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royal_archer
Guest
So why are you demonizing those who are willing to do the work people want?
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A
aspawloski4th
Guest
Im not demonizing anyone in that sentence. Im saying since its so important to you for everything under the sun to be a business, we then should privatize the fire depratments.So why are you demonizing those who are willing to do the work people want?
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wabrams
Guest
There are alot of opnions I don’t agree with on this board, but you don’t see me writing on here all the time or making comments all of the time.And the point I made went in one ear and out the other. The point I made has been implied all over the place around here. Read between the lines. Everyone who doesn’t like you opinions you seem to get narly with, so I take it with a grain of salt.
So you think a private practice should disclose how much each of its doctors make? It’s not secrecy, it’s just not anyone’s business.Secrecy in how much one makes at a given job is where much corruption begins.
R
royal_archer
Guest
FYI I am not the one with the hang up with buisness. I just feel we need to let people be free to pursue what is right for them. with out others leaching off of them.Im not demonizing anyone in that sentence. Im saying since its so important to you for everything under the sun to be a business, we then should privatize the fire depratments.
A
aspawloski4th
Guest
As if thats an important issue.There are alot of opnions I don’t agree with on this board, but you don’t see me writing on here all the time or making comments all of the time.
So you think a private practice should disclose how much each of its doctors make? It’s not secrecy, it’s just not anyone’s business.
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wabrams
Guest
If it’s not then why did you bring it up?As if thats an important issue.
A
aspawloski4th
Guest
My opinion says if youv’e got to hide what you make on your occupation, you have something to hide. I really don’t care what doctors make anyway. I care more about what they insurance comapanie are making on people backs.If it’s not then why did you bring it up?
I
Irish_Catholic_1
Guest
No REAL American would even want a government handout.
American culture has its roots in the pioneer spirit, staking out your claim on the frontier, and rising or falling by the sweat of you brow.
European culture has its roots in knaves and serfs living on some feudal king’s land at his pleasure, and the king protecting them from marauders.
Government healthcare is un-American
I don’t either. But the differences still exist somewhere deep in our psychi I should thinkThe cultures you mention were far different back in those days. Life was short and not very valued back in those days. When down to brass tacks it was survival for survival’s sake in both systems. I quite frankly don’t care to go back to those days.
W
wabrams
Guest
Define what you mean by “hide;” do you feel it is someone saying “none of your business” or people purposefully decieving? I’m asking a serious question, so please don’t think I’m being flippant.My opinion says if youv’e got to hide what you make on your occupation, you have something to hide. I really don’t care what doctors make anyway. I care more about what they insurance comapanie are making on people backs.
As to what insurance companies make, it’s no more than $200 annually, and that’s on “cadillac” plans. I think the average is around $125/year. With regards to their large profits, that comes from insuring a ton of people; you know, make up in volume.
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wabrams
Guest
If they are GP’s, peds, or internists, they most certainly aren’t in it for the money. I believe the average GP makes $125k/yr after overhead expenses are paid.If ALL doctors became doctors because they are dedicated to making other people’s lives better as you wrote, then why are you focusing so much on the money? If a lower salary weeds out some people who are in medicine for the money than helping patients, Alleluia! I have seen plenty of doctors with that mentality. There is a place in medicine for them in America. They can go into plastic surgery. If you are motivated by money, I suggest you go into plastic surgery. Taxes won’t be used for plastic surgery procedures. You can still be rich Steave.
Amy
K
kfinstad
Guest
Why do you think, that 125 k U.S.D.'s / yr. is not very much money? For a family, of nine, 125 k U.S.D.'s is three times more than the 2008 Federal Poverty Thresh-hold: the average family size in America is less than, two, now–I believe. In order for a 125 k U.S.D. / yr. salary to be regarded as something akin to poverty: it would need to be the earnings for a family of twenty-four children. Do most doctors, (Earning as much as you have stated.), have at least, twenty-four children? Or are you saying, it isn’t very much money, because most doctors earning such an amount, as salary expense, are too incompetent to be able to increase their earnings through investments, interest bearing savings accounts, etc.?If they are GP’s, peds, or internists, they most certainly aren’t in it for the money. I believe the average GP makes $125k/yr after overhead expenses are paid.
I’m half-ways tempted to accuse you of some, sort, of unmitigated gaul.
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wabrams
Guest
Well, they come out of school with at least that much debt, sometimes much more, so I think they would like to at least make as much a year as they owe. Second, most doctors I know invest the heck out of their money. Third, your post is a classic example of class warfare. Don’t like how much they make? Go back to school, become an MD, and decide that’s how much you want to make, no matter your speciality. Try neurosurgery; when you are finally on your own while approaching your mid-30’s you’ll want to make more than $125k/yr to make up for lost time and money.Why do you think, that 125 k U.S.D.'s / yr. is not very much money? For a family, of nine, 125 k U.S.D.'s is three times more than the 2008 Federal Poverty Thresh-hold: the average family size in America is less than, two, now–I believe. In order for a 125 k U.S.D. / yr. salary to be regarded as something akin to poverty: it would need to be the earnings for a family of twenty-four children. Do most doctors, (Earning as much as you have stated.), have at least, twenty-four children? Or are you saying, it isn’t very much money, because most doctors earning such an amount, as salary expense, are too incompetent to be able to increase their earnings through investments, interest bearing savings accounts, etc.?
Then do it; I can’t stand empty threats. But please explain to me why you wish to accuse me of being French.I’m half-ways tempted to accuse you of some, sort, of unmitigated gaul.
E
everblooming
Guest
For some bizarre reason that I don’t understand, mainstream Catholics have demonized government run health care progams. Medicare is a government run program. Is that so horrible? The Fire Department is another fine example. Certain things such as fires, crime and health should not be regulated by the free market. The free market is based soley on profit and when it comes to fires, crime and our health - making money shouldn’t be the #1 priority. I highly doubt if Jesus were a human walking the earth today that he would be preaching for us to keep our private health care system going so that doctors, insurance companies and pharmacuetical companies can continue to make profits. I think he’d be for access for everyone including the poor.Im not demonizing anyone in that sentence. Im saying since its so important to you for everything under the sun to be a business, we then should privatize the fire depratments.
B
Bluegoat
Guest
Several people have given this answer as to why health care in the US would be more expensive than in other places.
I am finding this odd, because people seem to understand that the amount of people paying into a health insurance program is directly related to the amount of profits, and does not always mean each individual is paying a lot.
Yes, the US has a large population, so one would expect that the overall sum spent on health care would be more expensive. That in itself does not mean their expense is greater when compared to the population.
You have to consider the expense per person, or perhaps as a % of GDP, or some other reasonable amount.
In fact, for a larger population, there can be some advantages, for example one way my government keeps drug costs down is by negotiating with drug companies for very large lots. I can’t off the top of my head think of a disadvantage for a larger population, though there may well be some.
Similarly, this was said
And on another note entirely, I think the nasty comments about Canada’s military, besides being not to the point, are, well, nasty. Canada’s military is working serious overtime right now. My unit has not had an operations officer actually present in years, because they are always deployed - and often the Ops WO is gone too. They are going flat out in Afghanistan, and they are getting killed doing it. We DO have a small population, and we are recruiting as fast as we can, and we are still not making up the numbers we need to give some relief to those already there. So give up on the snarky comments.
And then several people have mentioned that insurance companies make only a little profit from each person, but it adds up to big numbers together.One word: POPULATION
I am finding this odd, because people seem to understand that the amount of people paying into a health insurance program is directly related to the amount of profits, and does not always mean each individual is paying a lot.
Yes, the US has a large population, so one would expect that the overall sum spent on health care would be more expensive. That in itself does not mean their expense is greater when compared to the population.
You have to consider the expense per person, or perhaps as a % of GDP, or some other reasonable amount.
In fact, for a larger population, there can be some advantages, for example one way my government keeps drug costs down is by negotiating with drug companies for very large lots. I can’t off the top of my head think of a disadvantage for a larger population, though there may well be some.
Similarly, this was said
which is bizarre to me, since I said nothing about having more individuals with cancer, and it seems largely irrelavent. Cancer rates overall being higher in one place is not due to a larger population, there is some other reason, or more likely a number of reasons.If you look purely at the number of incidences, then ew will always have higher numbers b/c we have a much larger population.
And on another note entirely, I think the nasty comments about Canada’s military, besides being not to the point, are, well, nasty. Canada’s military is working serious overtime right now. My unit has not had an operations officer actually present in years, because they are always deployed - and often the Ops WO is gone too. They are going flat out in Afghanistan, and they are getting killed doing it. We DO have a small population, and we are recruiting as fast as we can, and we are still not making up the numbers we need to give some relief to those already there. So give up on the snarky comments.
I
Irish_Catholic_1
Guest
Yes it is. Its rife with corruption, and it costs about 20x the original estimate. If Obama-care follows in the same way and cost 20x its current estimate, this country will be absolutely destroyed…Medicare is a government run program. Is that so horrible?
No its not. Thats a public sagety issue. If a city burns down millions die. Besides, they don’t provide you with fire insurance, do they.…The Fire Department is another fine example.
S
St_Francis
Guest
Ok, let’s start with medicine, drugs.Several people have given this answer as to why health care in the US would be more expensive than in other places.
And then several people have mentioned that insurance companies make only a little profit from each person, but it adds up to big numbers together.
I am finding this odd, because people seem to understand that the amount of people paying into a health insurance program is directly related to the amount of profits, and does not always mean each individual is paying a lot.
Yes, the US has a large population, so one would expect that the overall sum spent on health care would be more expensive. That in itself does not mean their expense is greater when compared to the population.
You have to consider the expense per person, or perhaps as a % of GDP, or some other reasonable amount.
In fact, for a larger population, there can be some advantages, for example one way my government keeps drug costs down is by negotiating with drug companies for very large lots. I can’t off the top of my head think of a disadvantage for a larger population, though there may well be some.
Similarly, this was said
which is bizarre to me, since I said nothing about having more individuals with cancer, and it seems largely irrelavent. Cancer rates overall being higher in one place is not due to a larger population, there is some other reason, or more likely a number of reasons.
The FDA in the US requires testing to approve a product. The costs to a company for testing can run into the 10s of millions–I do not know if that works out to products approved or each proposed product.
Canada negotiates pretty heavily for the low prices charged there, from volume discounting to the granting of extensions of patent protections. The expenses of creating a new drug are spread out over a longer protection period. No one but a government can negotiate the latter, and our government can’t negotiate at all.
However, as a result of these transnational market interventions, we have a warping of the prices here. On the one hand, it thus becomes possible for drug companies to invest on what would otherwise be too-marginal drugs, but for more common drugs, our prices are higher than they otherwise would be as the companies can’t *rely *on the extension of patent in other nations to completely off-set their r&d costs–another company may come up with a better or at least newer drug earlier than that.
Thus the drug companies *relentlessly *market their drugs here, where they can make a higher profit due to the remoteness of payment (through insurance through employers). It is only now that the price of insurance has gotten so high that employers are paying ever-decreasing proportions that we are becoming aware of the “crisis,” and that people are becoming more aware of the actual prices being charged.
For example, at one point we needed to get a medication that we had to pay for ourselves. The nearest pharmacy charged $200 for a month’s supply–and we did not know for how long we would need it (and this was not a drug still under patent!). Luckily, they called around and were able to find it for under $60 for a month’s supply.
Now, let me explain that the nearest pharmacies to us serve two separate populations: 1. retired people mostly on Medicare, and 2. poor people mostly on Medicaid. Right in our area we happen to have a very high percentage of those two populations. So the prices for certain things are much higher. We also have some sort of mechanised wheelchair company which will *give *you the chair if they can’t get Medicare or Medicaid to pay for it; that’s how sure they are of getting “someone else” to pay for what you order. I know an old man whose children “got” him one of those chairs–he never uses it. He never goes anywhere, and he can walk around in his house just fine. I think he has used it maybe once in the three years he’s had it.
I am totally not against helping people, and in fact, I try to do so. However, I am against government involvement simply because it is so inefficient that it will bankrupt us.
And it will bankrupt you Canadians, and the Europeans, each and every one, because of the demographic situation which exists in each of these nations. We’re all going down the same tube. The fact is that some Americans would like to keep their nation afloat if there’s any chance of doing so.
Canada has always been quite supportive in military terms, and that is wonderful. However, some Americans do not realise that the Canadians should not be lumped in with the Europeans, who have slighted our military while living under its umbrella.And on another note entirely, I think the nasty comments about Canada’s military, besides being not to the point, are, well, nasty. Canada’s military is working serious overtime right now. My unit has not had an operations officer actually present in years, because they are always deployed - and often the Ops WO is gone too. They are going flat out in Afghanistan, and they are getting killed doing it. We DO have a small population, and we are recruiting as fast as we can, and we are still not making up the numbers we need to give some relief to those already there. So give up on the snarky comments.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
You are right. I think that so much of the problem is because of bureaucracy. And there is a lot of fraud which just makes it harder for people who are really hurt. I’m sorry you were turned down but I’m not surprised. And you know, the military doctors were right: it does go away on its own. When you die. For older (over 65) people I honestly think that it is a game. Workers comp takes so long that I am sure people actually die without receiving a penny.I can relate to a lot of what you said. As a teen I too was in dire straights and only wanted a short term loan to get through till I got a job and was turned down told I had to wait two weeks to apply and then two more weeks for the money but after that that If I don’t get a job they could give me money for an extended period of time. That was my intro to welfare 101. (After that I have refused to get on welfare / unemployment)
In the military I injured my neck and can not do physical labor with out extreme pain and headaches. I was denied disibility by the military, the military doctors insisted it would go away on its own.
Now for the real disabled cases, I would be nice if the government actively found jobs for people that they could do with minor or incomplete disabilities and set people up with a councelor who would know the person and make a determination if they are disabled or are not making an effort.
Government agencies tend to think that if a person is breathing he/she isn’t disabled. I was accused of cheating and all I wanted was for all the doctors and whoever was handling my workers comp case and all the attorneys that were involved to just be in my body for one day and go through what I go through. Then they would have believed me.
It is a very complicated problem. I think the system is broken and could be fixed, but I don’t think it will be fixed. From what I have heard it is getting worse.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
It’s funny because I wouldn’t have thought that to be so much money - before I got hurt. Now it sounds like a billion dollars to me.If they are GP’s, peds, or internists, they most certainly aren’t in it for the money. I believe the average GP makes $125k/yr after overhead expenses are paid.
R
royal_archer
Guest
Never heard of taxes? Someone at that income level easily pays 30-40K in taxes not including property and sales taxes.Why do you think, that 125 k U.S.D.'s / yr. is not very much money? For a family, of nine, 125 k U.S.D.'s is three times more than the 2008 Federal Poverty Thresh-hold: the average family size in America is less than, two, now–I believe. In order for a 125 k U.S.D. / yr. salary to be regarded as something akin to poverty: it would need to be the earnings for a family of twenty-four children. Do most doctors, (Earning as much as you have stated.), have at least, twenty-four children? Or are you saying, it isn’t very much money, because most doctors earning such an amount, as salary expense, are too incompetent to be able to increase their earnings through investments, interest bearing savings accounts, etc.?
I’m half-ways tempted to accuse you of some, sort, of unmitigated gaul.
S
Steave
Guest
Well Then Amy I have a challenege for you,Dear Steave,
I am a licensed clinical social worker. I work for the State and many of my colleagues are doctors. You are not getting sympathy from me. The doctors I work with have a great quality of life. They have salaries in the 6 didgets and great benefits. The doctors live in big, beautiful homes; they drive new cars; their kids go to private schools and they take their family on trips with all their paid vacation time.
If ALL doctors became doctors because they are dedicated to making other people’s lives better as you wrote, then why are you focusing so much on the money? If a lower salary weeds out some people who are in medicine for the money than helping patients, Alleluia! I have seen plenty of doctors with that mentality. There is a place in medicine for them in America. They can go into plastic surgery. If you are motivated by money, I suggest you go into plastic surgery. Taxes won’t be used for plastic surgery procedures. You can still be rich Steave.
Amy
I sware I will hold up my end of the bargin, and I gaurentee you wont take your end, becuase If you live up to your end, you’ll be a very rich girl…
If an average adult in africa looked at you, they would not give you any pity, they would say," Shes rich, why does she need any assitance." Over there a dollar a day is good pay, They would also say “She can affor health care can she buy bandaids?”
So here is my challenege to you…
Take your house hold income and decrease it by 20 percent per year, untill you get to 16 percent of you original Because 16 percent of the orgianial is what has happened to the average specialist from the 1980’s.
Example
10K-20%=8000
8000-20%=6400
6400-20%= 5120
5120-20%=4096
And continue till you go down to 16 percent. And when you get there, stay there and I will fully remimberse you plus 100% each year. If you dont make it the 15 years or so Ill still match your payment to Ghana.
Year 1 you lost 2000 dollars, Ill pay back 4000. On top of 2000 to Thomas in Ghana.
What do I want you to do with that money,
I have a friend of mine who lives in ghana, with 1000$ you can feed his village for a month, donate the money to his village,
On top of that I will match the yearly payments. to the tribe in Ghana
I said it here I promise, All I need is full proof, With God as My witness I will do this deal.
This Amy Is not what you have asked doctors to do, It is what you have told Doctors to do, It is what you have had them do, it is what medicare mal-practice, and greedy people who look up at doctors and say, “They live comfortably” and laugh it off.
Dont worry amy, If you look poor and down trodden, I’ll ask an adult who lives on 75 dollars a year, and ask him what he thinks of you. So I have no pitty on you.
(Ohh yea was that what you said to me? Basically)
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