Health Care reform from a Doctors perspective

[Steave]

Oh doctors Get great benifits? What benifits Amy, they provide them out of there own pocket, Unless they work for a hospital, Most doctors contract privately.

All Im asking for is Just compensation, and to not take away what Doctors already have! Its hit the floor of the house more than once now to decrease medicare reimbursment another 29%.

Who would want to become a doctor if you had to go to school for 16 years and get paid 65000.

Not sure but have fun with that amy!

 

[royal_archer]

For some bizarre reason that I don’t understand, mainstream Catholics have demonized government run health care progams. Medicare is a government run program. Is that so horrible? The Fire Department is another fine example. Certain things such as fires, crime and health should not be regulated by the free market. The free market is based soley on profit and when it comes to fires, crime and our health - making money shouldn’t be the #1 priority. I highly doubt if Jesus were a human walking the earth today that he would be preaching for us to keep our private health care system going so that doctors, insurance companies and pharmacuetical companies can continue to make profits. I think he’d be for access for everyone including the poor.

So you don’t think doctors should make a “Profit” a.k.a. salary. pro slavery?

The difference with fire and police is that there is a correlation between those who pay and those who bennefit. Welfare programs including the proposed health care are nothing more than a way for one group to take from another group.

 

[wabrams]

Yes, the US has a large population, so one would expect that the overall sum spent on health care would be more expensive. That in itself does not mean their expense is greater when compared to the population… I can’t off the top of my head think of a disadvantage for a larger population, though there may well be some.

You have to keep one big, important factor in mind: almost half the US doesn’t pay Federal Taxes. None. They get it all back plus some at the end of the year. So you will have the other half of the population paying for their own insurance and the other half of the nations insurance.

which is bizarre to me, since I said nothing about having more individuals with cancer, and it seems largely irrelavent.

You mentioned it in post #71.

 

[everblooming]

Well Then Amy I have a challenege for you,

I sware I will hold up my end of the bargin, and I gaurentee you wont take your end, becuase If you live up to your end, you’ll be a very rich girl…

If an average adult in africa looked at you, they would not give you any pity, they would say," Shes rich, why does she need any assitance." Over there a dollar a day is good pay, They would also say “She can affor health care can she buy bandaids?”

So here is my challenege to you…

Take your house hold income and decrease it by 20 percent per year, untill you get to 16 percent of you original Because 16 percent of the orgianial is what has happened to the average specialist from the 1980’s.

Example
10K-20%=8000
8000-20%=6400
6400-20%= 5120
5120-20%=4096

And continue till you go down to 16 percent. And when you get there, stay there and I will fully remimberse you plus 100% each year. If you dont make it the 15 years or so Ill still match your payment to Ghana.

Year 1 you lost 2000 dollars, Ill pay back 4000. On top of 2000 to Thomas in Ghana.

What do I want you to do with that money,
I have a friend of mine who lives in ghana, with 1000$ you can feed his village for a month, donate the money to his village,

On top of that I will match the yearly payments. to the tribe in Ghana

I said it here I promise, All I need is full proof, With God as My witness I will do this deal.

This Amy Is not what you have asked doctors to do, It is what you have told Doctors to do, It is what you have had them do, it is what medicare mal-practice, and greedy people who look up at doctors and say, “They live comfortably” and laugh it off.

Dont worry amy, If you look poor and down trodden, I’ll ask an adult who lives on 75 dollars a year, and ask him what he thinks of you. So I have no pitty on you.
(Ohh yea was that what you said to me? Basically)

Steave, I saw this and responded when you wrote me privately. I didn’t know you were posting it on line. Why did you write me privately and then only post your comment on the thread?
Steave, I challenge you to find a doctor who makes only $75 a year. And you are welcome to try to find a doctor working in a country that has a socialized health care system. I am sure you still won’t find a doctor who makes only $75 a year. Your challenge is ridiculous and pointless. And your tone is arrogant. Amy

 

[everblooming]

Oh doctors Get great benifits? What benifits Amy, they provide them out of there own pocket, Unless they work for a hospital, Most doctors contract privately.

All Im asking for is Just compensation, and to not take away what Doctors already have! Its hit the floor of the house more than once now to decrease medicare reimbursment another 29%.

Who would want to become a doctor if you had to go to school for 16 years and get paid 65000.

Not sure but have fun with that amy!

Steave,
Maybe you haven’t been reading what I’ve written. It sounds like you would be better off working for a government-run program. Reread what I wrote and really listen, don’t just think about a rebuttal. Try to digest it.

“Dear Steave,
I am a licensed clinical social worker. I work for the State and many of my colleagues are doctors. You are not getting sympathy from me. The doctors I work with have a great quality of life. They have salaries in the 6 didgets and great benefits. The doctors live in big, beautiful homes; they drive new cars; their kids go to private schools and they take their family on trips with all their paid vacation time.”

 

[everblooming]

So you don’t think doctors should make a “Profit” a.k.a. salary. pro slavery?

The difference with fire and police is that there is a correlation between those who pay and those who bennefit. Welfare programs including the proposed health care are nothing more than a way for one group to take from another group.

Royal Archer,

I did not write anyting remotely like that. I’m going to do another cut and paste of the first paragraph of my original message:

“Dear Steave,
I am a licensed clinical social worker. I work for the State and many of my colleagues are doctors. You are not getting sympathy from me. The doctors I work with have a great quality of life. They have salaries in the 6 didgets and great benefits. The doctors live in big, beautiful homes; they drive new cars; their kids go to private schools and they take their family on trips with all their paid vacation time.”

And you need to look at what you wrote. I have worked with plenty of people who do not pay taxes who have needed the police and/or fire department. How come you think that only those who pay taxes benefit from the police and fire department? They respond when there is an emergency call regardless of the persons ability to pay. They don’t check to see first if the person pays taxes (or pays insurance for police assistance/ firemen assistance.
Amy

 

[royal_archer]

Royal Archer,

I did not write anyting remotely like that. I’m going to do another cut and paste of the first paragraph of my original message:

You did post this “I highly doubt if Jesus were a human walking the earth today that he would be preaching for us to keep our private health care system going so that doctors, insurance companies and pharmacuetical companies can continue to make profits. I think he’d be for access for everyone including the poor.”

If you are advocating doctors not make profits are you advocating we no longer have people employed in that field or are you saying we should force them to work for free. Not allowing someone to keep the fruits of their labor is slavery.

 

[St_Francis]

Royal Archer,

I did not write anyting remotely like that. I’m going to do another cut and paste of the first paragraph of my original message:

“Dear Steave,
I am a licensed clinical social worker. I work for the State and many of my colleagues are doctors. You are not getting sympathy from me. The doctors I work with have a great quality of life. They have salaries in the 6 didgets and great benefits. The doctors live in big, beautiful homes; they drive new cars; their kids go to private schools and they take their family on trips with all their paid vacation time.”

And you need to look at what you wrote. I have worked with plenty of people who do not pay taxes who have needed the police and/or fire department. How come you think that only those who pay taxes benefit from the police and fire department? They respond when there is an emergency call regardless of the persons ability to pay. They don’t check to see first if the person pays taxes (or pays insurance for police assistance/ firemen assistance.
Amy

I think that overall, your thinking is displaying an attitude of envy. In our system, what draws people to work is money. Do you think that a trash collector would stand on a smelly truck in pouring rain, freesing cold, if he didn’t get paid?

In our society, no one would go through the years of schooling, the years of repaying student loans, years of insane shifts, for nothing. Why should they not be compensated according to the risk they took when they invested so much into their education? Yes, they live in nice houses. Some send their children to private schools. But that is part of the reason they did what they did. And that is the way our society is set up: You do this that and the other, and you will get a b and c.

Sure, some of them were motivated by altruism, but could they have afforded to do what they did for altruistic reasons? No. Most of them work very hard, many hours aside from their office hours; they run a business and employ other people; and they provide an important service.

if it weren’t for rich people, there are a lot of things you wouldn’t have, including a computer on which to write to all of us. How much have you put into Bill Gates’ pocket ad why don’t you complain about his pocketbook?

 

[Steave]

Steave, I saw this and responded when you wrote me privately. I didn’t know you were posting it on line. Why did you write me privately and then only post your comment on the thread?
Steave, I challenge you to find a doctor who makes only $75 a year. And you are welcome to try to find a doctor working in a country that has a socialized health care system. I am sure you still won’t find a doctor who makes only $75 a year. Your challenge is ridiculous and pointless. And your tone is arrogant. Amy

I Could care less what my “Tone” is I made my point,

75$ a year is what an above average ghanain citezen makes, it tends to be a dollar a week last time I checked,

You think doctors make to much, and if they loose a little then its ok, they still live a life nicer than me.

What my challenege does to you is explains “realitivity” its realitive what you make doctors, hedgefund CEO’s its all realitive.

The way people who think like you have voted continue to slash doctors pay, continued to reaise mal-practice, and the doctors have a right to dignity, they have rights like you do, and like I do.

Realtivly speaking if you were still making lets say, 8,000 a year, an african adult would say you were abunduntly rich,
The same way you point at doctors who make more like 90,000 dollars a year and say thats realtivly rich.

Doctors salary has been slashed and slashed, they cannot form uninions, no tort reform across the U.s, still get bullyed by the gov. and insurance companies.

The reason I dont want socialized healthcareis because the gov. has no bussiness making my medical descions with my doctor period.

Money is a complete bonus to most doctors, they love to take care of people, they just deserve the same rights as everyone

 

[Steave]

I think that overall, your thinking is displaying an attitude of envy. In our system, what draws people to work is money. Do you think that a trash collector would stand on a smelly truck in pouring rain, freesing cold, if he didn’t get paid?

In our society, no one would go through the years of schooling, the years of repaying student loans, years of insane shifts, for nothing. Why should they not be compensated according to the risk they took when they invested so much into their education? Yes, they live in nice houses. Some send their children to private schools. But that is part of the reason they did what they did. And that is the way our society is set up: You do this that and the other, and you will get a b and c.

Sure, some of them were motivated by altruism, but could they have afforded to do what they did for altruistic reasons? No. Most of them work very hard, many hours aside from their office hours; they run a business and employ other people; and they provide an important service.

if it weren’t for rich people, there are a lot of things you wouldn’t have, including a computer on which to write to all of us. How much have you put into Bill Gates’ pocket ad why don’t you complain about his pocketbook?

Great statement completly agree

 

[wabrams]

Steave, I challenge you to find a doctor who makes only $75 a year. And you are welcome to try to find a doctor working in a country that has a socialized health care system. I am sure you still won’t find a doctor who makes only $75 a year. Your challenge is ridiculous and pointless. And your tone is arrogant. Amy

Doctor’s in the military make less than $75k/year. Also thought this was an interesting comment in this blog.

 

[Steave]

*Some in Congress believe that the entire health care problem would be solved if doctors would “accept” salaries of $75,000 per year. Let’s examine this figure to see if it is reasonable.

First, what do people make in other fields, on average?

Call center analyst: $36,000


Admitting director for a hospital: $80,000


Retail store detective: $35,000


Bricklayer: $70,000


Risk Manager: $120,000


Appraiser, residential: $36,000


Advertising Account Exec: $70,000

So I suppose that the congressman believes that his personal physician’s worth lies somewhere between his bricklayer and the admitting director of his local hospital.

Perhaps until he gets chest pain or shortness of breath or renal colic or a fracture or an elevated PSA .

Now what does it cost to become a bricklayer? Nothing. Bricklayers do apprenticeships.

What does it cost to become a hospital admitting director? The price of a college degree at a state school.

How about a doctor? $250,000, and 12 years minimum of training.

I don’t know, but I just don’t see it. $75,000! Am I nuts or is that unreasonable.

Thanks,

The IU.*

Taken from the blog

Im not looking for a doctor who works for 75$ a year, Im telling you that there are people out there who think your filthy rich,
And rich is a very realtive term, Like tall, 6’2 is tall to some but in the nba your in the bottom 1%.

Its not about being rich its just compensation

 

[LittleSoldier]

According to the current administration 47 million people do not have access to coverage. So either Obama is lying…"

Obama lie?



Sorry, off-topic; I just couldn’t resist.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Just to make a little correction, the only people who are licensed as anesthesiologists are anesthesiologists, which are MD’s. What you are talking about is a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist, who work under the MD’s license, but have alot of autonomy. I like them, too. I work with them from time to time and my bbest friend’s wife is one.

Thank you for your clarification; I appreciate it.

I have had two surgeries under their care and I admit I was a little frightened at first, but there were no problems at all.

 

[LittleSoldier]

*Some in Congress believe that the entire health care problem would be solved if doctors would “accept” salaries of $75,000 per year. Let’s examine this figure to see if it is reasonable.

First, what do people make in other fields, on average?

Bricklayer: $70,000*

This is a joke, right? You can’t be serious here.

 

[St_Francis]

*Some in Congress believe that the entire health care problem would be solved if doctors would “accept” salaries of $75,000 per year. Let’s examine this figure to see if it is reasonable.

First, what do people make in other fields, on average?

…

Now what does it cost to become a bricklayer? Nothing. Bricklayers do apprenticeships.

What does it cost to become a hospital admitting director? The price of a college degree at a state school.

How about a doctor? $250,000, and 12 years minimum of training.

I don’t know, but I just don’t see it. $75,000! Am I nuts or is that unreasonable…*

Oh, *this *is very interesting

According to this history of congressional pay, congressmen have not made $75K/year since *1986. * Moreover, that rate lasted exactly *one month, *then they *voted themselves *a $12,100 raise!!! So it is quite clear that they have not thought that $75K is an appropriate amount of money for *themselves *for almost 30 years.

And they have not made $125K since *1991. *

And with the 2009 pay raise, they are now receiving $174K/year.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I think that overall, your thinking is displaying an attitude of envy. In our system, what draws people to work is money. Do you think that a trash collector would stand on a smelly truck in pouring rain, freesing cold, if he didn’t get paid?

In our society, no one would go through the years of schooling, the years of repaying student loans, years of insane shifts, for nothing. Why should they not be compensated according to the risk they took when they invested so much into their education? Yes, they live in nice houses. Some send their children to private schools. But that is part of the reason they did what they did. And that is the way our society is set up: You do this that and the other, and you will get a b and c.

Sure, some of them were motivated by altruism, but could they have afforded to do what they did for altruistic reasons? No. Most of them work very hard, many hours aside from their office hours; they run a business and employ other people; and they provide an important service.

if it weren’t for rich people, there are a lot of things you wouldn’t have, including a computer on which to write to all of us. How much have you put into Bill Gates’ pocket ad why don’t you complain about his pocketbook?

I am going to stand up for Amy, here. She is entirely correct. You are not talking about rich doctors anymore - you are talking about “the rich.” There is a huge difference. If the reason a person becomes a doctor is about making lots of money there is a huge problem right there.

I personally know one physician who left a high-paying career in anaesthesiology to become a “pain doctor.” Not only did he give up a lot of money, he is also being harassed by the federal government for “daring” to prescribe opiates for people in severe, chronic pain. Like me.

He did it out of love for his patients.

Physicians today rarely take the Hippocratic Oath. Maybe they should. It’s become apparent to me that far too many people become physicians just for the money.

I have two sisters. One is rich - she is a CFO. The other is lower middle class - she is a former English teacher who decided to stay home with her children while they are growing up. My “rich” sister (who I love very much) defended the huge amount of money she makes by telling my “poor” sister: “Well, you shouldn’t go into a field like teaching for the money. You should go into it because you love teaching.”

And that is true. So did my “rich” sister go into her field for the love of that field? No!! My “rich” sister went into her field for one reason (and she admits it): She wanted to make more money than our Dad could even comprehend. She loves money. She makes so much money that she (and her husband) tend to insult me by making little comments like, "Well <insert rich sister’s name> could retire right now but then we would have to live in a little house and that would be awful. I said, “A little house? Like mine?” Red faces. And the really sad thing is that they don’t consider my house to be a little house. They consider it to be a hovel. A “little” house to them would be a four-bedroom house with a pool and a jacuzzi in the back yard (which would have a view).

It’s unconscious in some cases but when people make that much money they can no longer relate to or understand those of us who are barely scraping by through no fault of our own.

BTW, I consider my “poor” sister to be much, much richer than my “rich” sister because she is doing what she loves and has a treasure of blessings from God and my “rich” sister spends so much time working to make even more money that she has no time to enjoy all the material goods she has acquired because of her wealth. And that is true poverty.

 

[St_Francis]

And as long as I am on this topic, Congress has its own lovely health plan. Notice they are not talking about extending their plan to us! And notice they are not talking about a single payer, because then they might have to put up with the same sort of thing that we have to put up with.

We don’t live in a democracy any more. They are separate from us–they do not have to follow the rules they make for us. They don’t have our health insurance; they do not fall under the EEOC; their spouses own companies who “get” the government contracts; and they don’t have to look at those unsightly windmills they want to foist on the rest of us.

And they wonder why some of us are upset? You’d think they’d be grateful that not more of us have figured it out.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I Could care less what my “Tone” is I made my point,

75$ a year is what an above average ghanain citezen makes, it tends to be a dollar a week last time I checked,

You think doctors make to much, and if they loose a little then its ok, they still live a life nicer than me.

What my challenege does to you is explains “realitivity” its realitive what you make doctors, hedgefund CEO’s its all realitive.

The way people who think like you have voted continue to slash doctors pay, continued to reaise mal-practice, and the doctors have a right to dignity, they have rights like you do, and like I do.

Realtivly speaking if you were still making lets say, 8,000 a year, an african adult would say you were abunduntly rich,
The same way you point at doctors who make more like 90,000 dollars a year and say thats realtivly rich.

Doctors salary has been slashed and slashed, they cannot form uninions, no tort reform across the U.s, still get bullyed by the gov. and insurance companies.

The reason I dont want socialized healthcareis because the gov. has no bussiness making my medical descions with my doctor period.

Money is a complete bonus to most doctors, they love to take care of people, they just deserve the same rights as everyone

Yes - they deserve the same rights as everyone else. I assume that means the right to health care. That right is denied to a lot of people in this country. And I don’t agree with people who state that emergency room services are provided whether or not a person can pay and that justifies it. Because yes, they treat them, and then those same hospitals force people into bankruptcy. I’m not talking about lazy people who just don’t want to get a job. I am talking about really poor people who have found themselves in their situation through no fault of their own.

A poor person might even be able to sock away a few bucks a month in savings. But that will disappear completely with one visit to an ER. On top of that, the hospital will continue to hound them. I know this is true because it has happened to people that I know and it has happened to me. Hospitals are supposed to set up payment plans and they do, but what if you just cannot pay even the minimum amount they are demanding? What do you do then? Declare bankruptcy? OK, so if you do declare bankruptcy what happens when you have to go to the ER the next time? You can only declare bankruptcy once every seven years (I’m not sure of what the actual time frame is; it has changed since I was forced into bankruptcy for medical reasons).

Poor people do not have money trees growing in their yards. Most of them don’t even have yards. They do not have enough money to receive medical care. They are being denied a right which everyone should have.

 

[Bluegoat]

It seems to me there is always a balance between offering people appropriate renemeration for their work, and expecting them to do it for love, or as part of a duty.

As far as doctors go, they can shell out a fair bit on education (though here at least university education is subsidized by government) and they also have a fair bit of responsibility.

But, practicing medicine has also always been about a kind of service to humanity and an important trust.

There have been some interesting changes in the ways doctors practice which suggest to me that the service aspect is being lost to some extent.

Doctors are much less likely to make house-calls, or have on call hours. Rural areas where these things may be necessary are having trouble getting doctors. Certian types of medicine which demand more are suffering, such as family practice, emergency rooms cannot find doctors to cover shifts.

There are other forces too - many young doctors actually want to be able to spend time with their families and take a break which is likely healthy, and given that few have a stay-at-home spouse to keep things running smoothly there, it is probably necessary.

But I don’t think it is all about that - it is about a loss of connection to the meaning of practicing medicine. I saw an OB clinic recently which only attended its patients births between 9 and 5. (90% of there patients gave birth between those hours which is scary.) There is some kind of terrible disconnect in the expectations that doctors seem to have of what it will mean to be doctors in many cases.

I don’t think this is caused by pay rates, but it does have a connection with how doctors percieve they should be remunerated and what they see their duty to b to others.