without exception.

They don’t so much have home ec any more but I’ve never seen a school that doesn’t require Health. Which includes exercise and diet education. Also many school offer what our school called “Food & Nutrition”, a cooking class. A TON of guys took it because it was an easy A class where they got to eat.

 

[wabrams]

The X-Ray machine is a sunk cost. It cost $1 Million on January 1st every year, regardless of how much it is used. I should, however, pay a user fee for the technician, film, and radiologist if I actually use it.

Afraid I don’t follow you here, especially the part I bolded.

 

[royal_archer]

It has been some time since they had home ec in most schools.

But that stuff was always covered in basic health classes.